Saved Or Predestined ???

[CharismaticLady]

Personal prophecy, yes. This lady did not have a personal prophecy that pertained to her alone i.e. what she should or shouldn't do. She had a revelation worthy of Scripture.
CL, you're making me repeat myself too much.

Peter used prophecy as his first sermon on the Day of Pentecost. Prophecy was being fulfilled, and that revelation was given to Peter about Joel 2.

This is and the other are two ways the gift of prophecy is being used today.

 

[Renniks]

10, how do you reconcile or harmonize this with scriptures such as John 10:14-16, 26-28 f

I don't understand why you think these verses support limited atonement. They don't even imply it.
7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate;

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.

This precedes the verses you are so fond of. "whoever" can become a sheep.

What is so hard to grasp about that? Jesus speaks of what he does for his own and his own are those who enter through him.

 

[Renniks]

It could be, as in fact it is to you, that that is a simple matter of plain logic.

Apparently you seem to deny that man goes to hell because of his sin and welcomes the idea that if God had not offered him salvation, that God is at fault why he goes to hell, or even asserting that such is a case of God predestinating him to hell. Is that where plain logic leads to?

Tong
R0057

If no rescue is available, I am destined to die. If there's only one option, then why would God blame us for choosing that option? That's absurd.

 

[Renniks]

God made everybody exactly as it pleased Him.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Really? You are going to use a proverb as a proof text? Regardless:
The point is, God brings the wicked to his judgment, a very basic biblical doctrine in complete harmony with Arminian theology. This verse does not support the idea that God creates people for the purpose of them doing evil so that he can then punish them for it.

 

[Tong2020]

If predestination pointed to being saved, then all would be predestined and all would be saved. And that is because (1) Christ died for all and (2) God desires the salvation of all. And since all are not saved, it means that predestination has another purpose.

No. All were not predestined. Only the chosen are ~ those who are in Christ. Now, when I say that predestination points to being saved, it's just another way of saying, "predestination does not suggest anything but that leads to heaven."

Now, predestination means to predetermine, to foreordain. The Christian then, being predestined by God to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ, will certainly and without fail, be conformed in the image of the Son, right? Right.

Once we understand that God desires the ULTIMATE perfection of the saints, we can clearly see why he predestines those whom He justifies to also be glorified.

Which means that (1) salvation is entirely of the Lord and (2) God does nothing in half-measures. He wants all His children to be exact replicas of Christ, as Christ is an exact replica of the Father. But that will not happen until (1) "the flesh" (the sin nature) is eradicated and (2) the human body is rendered incorruptible, immortal, and glorious. And that is the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture. A total transformation of the saints into the likeness of Christ.

Agreed.

Tong
R0060

 

[DNB]

Peter used prophecy as his first sermon on the Day of Pentecost. Prophecy was being fulfilled, and that revelation was given to Peter about Joel 2.

This is and the other are two ways the gift of prophecy is being used today.

For the 3rd time, maybe more, Peter's declarations were doctrinal, they were a complete upheaval of the former Covenant, and it had to be inscribed in Scripture.

 

[Renniks]

You don't become a sheep Renniks. Read John 10 and you will find not a single verse that speaks of becoming a sheep.

Tong
R0058

On the contrary. First, Jesus is using a figure of speech. We aren't literally sheep. Thank goodness. Sheep are not the brightest animals.
But he plainly states that anyone who enters through him will be saved. There's that pesky unlimited atonement, right in your proof text chapter.

 

[Renniks]

Now, predestination means to predetermine, to foreordain. The Christian then, being predestined by God to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ, will certainly and without fail, be conformed in the image of the Son, right? Right.

Not if he falls away into false teaching and becomes reprobate.
Is any Christian perfectly like Jesus in this life? Of course not.
Even this predestination is conditional on our listening and following.

 

[marksman]

We are destined to do good works if we join the group called "elect". We are not predestined to salvation in the sense that we are chosen and others aren't. God is just.

The way I understand this and it may not be right is that because he knows everything from the beginning to the end he knows who will respond to his offer of salvation, so in that sense, he does choose people according to His foreknowledge. That ties up with the verse that says he chose us before the foundation of the world which is before Genesis 1;1.

God's knowledge is infinitesimal so that is why the coronavirus does not bother me because he knows the day I am going to die so if I get it and die no problem. I know because I have experienced it that people are terrified of getting it and as a result, they die. This was brought home to me in 1976 when I had a head-on collision in a car at 100kph. I said "Jesus here I come" as I thought it was D day. As soon as I said that I felt a pair of hands grab my shoulders and I didn't smash through the windscreen (I did not have a seat belt on). All I got was a bruised knee and a cut on my nose.

I know now I am not going to die in a car crash because that one was a killer. I have had one other car crash since then but it was mild in comparison.

P.S. Neither car crash was of my making.

 

[DNB]

The way I understand this and it may not be right is that because he knows everything from the beginning to the end he knows who will respond to his offer of salvation, so in that sense, he does choose people according to His foreknowledge. That ties up with the verse that says he chose us before the foundation of the world which is before Genesis 1;1.

God's knowledge is infinitesimal so that is why the coronavirus does not bother me because he knows the day I am going to die so if I get it and die no problem. I know because I have experienced it that people are terrified of getting it and as a result, they die. This was brought home to me in 1976 when I had a head-on collision in a car at 100kph. I said "Jesus here I come" as I thought it was D day. As soon as I said that I felt a pair of hands grab my shoulders and I didn't smash through the windscreen (I did not have a seat belt on). All I got was a bruised knee and a cut on my nose.

