Are You Free From The Law?

[onlyme17]

Welcome to the forum

Thank you.
I hope I will be a plus and not a negative. :)

 

[onlyme17]

Did Yeshua/Jesus practice the Law of Moses? If yes, than *to be a Real Disciple you must follow Yeshua/Jesus and practice the Law of Moses.

Sorry , cannot agree with your *second comment above.

If this is so. Then why did Jesus come, lay down His life, and die?
What was the point?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry , cannot agree with your *second comment above.

If this is so. Then why did Jesus come, lay down His life, and die?
What was the point?

Amen..

If only we could get this message across..

 

[mjrhealth]

Sorry , cannot agree with your *second comment above.

If this is so. Then why did Jesus come, lay down His life, and die?
What was the point?

Amen

Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[Paul Christensen]

The 1 God is rejected by most Jews. They killed God's prophets, fiddled the death of the Messiah, and they killed Isaiah for example by sawing him in half. How barbaric is that!
.

Just for information:
The YHWH of the Old Testament became the God/man Jesus Christ, who died on the cross to bear the wrath of God and take upon Himself the penalty for our sin, and will be the One sitting on the great white throne of judgment to judge the living and the dead.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Does Faith exist where there is no Law?

The Ten Commandments are God's moral law. This law was given to show people how sinful they are. Paul says that the Law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Once a person has come to full trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross, the Law has done its work and has been fulfilled. Observing the Law does not save us because none of us can observe it because of our sinfulness. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

But we all will be judged from the great white throne according to God's moral law, because God is a God of justice as well as love. We will all be found guilty because "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". But those who have placed their trust in Christ through faith will have had the penalty for their sin placed on Christ and will not have to bear it themselves, so they will be set free from having to be sentenced to God's eternal prison without parole.

But if we try to be saved by observance to the law, we will be judged by the same law we try to keep and will be found guilty, and Christ will say, "You trusted in your ability to keep the law instead of fully trusting in Me and My finished work on Calvary, so you will have to bear the eternal penalty for not keeping the law, and I regretfully cannot help you, and so you will have to go into the everlasting prison without the possibility of parole".

So, if you are trusting in your ability to keep the Ten Commandments in order to be saved, then you are in terrible danger, like a man in a burning aircraft having to jump without a parachute, and thinking by flapping your arms you will land on the ground safely.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That my friend has to be one of the most dangerous beliefs in Christendom. Those people listed in one of the final books in Revelation, the ones left outside the kingdom... The liars, murderers, slavers, adulterers etc... You really think that they will be condemned, unless they are Christian? Seriously? I would really like to know your definition of what it means to be "Christian'.

We will all be found guilty of being liars, thieves, blasphemers, and adulterers at heart, because we have all done those things from our youth up, whether we are Christian or not. God is a God of justice and He will judge us according to the absolute standard of total observance of the Ten Commandments without fault.

On your own in your own strength, correct. But you underestimate the power of God.

But God's justice is greater than His power. His power is limited by His justice and His moral law. He may have the power to set us free from the penalty of the judgment, but He will be legally bound to sentence us to bear the penalty for our sin.

But Jesus did not finish His work at Calvary did He? Certainly He finished one aspect of His work, but what if His work as High Priest which began after His ascension? What affect in the lives of His followers do you think Christ has in His ministry as Mediator... Intercessor... Deliverer... Exemplar.... Provider... Physician... Sanctifier?

When Jesus cried out, "It is finished - the debt has been paid!" That means that for those who believe in and put their trust in Him, He has born the eternal wrath of God and penalty for their sin.

lSo ong as His people are still here on Earth, so will we need His help... His strength... His direction... His encouragement... His gifts... His Spirit. No, His work is not yet finished.

What you are describing here is the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in those who are already saved by the grace of God through their faith. These are the works that God has ordained for them and are worked in the believer through the Holy Spirit in them.

If you think that the work on the cross was not totally finished, and that you have to add good deeds to your faith in order to be pardoned at the judgment, let me say to you that you won't! You will be treated as a worker of iniquity because you are trying to work your own pardon instead of trusting Christ to have taken the penalty for your sin upon Himself in the three hours He hung on the cross.

 

[DNB]

That my friend has to be one of the most dangerous beliefs in Christendom. Those people listed in one of the final books in Revelation, the ones left outside the kingdom... The liars, murderers, slavers, adulterers etc... You really think that they will be condemned, unless they are Christian? Seriously? I would really like to know your definition of what it means to be "Christian'.


On your own in your own strength, correct. But you underestimate the power of God.

But Jesus did not finish His work at Calvary did He? Certainly He finished one aspect of His work, but what if His work as High Priest which began after His ascension? What affect in the lives of His followers do you think Christ has in His ministry as Mediator... Intercessor... Deliverer... Exemplar.... Provider... Physician... Sanctifier?
lSo ong as His people are still here on Earth, so will we need His help... His strength... His direction... His encouragement... His gifts... His Spirit. No, His work is not yet finished.

What i said was in context BL2, i made 3 statements trying to address what he was talking about.
One of the points was that Christ saves sinners. You heard me say that in context to two other points, about how sinning can also disqualify one from redemption.
What else do you need to hear, in order to understand what I was expressing about salvation?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Does Faith exist where there is no Law?

The function of the Law is to point us to Christ. The Law cannot save us because we can't keep it as required. Jesus Christ is the only One who can free us from the wrath of God and the penalty for our failure to keep God's Law.

 

[onlyme17]

But we all will be judged from the great white throne according to God's moral law, because God is a God of justice as well as love. We will all be found guilty because "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". But those who have placed their trust in Christ through faith will have had the penalty for their sin placed on Christ and will not have to bear it themselves, so they will be set free from having to be sentenced to God's eternal prison without parole.

