Is Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday.

[101G]

They should be failed or booed or both and shown the exit.

We don't have to do that what if God booded us and threw us off his stage? scripture, Matthew 18:15 "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother".

Galatians 6:1 "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted".

never give up on anyone help if you can, because God is in control of all of us.

PICJAG.

 

[mjrhealth]

You are not listening, are you...
Just repeating your assertion doesn't make it true.

If you are promoting on this forum that Christian believers are free from God's moral law, to observe it, then you are supporting rape, murder, pornography, abortion, theft, lying, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, blasphemy, and other forms of lawlessness by Christian believers.

What you are saying that professing Christian believers can do all these things and not receive a penalty, either in this life or the next. Then what about Paul saying that those who do the works of the flesh as listed in Galatians 5 will not inherit the kingdom of God, and that if Christian believers live in the Spirit they should walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

And what about the Scripture that says that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit? Doesn't that mean that a Christian believer who is not subject to God's moral law and lives as a lawless person, is under condemnation and therefore is not free from the penalty for his sinful lifestyle?

What if your teaching on this forum and elsewhere causes a weaker brother or sister to think that they can engage in fornication, lying, stealing, blasphemy and to get away with those things and not come under condemnation from God for continuing in their sins?

Seeing that God calls us to account for what we teach others, and others fall into sin and condemnation because of our teaching, wouldn't God have something to say about that?

But you see now you have just put everyone under condemnation, everyone sins, we all sin, no one will lever not sin while in the flesh, if we are all guilty than we are not free, if we walk with guilt we walk without faith in the works that Christ has done. If a man says he is a christian than proceeds to murder his brother than he was probably never in Christ, but even grace allows for that.

Grace is not the freedom to sin, it is the freedom to be the imperfect person you are. No one is perfect not even you, that is why we have grace, as for the law, if you want to be judged by that, than you are already dead in your sins.

Theer is no grace for law keepers.

 

[Paul Christensen]

But you see now you have just put everyone under condemnation, everyone sins, we all sin, no one will lever not sin while in the flesh, if we are all guilty than we are not free, if we walk with guilt we walk without faith in the works that Christ has done. If a man says he is a christian than proceeds to murder his brother than he was probably never in Christ, but even grace allows for that.

Grace is not the freedom to sin, it is the freedom to be the imperfect person you are. No one is perfect not even you, that is why we have grace, as for the law, if you want to be judged by that, than you are already dead in your sins.

Theer is no grace for law keepers.

Read my post in the "are we free from the law" thread and that will explain our freedom in Christ.

 

[Joseph77]

You are not listening, are you...
Just repeating your assertion doesn't make it true.

If you are promoting on this forum that Christian believers are free from God's moral law, to observe it, then you are supporting rape, murder, pornography, abortion, theft, lying, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, blasphemy, and other forms of lawlessness by Christian believers.

What you are saying that professing Christian believers can do all these things and not receive a penalty, either in this life or the next. Then what about Paul saying that those who do the works of the flesh as listed in Galatians 5 will not inherit the kingdom of God, and that if Christian believers live in the Spirit they should walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

And what about the Scripture that says that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit? Doesn't that mean that a Christian believer who is not subject to God's moral law and lives as a lawless person, is under condemnation and therefore is not free from the penalty for his sinful lifestyle?

What if your teaching on this forum and elsewhere causes a weaker brother or sister to think that they can engage in fornication, lying, stealing, blasphemy and to get away with those things and not come under condemnation from God for continuing in their sins?

Seeing that God calls us to account for what we teach others, and others fall into sin and condemnation because of our teaching, wouldn't God have something to say about that?

The false gospel is much bigger than the true gospel in this world.
People have a lot of friends, arm in arm, going that way. They don't want, seek, or need the truth to distract them, apparently. (they don't listen , they cannot, according to all Scripture, as it is; for a few, prayer might bring about a change for better, but not against their will)

 

[Joseph77]

Read my post in the "are we free from the law" thread and that will explain our freedom in Christ.

Jesus always kept TORAH, Jesus was and is a law abiding , law keeper, as He ALWAYS DOES HIS FATHER'S WILL, without sin, and without iniquity.

