Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So, if Saturday is labelled as the observance of the pagan god Saturn, so you are setting aside Saturday as an unalterable requirement, to worship that god as well?

BS

 

[Paul Christensen]

BS

It was a joke!
If you want to observe Saturday as your Sabbath, who is there to judge you for it? Go ahead!
As for me, I am retired and so every day is a day of rest for me, including Saturday, and I have often attended Saturday Christian conferences and to be honest, enjoyed them more often than the Sunday services in my church which were more formalised.

But what I am opposed to are those who say that those who don't slavishly observe Saturday as the legal day of worship are going to hell, or that they are further away from God than those who do. Those are like the Pharisees who criticised the disciples for picking ears of corn and eating them on the Sabbath, and the man who was healed of his disability after 30 years and took up his bed mat and carried it on the Sabbath. Jesus said that the Sabbath was there for our benefit, not for us to be enslaved by it.

 

[OzSpen]

So you are saying the Ten Commandments are done away with, so are we free to steal, murder and commit adultery, I see a problem with that way of thinking.

Matthew 19:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Which of the 10 commandments is not found in the NT?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Which of the 10 commandments is not found in the NT?

At the judgment, we will be judged according to our observance of God's moral law, which is found in the Ten Commandments, and we will be found guilty.

Those who will have their names in the book of life will be those who have put their full faith and trust in Christ's finished work on the cross of Calvary. Christ has fulfilled the Ten Commandments for those believers in that He has taken the penalty for our failure to keep them.

But, as believers, we are to turn away from the works of the flesh which violate God's moral law and to conduct ourselves according to the fruit of the Spirit which are consistent with observance of God's moral law from the heart. A genuine convert to Christ will hate sin, especially in himself, and will love and strongly desire holiness. This is not the basis for salvation and having one's name in the book of life, but is evidence of it.

When we present the gospel to the unsaved, we need to show them that they are breaking the Ten Commandments and therefore are in danger of being found guilty in the judgement and sentenced to hell. If we don't include that, we are presenting a partial gospel and doing them a tragic disservice by giving them the wrong impression of why Jesus came and died on the cross. This is why we have so many easy-believers and liberal religious professors of Christianity, who, to their horror, may not survive the judgment.

If we are in an airplane about to crash and need our parachute to jump safely, we need to put it on completely and strap it securely on to our body. If we just put it half on, it may not stay with our body when we jump out of the plane and we will crash into the ground on our face with the unopened parachute hitting the ground beside us.

We cannot see the gospel as being good news for us until we are convinced of the bad news about us first.

 

[mjrhealth]

we will be judged according to our observance of God's moral law, which is found in the Ten Commandments, and we will be found guilty.

How can one be "free" from the law, yet still be judged by the very same law they have being set free from, may as well be SDA

 

[Huperetes]

If the Sabbath was abolished, there would be many verses and much text to show it, yet there is none. The apostles would have had many discussions and the councils at Jerusalem would have written at least one with a determination of it being abolished and yet there is nothing.

If sabbath keeping was as important as some seem to believe then we would have commands concerning it all through the new testament. Yet we find ZERO places where sabbath keeping is a demand God has placed on the New Testament church. Quite the contrary..we find places where keeping any certain day is arbitrary:

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

And here:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We can see from scripture that sabbath keeping is not a new testament requirement. It is not considered a necessary thing:

Ac 15:28-29
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

[Paul Christensen]

How can one be "free" from the law, yet still be judged by the very same law they have being set free from, may as well be SDA

We are never free from God's moral law at any time, although we are free from the legal requirements of the external rules of the Mosaic Law. We will be judged according to God's moral law (the Ten Commandments), and found guilty, because "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

But, those who have put their faith and trust in Christ, who paid the full debt of sin and took the eternal penalty of it upon Himself, will have their names in the book of life and, although found guilty, will receive God's pardon.

Unless you realise that because you have broken the Ten Commandments and always will until the day you die, you remain a sinner in your mortal body. This is why you have to die, because "the wages of sin is death". The judgment will be on the basis of what you have done while in your mortal body, and because all of us will be proved to have been lying, thieving, blaspheming, adulterers at heart, we will be found guilty, and it will only be our total trust and faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross that will show our names in the book of life.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If sabbath keeping was as important as some seem to believe then we would have commands concerning it all through the new testament. Yet we find ZERO places where sabbath keeping is a demand God has placed on the New Testament church. Quite the contrary..we find places where keeping any certain day is arbitrary:

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

And here:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We can see from scripture that sabbath keeping is not a new testament requirement. It is not considered a necessary thing:

Ac 15:28-29
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

But the Gentiles knew nothing about observing a Sabbath day, and if you quoted these Scriptures to an unsaved Gentile, they would respond with, "What sort of stupid stuff is this?"

 

[Joseph77]

But the Gentiles knew nothing about observing a Sabbath day, and if you quoted these Scriptures to an unsaved Gentile, they would respond with, "What sort of stupid stuff is this?"

Mistaking the topic/subject in Romans 14:5 as if it was referring to Shabbat is very very common, even amongst churches/ Christians/ scholars....

Refer instead to where it is written that the TORAH is read every Shabbat.... (for both Jews and those gentiles who the Jews considered Godly and/or Righteous) ....

 

[mjrhealth]

although found guilty,

Should I repeat myself, how can one be judged by a law that they are free from, and if they are free how can they than be found guilty,

Joh_8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Mistaking the topic/subject in Romans 14:5 as if it was referring to Shabbat is very very common, even amongst churches/ Christians/ scholars....

Refer instead to where it is written that the TORAH is read every Shabbat.... (for both Jews and those gentiles who the Jews considered Godly and/or Righteous) ....

