Are Protestants "saved? "
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
God can raise communities of true believers from the rocks if He so chooses.
Attempting to claim only one line of faith is the one God established is an exercise in futility when faced with God's omnipotence. If the original line goes astray, which it did, then God can, and did, use other means by which to reveal His love to mankind. There are Muslims today through dreams are finding Christ without the aid of any church. Do you reject them because they are not Catholic? There have been throughout history pockets of unreachable indigenous people who have found Christ without the help of man... Through angels... Through scripture... Through dreams and visions. Stop limiting God to your own narrow box of ritual sacramentalism. Let God be God.
As for protestantism, the reformers had every reason to protest. Error... Hypocrisy... Licentiousness... Dead faith... Permeated the church is the middle ages. They just objected to the sin and the wickedness that was ravishing the church if those times, and to a great extreme, still is. That individual churches sprang up as a result was not the fault of the reformers. The Catholic hierarchy refused to repent and murdered those protesters, persecuted their followers, burnt their homes, forbade their children to several generations from fellowship, confiscated their lands and property... And then Catholics today point to the numerous Protestant churches and blame them????
On another note, just as a reminder, it is true that Protestants, for example in England, executed Catholics. But ask yourself, why? Because my friend they were traitors. The cause of Catholicism in Britain and elsewhere including the United States has always been and always will be, not to share the good news of the gospel which in Catholic terms is unbiblical anyway but to bring those Nations under the political and religious authority of a foreign potentate. The pope. That sir is treason. And in most countries I am aware of is a capital offense. So those Catholics weren't executed because their were Catholic. No. They were executed because they were traitors. And is the sole reason why today there are laws against having Catholic Kings on British thrones. And why there is an underground warfare being waged from Rome against that law. It isn't religious discrimination. It is to protect religious freedom.
But I get it. It is very difficult and humbling for any Catholic to admit it even see this.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
If it did, then Jesus is shown a false prophet and all our hope is vain.
'the gates of hell will not prevail against it.'
Yea rather, it has filled the whole world as foretold long ago.
Peace be with you!
Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Standard response, and no more valid now than when it was first invented. Your entire defense is based on the assumption that the church that became headquartered in Rome during the fall of the empire was the same church that the apostles were the foundation of. To validate such a claim however is to invalidate the numerous church communities that resulted from apostolic missionary endeavor (and later their own missionary work) everywhere else apart from and independent of Roman papal authority.
How many times did Rome send priests to other corners of the world only to discover s thriving Christian Church already there? And if the Roman branch of Christianity fell, as it did, there were others who still held the mantle of truth and carried out their Christian duty faithfully and in accordance to scriptural authority. What of those churches? Irrelevant?
Jesus purified us from all unrighteousness. It is what the cross is for. When our sins are forgiven we are purified.
God purified the priests to make them Holy so they could enter the temple inner court through washing. We are washed by the blood of the lamb.
Hebrews talks about our consciences being cleansed. The reason you appear to not understand my response is because this has not happened to you. Knowing Jesus is an either you do or it is a grasping at straws.
Only we ourselves know the reality, but the intent, graciousness and love speaks louder. Thank you Jesus for your light and love. May we honour you in all we do and say till at last we are called home, Amen
Graciousness is a blessing.
Cause and effect, faith and salvation.
Do you deny this is the core of who we are?
Imputed righteousness is faith making us worthy of salvation.
The problem with interwoven belief, is if a false position is taken in one part, locked in tight, it all falls apart when the failure is hit.
The cornerstone is probably being born again, which again is founded on faith, but locked in time. But even here faith is essential. If you have no answer what are you?
I encourage while there is still light to believe Jesus and repent, walk in His ways and know His life in your heart.
Some have Christ as a surface skin, but are still lost, lonely and bitter in there hearts. I always have hope for all, but clearly some are truly lost and hard hearted. God bless you
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If it is conditional than it is not a gift..... it becomes a reward and therefore no longer free. When my sons says. dad can I have $10, i give it to him because he is my son, not because he earned it.
I have seen this fight many times and it always ends the same. Statements are made personally, and good sharing becomes conflict.
