Is this good for Christianity?

[Enoch111]

Okay. In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

Just like Wuhan virus was to kill at "a rapid pace". More Fake News. All these surveys and polls should be taken with a pound of salt.

1. The majority in any country will never be Christian, so polls means nothing.

2. Where there are apparent Christian majorities, that would be in name only.

3. Only God knows hearts, therefore only God knows who is a true Christian and who is a *professing* Christian.

3. Genuine Christians will always be a very small fraction of the total population.

5. There can be no "decline" in Christianity, since it is supernatural.

BOTTOM LINE: IGNORE ALL THE POLLS AND FOCUS ON THE BIBLE.

But if you prefer the Quran, declare your preference, and be done with it.

 

[Justadude]

Again: whose beliefs are you asking about here? Since they are so different in some aspects.

Asking what?

 

[Justadude]

Just like Wuhan virus was to kill at "a rapid pace". More Fake News.

What specifically is "fake"?

1. The majority in any country will never be Christian, so polls means nothing.

That makes no sense.

2. Where there are apparent Christian majorities, that would be in name only.

3. Only God knows hearts, therefore only God knows who is a true Christian and who is a *professing* Christian.

3. Genuine Christians will always be a very small fraction of the total population.

That doesn't translate over to Christians here, in other forums, or among Christian leaders. I see declarations and debates about who is and isn't a "true Christian" all the time.

5. There can be no "decline" in Christianity, since it is supernatural.

The decline is in the number of people in the US who self-identify as "Christian".

BOTTOM LINE: IGNORE ALL THE POLLS AND FOCUS ON THE BIBLE.

That's certainly your choice.

But if you prefer the Quran, declare your preference, and be done with it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Asking what?

Whose beliefs are you worried about "declining" when you ask this question?
Mine, Paul's, ____?

 

[Justadude]

Whose beliefs are you worried about "declining" when you ask this question?
Mine, Paul's, ____?

I'm not "worried about" anyone's beliefs declining. In fact, given much of what I see from Christians in places like this, I'd say the less of it in society the better.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm not "worried about" anyone's beliefs declining. In fact, given much of what I see from Christians in places like this, I'd say the less of it in society the better.

Less of Paul's beliefs?
Less of my beliefs?
Less of ____ beleifs?

Do you think Paul should be concerned with the decline of my beliefs?
Do you think I should be concerned with the decline of Paul's beliefs?

 

[Justadude]

Less of Paul's beliefs?

Definitely.

Less of my beliefs?

Can't really say, since every time I've tried to get you to discuss your beliefs, you decline.

Less of ____ beleifs?

Wild conspiracy theories, anti-science, bizarre fear (and subsequent hatred) of LGBTQs, racism, antisemitism, anti-medicine.....I've see all those things here and in other Christian forums. The less of those in society, the better.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Can't really say, since every time I've tried to get you to discuss your beliefs, you decline.

That's actually not true.
And if would like to discuss them further (sans any stereotyping), let me know.

 

[Justadude]

That's actually not true.
And if would like to discuss them further (sans any stereotyping), let me know.

Sure.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Sure.

Sent you a PM.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I don't doubt that Ham's dishonest propaganda convinces some people. If there were no gullible people there would be no con men.


Got any actual data to back that up? I Googled "why youth leave the church" and the first article was this survey from a Christian survey group: Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church - Barna Group

Their survey showed:

"Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
One of the reasons young adults feel disconnected from church or from faith is the tension they feel between Christianity and science. The most common of the perceptions in this arena is “Christians are too confident they know all the answers” (35%). Three out of ten young adults with a Christian background feel that “churches are out of step with the scientific world we live in” (29%). Another one-quarter embrace the perception that “Christianity is anti-science” (25%). And nearly the same proportion (23%) said they have “been turned off by the creation-versus-evolution debate.” Furthermore, the research shows that many science-minded young Christians are struggling to find ways of staying faithful to their beliefs and to their professional calling in science-related industries."​

There you have it. A significant number of young people are leaving Christianity specifically because of the anti-science nonsense from people like Ken Ham.


You're not the slightest bit qualified to say what is or isn't scientific.


Honestly Paul, that's just another argument that's not only wrong, but is laughably absurd. I'd love to help you understand why, but your past history shows you're not open to that.


Christians have opposed the idea of a moving earth that orbits the sun, the use of lightning rods, and all sorts of other scientific advances and discoveries throughout history. You and your young-earth creationist ilk are just the latest iteration of that.