Those who HEAR HIS VOICE, follow JESUS wherever HE GOES..... (and DO what the Father Says to DO, in perfect harmony with TORAH and all of His Word, Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus - Jesus IS the SHEPHERD, so we follow HIM, and not the transgressors or any other voice besides JESUS ! )

 

[Brakelite]

I thought about this, and am sure that it doesn't mean exactly on a Saturday. It means that we work six days a week and rest on the seventh. Now, our labels for the days of the week come from observance to pagan gods. Monday stands for worship of the moon, I don't know what Tuesday is, Wednesday is observance of the god Woden, Thursday is for Thor, I don't know what Friday is, Saturday is worship of the god Saturn, Sunday is worship of the sun.

I am going to pick out this excerpt from your post because it encapsulates the problem Christians have with this topic. You have resorted to your own intellect to create an issue that doesn't exist. Sure, the days we use today are named after pagan gods. But to make a connection of that with the Ten Commandments is great stretch don't you think? God did not use pagan gods names in writing the fourth commandment. He was specific. Concise. He said the seventh day. Not the first, third, or any day you choose. He blessed one specific day and called it His Sabbath. It isn't a day we can do anything we like with. He doesn't give us leave to discard it, disregard it, dispense with it or misuse it. He doesn't leave us the option to choose our own day for our own convenience. And He hasn't removed the blessing, nor the sanctity, from the seventh day. And more so no-where in scripture is there any suggestion that He had called any other day, "the Lord's day". Jesus said He was the Lord of the Sabbath day. Any other day you may be lord of... You can do whatever you like on any other day of the week, and call them whatever you like, for He has given you those days in which you may complete your personal work, pleasure, play, but the seventh He has asked you, because the ten commandments are still valid and do not apply only to Jews, He has asked you and me to keep, continue to protect and honor, retain the Sabbath in holiness. The same holiness that He imbued it with at creation.
KJV Isaiah 58
Keep the Sabbath
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jesus always kept TORAH, Jesus was and is a law abiding , law keeper, as He ALWAYS DOES HIS FATHER'S WILL, without sin, and without iniquity.

Those who HEAR HIS VOICE, follow JESUS wherever HE GOES..... (and DO what the Father Says to DO, in perfect harmony with TORAH and all of His Word, Plan and Purpose in Christ Jesus - Jesus IS the SHEPHERD, so we follow HIM, and not the transgressors or any other voice besides JESUS ! )

Absolutely!

Jesus is God's moral law for us, so when we follow Him, we are following His observance of His Father's moral law. Paul says, "Be followers of me, as I am a follower of Christ". So, if Christ followed His Father's moral law, and Paul followed Christ, and we follow Paul as he followed Christ, then through Paul and Christ, we are following God's moral law, are we not?

 

[OzSpen]

At the judgment, we will be judged according to our observance of God's moral law, which is found in the Ten Commandments, and we will be found guilty.

Those who will have their names in the book of life will be those who have put their full faith and trust in Christ's finished work on the cross of Calvary. Christ has fulfilled the Ten Commandments for those believers in that He has taken the penalty for our failure to keep them.

But, as believers, we are to turn away from the works of the flesh which violate God's moral law and to conduct ourselves according to the fruit of the Spirit which are consistent with observance of God's moral law from the heart. A genuine convert to Christ will hate sin, especially in himself, and will love and strongly desire holiness. This is not the basis for salvation and having one's name in the book of life, but is evidence of it.

When we present the gospel to the unsaved, we need to show them that they are breaking the Ten Commandments and therefore are in danger of being found guilty in the judgement and sentenced to hell. If we don't include that, we are presenting a partial gospel and doing them a tragic disservice by giving them the wrong impression of why Jesus came and died on the cross. This is why we have so many easy-believers and liberal religious professors of Christianity, who, to their horror, may not survive the judgment.

If we are in an airplane about to crash and need our parachute to jump safely, we need to put it on completely and strap it securely on to our body. If we just put it half on, it may not stay with our body when we jump out of the plane and we will crash into the ground on our face with the unopened parachute hitting the ground beside us.

We cannot see the gospel as being good news for us until we are convinced of the bad news about us first.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Joseph77]

Absolutely!

Jesus is God's moral law for us, so when we follow Him, we are following His observance of His Father's moral law. Paul says, "Be followers of me, as I am a follower of Christ". So, if Christ followed His Father's moral law, and Paul followed Christ, and we follow Paul as he followed Christ, then through Paul and Christ, we are following God's moral law, are we not?