We believe different things but it is hoped open sharing can make it encouraging and engaging. But one phrase or provocation creates an apparent massive upset. In this way some forums get taken over, literally.
Once you know this approach, you know wolves are looking for victims. And we are no friends of such people. They are trapped in this cycle, thinking the world is black and white and they are charged to expose it. Lost souls with no exit door.
The apostles blessed when cursed, spoke truth when lied about, loved when hated, bared others sin and need following Christ's example. This is our example to follow as Christ's followers Amen.
By the way haters will read my words and say I am being self righteous. It grieves me to know they are so close to God's word but it does not dwell in there heart.
Ofcourse we all count ourselves as in the gospel, so our enemy are the lost and deluded. If we walk like the apostles with the fruit of the Spirit then my friends we know we are His, amen, thank you Jesus
Ofcourse we all count ourselves as in the gospel, so our enemy are the lost and deluded. If we walk like the apostles with the fruit of the Spirit then my friends we know we are His, amen, thank you Jesus
Unconditional gifting of salvation is fatalism or universalism.
The gospel hangs on free will and guilt for sin. Repentance is a change of direction, a choice, a path with God or staying in the world. If there is no choice in anything, determinism, then this conversation means nothing, learning has no affect and negligence does not exist. But that is foolish talk, and technology proves otherwise.
So salvation is both a gift and reward. Hard to grasp, but still true. We are chosen yet also choose. An expert is the best we have in a subject yet still fails and has more to learn.
Man wants single answers, but truth is more complicated and pragmatic.
If it a reward, than its not about Him its about us, and if it requires us to be good than His works are not enough, hard to believe, but christians are continually putting Him to shame and undermining His good works,
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
see it is not of ourselves.... not our work
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Though salvation is most assuredly conditional, (God's love is unconditional... Apocalyptic prophecy is unconditional... Most other prophecy is conditional... God's promises are conditional) I would hesitate to call salvation a reward. Though conditional, salvational isn't something we earn. But we must place ourselves, by our own choices, in a place to receive salvation. We cannot for example receive salvation in a state of mind that has no intention of ceasing in practicing any form of evil and sin.
I guess some people are not human, seems every time we speak of salvation there is always mens religious conditions added, all of a sudden we must be perfect, and all of a sudden it is no longer about Christ but all about you. Ye religion, keeps men in bondage, slaves to there religions. boasters of self, never letting the Good works of Christ stand in the way, of mens perfection.
Even speaks of that
2Ti_3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Some will never leave Egypt
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Sorry mate, but you've no idea what I'm talking about, and you're personal animosity against any established church is coloring your whole sense of biblical truth. Even Jesus said, "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand'. Now, try and convince me that salvation is offered to anyone who doesn't repent.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
We are told to,go out into the world and make disciples of all nations, the gates of hell is what try’s to keep us out of its domain, that is the purpose of a gate, a gate is not a weapon that you attack with you use it to protect yourself.
Jesus promised that when we go out, the gates of hell will not hold and we will enter their world to help rescue people out from its prisons. Like we were rescued
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You people and your silly accusations.
yes you got this right,
we are washed in spiritual water and made white as snow. It is the reason we will get to heaven.
so why are so many people teaching we purify ourselves by our works, and if we are not clean enough we will lose salvation and go to hell?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Forgive me, but did you not just say we are purified by the blood, why do you now seem to be saying it is not just the blood, but also our actions (works)
Oh I do, you want to make all men slaves to the law, its al you do, there was a reason why that other church is called. " the mother of al harlots". she has lots of children always trying to be prettier than mum.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Some times I think some forget the requirement of the law was perfection
Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”
confirmed by Paul in Gal 3
Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
This is Gods definition of good, of being pure, any thing which falls short places us under the curse of this law, which is death,
as James said, if we keep the entire law our whole lives and yet break one point, we are still cursed by the law as a sinner, and must suffer the same fate as murderers, isolators and adulterers. I must wonder if some do not comprehend or like this, and, maybe this is why they fight so hard to reject it, and say we love our sin and just want to excuse it, when in reality we just acknowledge our sin and see our true self as it relates to the glory of God,
which of course forces us to look to our hope in faith. eternal life, which God promised before time began, or we would lose hope and lose faith
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