This is what i really don't get. Between this forum and the other, many people have tried to get you to understand two very basic concepts: 1) science can be used to study unobserved events, and 2) science doesn't provide "proof". Yet no matter how much all those people (including myself) have tried to explain it, you still repeat the same two fundamental errors.

Why? Can you help me understand why you are so resistant to learning even the most basic things about science? The only thing I can think of is that you see science as a threat, and so you're afraid to learn about it. If that's not it, then help me understand what's going on.


And you're 100% wrong, in a very fundamental way. Even your fellow Christians have tried to help you understand and stop making such basic errors.

Does being wrong matter to you?

Seeing that I am not some 14 year old who came down in the last shower, but a mature guy who has been a few times around the clock and have made the study of divinity and theology my life's activity, I think I know what I am talking about. When you have done over 50 years of studying the Bible and reading hundreds of books on theology and divinity, then come back to me with your superior knowledge and engage in a meaningful discussion instead of rubbishing me as if I know nothing of Christian faith and practice.

You are an agnostic, and therefore not even in the ball park when it comes to being able to have a worthwhile discussion concerning Christian issues. You haven't even grasped Gospel 101 - the very basics, which is the equivalent of the 'baby formula' fed to baby Christians.

So, go and do some reading about what the gospel is all about, get converted to Christ, and then come back and have a reasonable discussion.

 

[Justadude]

Seeing that I am not some 14 year old who came down in the last shower, but a mature guy who has been a few times around the clock and have made the study of divinity and theology my life's activity, I think I know what I am talking about. When you have done over 50 years of studying the Bible and reading hundreds of books on theology and divinity, then come back to me with your superior knowledge and engage in a meaningful discussion instead of rubbishing me as if I know nothing of Christian faith and practice.

Your knowledge of the Bible, theology, or divinity isn't in question. I've not said one word about your experience or qualifications in those areas. I did however question your knowledge and experience in science, and by extension your qualifications to declare what is or isn't "science".

I hope you appreciate the difference.

You are an agnostic, and therefore not even in the ball park when it comes to being able to have a worthwhile discussion concerning Christian issues. You haven't even grasped Gospel 101 - the very basics, which is the equivalent of the 'baby formula' fed to baby Christians.

I'm not telling you anything different than what you've been told by some of your fellow Christians. They have tried just about every angle to get you to stop repeating basic, fundamental errors when you talk about science, but for some reason you wave all that away (and even say "I don't care") and continue repeating the same mistakes.

I'm hoping you can help me understand why that is. Can you explain?

So, go and do some reading about what the gospel is all about, get converted to Christ, and then come back and have a reasonable discussion.

Are you only able to have reasonable discussions with Christians? If so, I have to wonder why you posted in that other forum, which is dominated by non-Christians.

 

[Justadude]

Some of the Most Visible Christians in America Are Failing the Coronavirus Test

If the coronavirus is a test of our collective character, some American Christians are flat-out flunking.

Consider the popular pastor John Piper, who was asked what he would say to pastors who claim that the pandemic is God’s judgment on sinful cities and arrogant nations. “God sometimes uses disease to bring particular judgments upon those who reject him and give themselves over to sin,” Piper responded. Or perhaps look to R. R. Reno, the editor of the conservative Christian journal First Things, who argued that it’s not worth a “mass shutdown of society” just to fight the virus. “There is a demonic side to the sentimentalism of saving lives at any cost,” Reno wrote, decrying the “ill-conceived crusade against human finitude and the dolorous reality of death.”..

...This kind of stark self-righteous insensitivity makes nonreligious people despise Christians. I should know. I became a Christian more than 25 years ago, grew up as the son of a prominent evangelical pastor, graduated from Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University, and spent years as a Southern Baptist pastor in Georgia. I’ve witnessed every religious affectation imaginable, but I never thought I’d see the day when my alma mater, Liberty University, would endanger the lives of its students by partially reopening its doors in the middle of a pandemic, perhaps to make a political statement. Is this what it looks like to be “pro-life” now?...

...A prominent church in Texas recently paid for a billboard to ask commuters: “Is the coronavirus a judgment from God?” But that’s not as bad as Ralph Drollinger, the Christian minister who leads a Bible study for members of President Donald Trump’s Cabinet, who answered the question in the affirmative. In a series of blog posts, he argued that the disease is “God’s consequential wrath on our nation,” warning that “whenever an individual or corporate group of individuals violate the inviolate precepts of God’s Word, he, she, they or the institution will suffer the respective consequences.” Robert Jeffress, another Christian minister close to Trump, echoed this idea by warning, “All natural disasters can ultimately be traced back to sin.” Their interpretation of recent events is not as uncommon as you might assume. One recent poll reports that some 44 percent of Americans say the pandemic is a “wake-up call” from God and “signs of coming judgment.”