"We follow Jesus"
Just like the Ekklesia in ACTS, Ephesians, Philippians, etc .....
"FOLLOW JESUS"

 

[Paul Christensen]

You didn't answer my question.

Oh. So I didn't!

Okay, let's see which ones are quoted or reflected in the New Testament:
1. Loving God - yep. Jesus said it, and so did John.
2. Don't make idols - not loving God (as above)
3. Don't take the Lord's name in vain - using Jesus' name as a swear word - not loving God (as above).
4. Keep the Sabbath day - Christians do observe one day a week as a day of rest and worship.
5. Honor father and mother - Jesus said that we need to love others and do to them as we would have them do to us.
6. You shall not murder - murder is not loving our neighbor as Jesus said we should do, and it is listed as one of the works of the flesh in Galatians 5.
7. You shall not commit adultery - looking at someone with sexual desire is committing adultery from the heart, as Jesus said. Also listed as a work of the flesh that keeps a person out of the kingdom of God.
8. You shall not steal - this is failing to love our neighbor as ourselves, as Jesus said we should do.
9. You shall not lie - the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth, so that lying is not only failing to love our neighbor by deceiving him, but we are also behaving contrary to the Holy Spirit in us. Also, lying about someone else (bearing false witness) is stealing a person's reputation from them.
10. You shall not covet - being envious or jealous of someone's possessions or position, is coveting, and not loving our neighbor as ourselves.

How did I do?

 

[Brakelite]

We will all be found guilty of being liars, thieves, blasphemers, and adulterers at heart, because we have all done those things from our youth up, whether we are Christian or not.

In Daniel we are told that "judgement will be given in favor of the saints". Does that sound like being declared guilty to you?

But God's justice is greater than His power. His power is limited by His justice and His moral law. He may have the power to set us free from the penalty of the judgment, but He will be legally bound to sentence us to bear the penalty for our sin.

Jesus took the guilt and sentence of death upon Himself. But because we all die, that must be the second death Jesus accepted on our behalf. That was a legally conducted sentencing. We are now declared not guilty because all our sin was laid upon the Lamb, just as the Israelites laid their sins upon the burnt offering. But should we return to sin, what then? What did Jesus say of the pig returned to the mire... The dog returned to eat his own vomit?

When Jesus cried out, "It is finished - the debt has been paid!" That means that for those who believe in and put their trust in Him, He has born the eternal wrath of God and penalty for their sin.

Yes, He has. But does that conclude all the work He had to accomplish? Where would you be without the Resurrection,? Would your redemption be complete?

If you think that the work on the cross was not totally finished, and that you have to add good deeds to your faith in order to be pardoned at the judgment, let me say to you that you won't! You will be treated as a worker of iniquity because you are trying to work your own pardon instead of trusting Christ to have taken the penalty for your sin upon Himself in the three hours He hung on the cross

I didn't say anything about adding my good deeds to what Christ did at Calvary. But again, where would you be if Christ be not raised,? Would Christ's "finished work" be sufficient to see you ultimately saved? Where would you be without His sending the holy Spirit to convict you of sin? Where would you be without Christ's continuing ministry as High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary and the power granted us by grace through faith to overcome sin?

 

[Paul Christensen]

In Daniel we are told that "judgement will be given in favor of the saints". Does that sound like being declared guilty to you?

"Firstly we must view the verse from Daniel in its context:
“Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.

23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time. (Daniel 7:20-25).
This is talking about the coming of the Roman Empire that will be different to all the other preceding empires. It will be brutal empire that will view Christian believers as criminals deserving death. It was also the empire that completely crushed the Jewish nation. But the time will come when God will set the Roman empire judgment of God's people aside, and God will show His favourable judgment of His people through their faith in Christ.

This has nothing to do with the great white throne judgment where we all have to appear and give an account of our lives before God. It is more that God will display His favourable judgment of His own people in opposition to the negative judgment that the world heaps on them.

Jesus took the guilt and sentence of death upon Himself. But because we all die, that must be the second death Jesus accepted on our behalf. That was a legally conducted sentencing. We are now declared not guilty because all our sin was laid upon the Lamb, just as the Israelites laid their sins upon the burnt offering. But should we return to sin, what then? What did Jesus say of the pig returned to the mire... The dog returned to eat his own vomit?
Yes, He has. But does that conclude all the work He had to accomplish? Where would you be without the Resurrection,? Would your redemption be complete?