I wasn't referring to Jews and Gentile God Fearers who were aware of the Jewish Scriptures. I was referring to pagan Gentiles who had no contact with Jews or their Scriptures.

 

[Joseph77]

if they are free how can they than be found guilty,

How are those found guilty, and left without any sacrifice for their sins, in the NT ?

(The ones who trampled underfoot the grace of God, after tasting of the power of the heavenlies)

 

[Joseph77]

I wasn't referring to Jews and Gentile God Fearers who were aware of the Jewish Scriptures. I was referring to pagan Gentiles who had no contact with Jews or their Scriptures.

No worries.

The gentiles often had access to synagogues/ etc/ and listened to the TORAH on Shabbat every week. (Remember Cornelius? He even built one or more synagogues for the Jews, and he was considered by them to be a righteous man)

Not all did. No. But how many references to them are there doing so in the NT (and even perhaps in the OT) ?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Should I repeat myself, how can one be judged by a law that they are free from, and if they are free how can they than be found guilty,

Joh_8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Because we are not free from God's moral law at any time. We are free from having to endure God's wrath and the penalty for our continued failure to observe God's moral law. When Paul is saying that we are free from the Law, he is talking about the Mosaic Law. He was not advocating lawlessness.

If you are free from the law, does that mean that you can grab hold of a woman and rape her, or that you can be a pedaphile, or have a collection of child pornography? If you, as a Christian, are free from the law, then you can do those things and escape any penalty for them.

When I worked for the District Court, a Christian defendant who was charged with a serious crime, told the judge, in his defence, that "it is all under the blood". What do you think the judge said in response to that? If you were the judge and a man came before you charged with raping three women and cutting their throats, and he said that he has since become a Christian and now it is all under the blood, how would you respond to him?

Actually, lawlessness is a work of the flesh, and no lawless person will inherit the kingdom of God, so how does that compute with your assertion that we are not subject to the law?

 

[Paul Christensen]

How are those found guilty, and left without any sacrifice for their sins, in the NT ?

(The ones who trampled underfoot the grace of God, after tasting of the power of the heavenlies)

Yep! Only those who have put their full faith and trust in Christ for their salvation, and turned away from the works of the flesh as demonstration of their faith, and have kept running the race to the end, will find their names in the book of life.

 

[mjrhealth]

Because we are not free from God's moral law at any time.

If we are not free than Christ died for nothing, and our faith has no basis and everything Christ did was pointless.

You cannot tell a man he is free than condemn and judge him by the very same law he was set free from. That would make God two faced and a hypocrit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No worries.

The gentiles often had access to synagogues/ etc/ and listened to the TORAH on Shabbat every week. (Remember Cornelius? He even built one or more synagogues for the Jews, and he was considered by them to be a righteous man)

Not all did. No. But how many references to them are there doing so in the NT (and even perhaps in the OT) ?

Well, it said about Cornelius that he feared God, and so he was aware of the Old Testament and most surely studied it, and so he was able to believe the angel who told him to contact Peter to come to him and share the gospel.

But many of the Gentiles whom Paul preached to were not in any way connected with the Jewish faith and so, he came from Genesis 1 (although he didn't directly quote it from the Scriptures) as the starting point for them, and then progressed to this Creator God sending His own Son to die on the cross for their sins and to be resurrected to give them eternal life.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If we are not free than Christ died for nothing, and our faith has no basis and everything Christ did was pointless.

You cannot tell a man he is free than condemn and judge him by the very same law he was set free from. That would make God two faced and a hypocrit.

You must understand that we are never free from God's moral law, in the same way that we are always subject to our civil laws. God's standards remain the foundation of our lives before and after conversion to Christ. We are not lawless.

What we are free from through Christ is the wrath of God and the penalty for our failure to keep God's moral law.

At the judgment, we will certainly be judged guilty for failing to keep God's moral law, but we will be set free from the penalty of incarceration in God's eternal prison without parole (hell).

That's what we are set free from, not from God's moral law itself. As part of our developing sanctification, we seek to abide by God's moral law, and often plead for strength from the Holy Spirit to do so when we are under severe temptation.

 

[mjrhealth]

You must understand that we are never free from God's moral law, in the same way that we are always subject to our civil laws. God's standards remain the foundation of our lives before and after conversion to Christ. We are not lawless.

We are free in Gods love, it is by His love we shall live, if we walk in love than what issue will we have. We are either free or we are not. Which is it... or is Christ lying

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

[Paul Christensen]

We are free in Gods love, it is by His love we shall live, if we walk in love than what issue will we have. We are either free or we are not. Which is it... or is Christ lying

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

You are not listening, are you...
Just repeating your assertion doesn't make it true.

If you are promoting on this forum that Christian believers are free from God's moral law, to observe it, then you are supporting rape, murder, pornography, abortion, theft, lying, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, blasphemy, and other forms of lawlessness by Christian believers.

What you are saying that professing Christian believers can do all these things and not receive a penalty, either in this life or the next. Then what about Paul saying that those who do the works of the flesh as listed in Galatians 5 will not inherit the kingdom of God, and that if Christian believers live in the Spirit they should walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

And what about the Scripture that says that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit? Doesn't that mean that a Christian believer who is not subject to God's moral law and lives as a lawless person, is under condemnation and therefore is not free from the penalty for his sinful lifestyle?

What if your teaching on this forum and elsewhere causes a weaker brother or sister to think that they can engage in fornication, lying, stealing, blasphemy and to get away with those things and not come under condemnation from God for continuing in their sins?

Seeing that God calls us to account for what we teach others, and others fall into sin and condemnation because of our teaching, wouldn't God have something to say about that?