Ironically, the choice to emphasize these sorts of judgmental messages, instead of stressing love and caring, is costing the religion dearly. According to LifeWay Research, 70 percent of Protestants stop attending church for at least a year from the ages of 18 to 22. Why do they leave? Twenty-six percent said it was because church members were judgmental or hypocritical, and an additional 15 percent said it was due to church members being unfriendly and unwelcoming. Christians’ bad behavior has propped open their churches’ back doors.

Additionally, many nonbelievers are too frustrated with the way Christians behave to give their churches a try. The Barna Group, one of America’s leading polling organizations focused on religion, conducted a sweeping survey of non-Christians aged 16 to 29 in 2007. It found that a new generation had grown skeptical of and frustrated with the Christian faith because of negative personal experience with Christians whose words and actions seemingly misrepresent Christ. A shockingly high number of respondents said they perceived present-day Christianity as judgmental (87 percent), hypocritical (85 percent), and anti-homosexual (91 percent). The study concluded that a concerning number of young non-Christians believe that Christians are, well, “unchristian.”

Barna’s president, David Kinnaman, told me that his firm has continued to monitor attitudes toward Christianity in the 12 years since that landmark study, and unfortunately, not much has changed. “In our most recent research for Faith for Exiles, we found that many of the negative perceptions remain, and that those who walk away from the Church are most often struggling with the hypocrisy of other churchgoers,” Kinnaman said.​

So it's not just me who's noticing.

 

[Justadude]

I guess I can now add the prevalence of the "let the weak die so the strong can thrive" sentiment among right-wing Christians to the list of things I mentioned in the OP.

So much for that whole "pro-life" thing.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I guess I can now add the prevalence of the "let the weak die so the strong can thrive" sentiment among right-wing Christians to the list of things I mentioned in the OP.

So much for that whole "pro-life" thing.

oh pooh....so much negativity comes from your posts....Holy Spirit I pray that you will deliver this member from that ugly spirit that keeps him bound in oppression....I pray for your Words to have power over that darkness and bring light that it may shine bright in him and the darkness has to flee.
Psalm 18:28
For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

 

[Justadude]

oh pooh....so much negativity comes from your posts....

I'm simply reflecting what's being posted in this Christian forum, by Christians. You have Christians here expressing the view that we shouldn't be making sacrifices just to save the "frail", "old", and "weak".

Do you think that should just be ignored?

 

[Heart2Soul]

I'm simply reflecting what's being posted in this Christian forum, by Christians. You have Christians here expressing the view that we shouldn't be making sacrifices just to save the "frail", "old", and "weak".

Do you think that should just be ignored?

maybe not ignored....perhaps where there are two sides to a story there is also a third side that brings those two together...?? Is it possible"
Hugs brother...its confusing sometimes...especially when coming from different belief systems and even cultural ones.
.
We love all our members here and pray that they find hope and joy and the love of Christ...and in the mean time we try to guard our own pride in defending our beliefs against those that don't agree....it's a tough battle to win

Peace and Blessings

 

[Justadude]

maybe not ignored....perhaps where there are two sides to a story there is also a third side that brings those two together...?? Is it possible"

Sure.

Hugs brother...its confusing sometimes...especially when coming from different belief systems and even cultural ones.
.
We love all our members here and pray that they find hope and joy and the love of Christ...and in the mean time we try to guard our own pride in defending our beliefs against those that don't agree....it's a tough battle to win

Peace and Blessings

It's not really confusing as much as it is concerning. Others are expressing the same sort of concern about the rise in right-wing extremism within Christianity. The question is, what are they doing about it?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Sure.


It's not really confusing as much as it is concerning. Others are expressing the same sort of concern about the rise in right-wing extremism within Christianity. The question is, what are they doing about it?

As for me I am praying...putting on my Armor of God and fighting against spiritual wickedness.

 

[Justadude]

Yesterday the conservative group, The American Enterprise Institute, released a report on the decline of religion in the US. It's a bit dense, but the main takeaway is depicted in the following graph. Note though that the decline is visually exaggerated by the scale chosen for the Y-axis.

What I usually wonder when I see this sort of thing is whether this is a long-term trend that will continue, or if it's just a temporary blip that will reverse sometime in the future.