There is the aspect of "now" and "not yet". We have the title dead of our redemption in the promises of the Bible, but we will not come into the full possession of it until we are given our final pardon at the great white throne judgment seat.

It is the same as President Lincoln had the slave emancipation bill passed through the US Congress, but many, especially in the Southern States were not set free right away. It was still a number of years before most slaves were set free. So the bill of emancipation was their title deed that they were free in law, but not having had the full possession of their freedom yet.

I didn't say anything about adding my good deeds to what Christ did at Calvary. But again, where would you be if Christ be not raised,? Would Christ's "finished work" be sufficient to see you ultimately saved? Where would you be without His sending the holy Spirit to convict you of sin? Where would you be without Christ's continuing ministry as High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary and the power granted us by grace through faith to overcome sin?

The moment I gave my life to Christ as my Saviour upon the information given to me from the Bible that He paid the debt of my sin on the cross of Calvary, I had the title deed for my salvation, and I can say that "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed (my life and future) to Him against that day (the day of judgment)" (2 Timothy 1:12).
The continuing work of the Holy Spirit in me and the High Priesthood of Christ for me, is part of my developmental sanctification as I continue to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God. It is the evidence that I am saved, not that I am continuing to be saved as I go along. When I am found guilty at the judgment, I will be able to present my title deed, and will find that my name is written in the book of life, and I will receive a total pardon for my sins, not because I ever deserved it, but Christ paid my "fine" on the cross of Calvary. It was written there the moment I gave my life to Christ.

 

[Joseph77]

This is claimed by a lot of people , multitudes, on judgement day,
and they are told "bye"... by Jesus.... so there is something else to know.... (as revealed by the Father)

The moment I gave my life to Christ as my Saviour upon the information given to me from the Bible that He paid the debt of my sin on the cross of Calvary, I had the title deed for my salvation, and I can say that "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed (my life and future) to Him against that day (the day of judgment)" (2 Timothy 1:12).
The continuing work of the Holy Spirit in me and the High Priesthood of Christ for me, is part of my developmental sanctification as I continue to grow in grace and in the knowledge of God. It is the evidence that I am saved, not that I am continuing to be saved as I go along. When I am found guilty at the judgment, I will be able to present my title deed, and will find that my name is written in the book of life, and I will receive a total pardon for my sins, not because I ever deserved it, but Christ paid my "fine" on the cross of Calvary. It was written there the moment I gave my life to Christ.

===========================================================================

This is claimed by multitudes on earth, but not on judgment day. On that day, everyone sees the truth, and not everyone sees the truth in time for it to help them (i.e. before they die) ....

Seeing that I am retired, and that our country is in lockdown, every day has become a sabbath for me. Sometimes I lose track of what day of the week it is, so I am resting and being a couch potato every day of the week. That's what the sabbath rest is all about. Working six days and resting on the seventh.

Actually the actual Sabbath requirement is gone with the abolition of Judaism as the cutting edge of what God is doing. We now rest, through faith in Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, and if we decide to set one day apart for rest and worship, it actually doesn't matter what day of the week that might be.

 

[Paul Christensen]

This is claimed by a lot of people , multitudes, on judgement day,
and they are told "bye"... by Jesus.... so there is something else to know.... (as revealed by the Father)

===========================================================================

This is claimed by multitudes on earth, but not on judgment day. On that day, everyone sees the truth, and not everyone sees the truth in time for it to help them (i.e. before they die) ....

If you analyse what these rejected ones said to the Lord, you will see that it is all centred on what "we have done" in the Lord's name. It is all centred on self, and is an attempt to get the Lord to accept them because they have done good deeds, like prophesying in His name, casting out demons, and doing great works in His name. But in fact, they are there being judged for how they kept the Ten Commandments and their guilt is not taken away from them because of the good deeds they have done.

But if they had said, "We know we are guilty of sin, but we have put our trust and faith in Your promise that if we believed in Your finished work on the cross for us, we would be saved", then Jesus would have said, "Well done, good and faithful servants. Enter into the joy of your Lord."