I know now I am not going to die in a car crash because that one was a killer. I have had one other car crash since then but it was mild in comparison.

P.S. Neither car crash was of my making.

Wow, ...sorry to digress, but that car crash story, if it's exactly as you say, is utterly incredible, miraculous.
BTW, infinitesimal means extremely small, I don't think that that was what you meant?

 

[kcnalp]

Really? You are going to use a proverb as a proof text?

I sure am!

This verse does not support the idea that God creates people for the purpose of them doing evil so that he can then punish them for it

Hmmm

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Never heard of Pharaoh?

Romans 9:17-18
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

 

[DNB]

The way I understand this and it may not be right is that because he knows everything from the beginning to the end he knows who will respond to his offer of salvation, so in that sense, he does choose people according to His foreknowledge. That ties up with the verse that says he chose us before the foundation of the world which is before Genesis 1;1.

Yes, and I believe that this is where the real glory of God lies. It is in His wisdom, that is, without manipulation, that he is able to have all history fulfill His will and fore-ordainment. For, it is no great feat to have everyone wired a certain way, in that they can't divert from their programmed path, in order to accomplish a destiny. But to allow an autonomous spirit to conduct themselves as their own heart determines, and in this manner, fall right into the hands of God, is the true majesty and glory of God. Love and Wisdom combined.

 

[CharismaticLady]

For the 3rd time, maybe more, Peter's declarations were doctrinal, they were a complete upheaval of the former Covenant, and it had to be inscribed in Scripture.

I really don't care how many times you spout your theories. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are still operational. I have all of the gifts in Joel 2, Mark 16, and all but two in 1 Corinthians 11. I can't help if you don't and therefore can't believe.

The gifts are the way 100% of my prayers are answered. And all of the visions I've had have come to pass. That is proof that the Word of God is for us today and true.

 

[Taken]

You don't know what a person is???

Jude 1:23
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

Why ask me to explain "your answer?

Recap...
Your answer says "a person" is tormented in hell.

But yet you did not say what "you" mean by person.

Why not?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[DNB]

I really don't care how many times you spout your theories. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are still operational. I have all of the gifts in Joel 2, Mark 16, and all but two in 1 Corinthians 11. I can't help if you don't and therefore can't believe.

The gifts are the way 100% of my prayers are answered. And all of the visions I've had have come to pass. That is proof that the Word of God is for us today and true.

My point was, that you weren't addressing my point. ...but, this post, you inadvertently did.
Therefore, I can say unreservedly, that both you and the 'babies in heaven' lady, are delirious.
Is say this to help, not to disparage.

 

[CharismaticLady]

My point was, that you weren't addressing my point. ...but, this post, you inadvertently did.
Therefore, I can say unreservedly, that both you and the 'babies in heaven' lady, are delirious.
Is say this to help, not to disparage.

For you to say delirious is very telling.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[DNB]

For you to say delirious is very telling.

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

CL, quit boasting about how empowered that you are, and start proving it. You sound selfish when you say, 'all my prayers are answered'.
Is that all that the gift of the Spirit means to you? I don't buy a single word that you say, until you tell me that the gift allowed you to save countless lost souls, heal countless people, inspire many with wisdom, and so on.
You seem to be extremely misguided and deluded.

 

[Tong2020]

God made everybody exactly as it pleased Him.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

Greetings kcnalp!

Great scriptures there, but it seems many does not like what it says.

Let me here add a few more scriptures which not many perhaps knows about God.

Exodus 4:11 So the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the Lord?

Psalms 105:16 Moreover He called for a famine in the land; He destroyed all the provision of bread.

2 Kings 17:25 And it was so, at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they did not fear the Lord; therefore the Lord sent lions among them, which killed some of them.

Lamentations 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That woe and well-being proceed?

Isaiah 46: 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,’

1 Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. 7 The Lord makes poor and makes rich; He brings low and lifts up.

Amos 3:6 If a trumpet is blown in a city, will not the people be afraid? If there is calamity in a city, will not the Lord have done it?

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

Tong
R0061

 

[quietthinker]

Hi

Are we chosen to be saved? Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect? Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

It's a red herring and a distraction from the Good News....it's design is to clash heads, divide and foster self righteousness

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hi

Are we chosen to be saved? Does God pre-select us according to his will?
Is salvation only for the elect?

I have faith, i believe, I've confessed and repented and accepted Christ as lord and saviour, but am i saved?

If not predestined and apart of his elect? Then all hope faith and trust in Christ is in vain, and comes to nothing.

Ephesians 4:5.
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.

Ephesians 11.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.

The invitation is that when we believe the promises of God in the gospel of Christ, we will be saved. Predestination is not pre-determination. We are chosen for salvation according to God's foreknowledge and not His fore-determination. He knows who is going to receive Christ as Saviour, and pre-destines those ones to be conformed to the image of Christ.

This means that believing the gospel and God's promises come first for salvation, and then the genuine convert to Christ realises that he was elected by God's foreknowledge from the foundation of the world.

This means that if you have believed the gospel and received Christ as your Saviour and Lord, then the promise of God is that you will be saved, and that because God knew from the foundation of the world that you would receive Christ, your name was written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.