Okay, just wanted to say that I don't see that at all in Revelation 20. ( sorry ) The unsaved will stand before the great white throne, not Christians.
Christian are before the Judgment seat of Christ...where our works will be tried by fire ...gold, silver precious stones, or wood hay or stubble.

That is what I find in Revelation...

 

[Paul Christensen]

Okay, just wanted to say that I don't see that at all in Revelation 20. ( sorry ) The unsaved will stand before the great white throne, not Christians.
Christian are before the Judgment seat of Christ...where our works will be tried by fire ...gold, silver precious stones, or wood hay or stubble.

That is what I find in Revelation...

Well, because Scripture interprets Scripture, you have to look at all the Biblical references about the judgment and how we are going to be judged.

Also, we have to realise that the Father is an invisible Spirit and no one has ever been able to see Him, so we can only conclude that the God who appeared in the Old Testament was actually the pre-incarnate Jesus. We get a clue from the experience of the three men in the fire, where they were joined by a fourth who was seen to be the "son of God".

So, the God who identified Himself to Moses as "I AM" is the same God who said, "Before Abraham was, I AM", and the same God who said "I AM" to the mob who came to arrest Him causing them all to fall backwards.

So the Person who will be sitting on the great white throne will be the glorified Jesus, judging all people, and that is where the sheep will be divided from the goats.

This in line with "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment", and "We must all give an account to God". So, the judgment seat of Christ is the great while throne judgment. The difference will be that when we as Christian believers come up for judgment and found guilty for our failure to keep the Ten Commandments, Christ will say, "You are pardoned, because I took the penalty for your sin on the cross with Me, and your name is in the book of life".

It is at the great white throne judgment that the books will be opened, including the book of life, and those whose names are found in the book of life will receive the pardon and be set free from the sentence of incarceration in God's eternal prison without parole.

 

[Cooper]

Just for information:
The YHWH of the Old Testament became the God/man Jesus Christ, who died on the cross to bear the wrath of God and take upon Himself the penalty for our sin, and will be the One sitting on the great white throne of judgment to judge the living and the dead.

Jesus told the Jews their father was the devil and here they are at worship under Moses. LINK
.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jesus told the Jews their father was the devil and here they are at worship under Moses. LINK
.

If you examine why Jesus said that, you will see that they professed to worship under Moses, but their lives didn't match their profession. They claimed that Abraham was their father, but they were not following Abraham's example of faith and devotion in their hearts to God. Therefore, because they were doing the works of the flesh, they were showing that their father, whose example they were following in their actions, is the devil. But Jesus was talking in general terms, knowing that there were individuals who were living through heart-faith in God, thereby following Abraham's faith.

 

[Cooper]

Well, because Scripture interprets Scripture, you have to look at all the Biblical references about the judgment and how we are going to be judged.

Also, we have to realise that the Father is an invisible Spirit and no one has ever been able to see Him, so we can only conclude that the God who appeared in the Old Testament was actually the pre-incarnate Jesus. We get a clue from the experience of the three men in the fire, where they were joined by a fourth who was seen to be the "son of God".

So, the God who identified Himself to Moses as "I AM" is the same God who said, "Before Abraham was, I AM", and the same God who said "I AM" to the mob who came to arrest Him causing them all to fall backwards.

So the Person who will be sitting on the great white throne will be the glorified Jesus, judging all people, and that is where the sheep will be divided from the goats.

This in line with "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment", and "We must all give an account to God". So, the judgment seat of Christ is the great while throne judgment. The difference will be that when we as Christian believers come up for judgment and found guilty for our failure to keep the Ten Commandments, Christ will say, "You are pardoned, because I took the penalty for your sin on the cross with Me, and your name is in the book of life".

It is at the great white throne judgment that the books will be opened, including the book of life, and those whose names are found in the book of life will receive the pardon and be set free from the sentence of incarceration in God's eternal prison without parole.

The mob did not follow the I AM or they would have known Jesus.
.

 

[Cooper]

If you examine why Jesus said that, you will see that they professed to worship under Moses, but their lives didn't match their profession. They claimed that Abraham was their father, but they were not following Abraham's example of faith and devotion in their hearts to God. Therefore, because they were doing the works of the flesh, they were showing that their father, whose example they were following in their actions, is the devil. But Jesus was talking in general terms, knowing that there were individuals who were living through heart-faith in God, thereby following Abraham's faith.

You lost my confidence when you tried to shift Easter.
.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You lost my confidence when you tried to shift Easter.
.

Huh?
When did I shift Easter? It is still on the same date this year!

 

[Cooper]

Huh?
When did I shift Easter? It is still on the same date this year!

When you TRIED to shift Good Friday to Thursday and your pal tried to shift resurrection day to Saturday.

Back to subject, the Jews killed God's prophets and in the New Testament they had Jesus crucified, and killed the disciples horribly. Jesus told the Jews in John 8:44 their father was the devil.

Please do not tell me the Jews worship my God and Father. Go to any synagogue and it is clear they do not.
.

 

[Paul Christensen]

When you TRIED to shift Good Friday to Thursday and your pal tried to have Christ rise from the dead on Saturday.
.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Silly me for taking the three days and three nights stated in the gospels literally!

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, they are beneficial, kinda like going to the gym is, but not a prerequisite of salvation per John 3:5, Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 etc.

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion from what I posted, maybe it appears that I'm suggesting it's a prerequisite, but nothing could be further from the truther.

 

[Waiting on him]

The function of the Law is to point us to Christ. The Law cannot save us because we can't keep it as required. Jesus Christ is the only One who can free us from the wrath of God and the penalty for our failure to keep God's Law.

So you are also Jewish?