 

[Joseph77]

If you analyse what these rejected ones said to the Lord, you will see that it is all centred on what "we have done" in the Lord's name. It is all centred on self, and is an attempt to get the Lord to accept them because they have done good deeds, like prophesying in His name, casting out demons, and doing great works in His name. But in fact, they are there being judged for how they kept the Ten Commandments and their guilt is not taken away from them because of the good deeds they have done.

But if they had said, "We know we are guilty of sin, but we have put our trust and faith in Your promise that if we believed in Your finished work on the cross for us, we would be saved", then Jesus would have said, "Well done, good and faithful servants. Enter into the joy of your Lord."

....
I think they BELIEVE that the Lord HAS accepted them - and that is what they were/are/ told by the deceivers also - they are told that they are accepted - no need to repent more, if they repented at all, and no need to seek the truth more, if they actually sought the truth at all once, but they did not find the truth, and they did not have Godly pain and Godly sorrow leading to (true) repentance, as written.

More tomorrow, possibly..... re: possibly , and NOT said on judgement day, but today : "we WERE guilty" .... very different from "we are guilty" , and best to look tomorrow in Scripture and see what is written - the truth of what God reveals in His Word....

 

[Paul Christensen]

....
I think they BELIEVE that the Lord HAS accepted them - and that is what they were/are/ told by the deceivers also - they are told that they are accepted - no need to repent more, if they repented at all, and no need to seek the truth more, if they actually sought the truth at all once, but they did not find the truth, and they did not have Godly pain and Godly sorrow leading to (true) repentance, as written.

More tomorrow, possibly..... re: possibly , and NOT said on judgement day, but today : "we WERE guilty" .... very different from "we are guilty" , and best to look tomorrow in Scripture and see what is written - the truth of what God reveals in His Word....

It is because we have already judged ourselves as being guilty of sin. Paul says that if we judge ourselves we will not be judged. What this means that when we stand before Christ in the judgment, He will acknowledge that we have already judged ourselves guilty of sin and are trusting in His finished work on Calvary for our pardon and salvation.

 

[Joseph77]

It is because we have already judged ourselves as being guilty of sin. Paul says that if we judge ourselves we will not be judged. What this means that when we stand before Christ in the judgment, He will acknowledge that we have already judged ourselves guilty of sin and are trusting in His finished work on Calvary for our pardon and salvation.

Will look tomorrow - see in Scripture, DO NOT WAIT FOR JUDGMENT DAY... see who is walking in union with Jesus in the Father already, IN SCRIPTURE, TODAY, in the FIRST CENTURY,
continually full of RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE, and JOY......
He ACKNOWLEDGES THIS TODAY... as written - it is seen, as written (though not by many, as written).

 

[Paul Christensen]

Will look tomorrow - see in Scripture, DO NOT WAIT FOR JUDGMENT DAY... see who is walking in union with Jesus in the Father already, IN SCRIPTURE, TODAY, in the FIRST CENTURY,
continually full of RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE, and JOY......
He ACKNOWLEDGES THIS TODAY... as written - it is seen, as written (though not by many, as written).

Although we will face the judgment, we have nothing to fear from it, because we have our title deed of our salvation through Christ, because He is faithful, He will honour it when we stand before Him on that day, and our names are already in the book of life, written there before the foundation of the world. That's why we rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.

A lot of my comment about the last judgment and how we all have to face it and acknowledge our guilt, is to show how we as Christians should witness the full gospel to the unsaved. They have to know that they will die and face the judgment, and consequently are in great danger, and need to be fully warned of the consequence of refusing to accept Christ's invitation to come to Him for mercy, grace and forgiveness.

The tragedy is that many receive Christ without knowing that they are bad people, ie: sinners, needing a Saviour. What they do is just to join a religious "club" and as long as life happens the way they want, all is rosy; but as soon as sickness, suffering, poverty, and persecution comes, they become discouraged because Christianity is not what they expected it to be, and so they go back into the world with disastrous consequences.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus is God's moral law for us, so when we follow Him, we are following His observance of His Father's moral law. Paul says, "Be followers of me, as I am a follower of Christ". So, if Christ followed His Father's moral law, and Paul followed Christ, and we follow Paul as he followed Christ, then through Paul and Christ, we are following God's moral law, are we not?

AMEN.

I wish I were a cartoonist, that I could draw a real picture of you now, dusting off your hands for gleeful self-satisfaction. Am I right? You see those little clouds of dust from your hands? The cartoonist would write in each, 'Sabbath'.