What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

[justbyfaith]

"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24
Who is he?

He is in reference to God. Also, the word is in italics, which means that it is not in the original text. So Jesus is saying, "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."

Are we lost because our understanding differs from yours?

'fraid so.

But not because my understanding is mine.

Because my understanding is in accordance with what the word of the Lord teaches.

Notice that I give reference of scripture for everything I say, and some of you outright reject what I say even though the holy scripture substantiates it.

 

[justbyfaith]

and?.....where does it say in the bible the believers must first understand that Jesus is God to be saved?????Where is that added context????

We've already pointed out the verses. Go back and read the entire thread and look up the verses referenced in our posts.

 

[Angelina]

As far as I can see. You are taking particular verses out of context and then you are adding them to the salvation message as if it was a requirement based on situations that occurred between Jesus and the Pharisees.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is a bit extreme is it not?

man, i only wish it was; Apollos waters i know, but yikes already
doesnt auto-complete for "Christianity" for nothing i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Frodo's armor?

ha well that isnt showing up in my search, dunno
what did the Roman Centurion believe?

 

[Angelina]

John 8
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

Who do you think "he" is?

 

[bbyrd009]

I said "you are elohim" so of course our High Priest would at least be some kind of theos, right, although other Scripture, Jesus' Own Words, would negate a capital "G" there in "God" as Jesus' plainly told us there is only One of Those right, ergo a small "g" "god" might be more in line with a holistic reading imo

once again Jesus of Nazareth equated with John Doe from Nowhere, imo

 

[Angelina]

@bbryd009. Why are you trying to derail this thread?

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP only. the scripture is directly telling us JESUS is God "shared" in flesh. the "O" God is the definite article which prove our Lord's Deity. so there is no question about who JESUS is.

now a note: notice verse Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

notice what was said, "I will be to him a Father". WHAT?, will be to him a Father, but is he not his "Father?". not biologically speaking.
the term "will" tells it all.

PICJAG.

 

[amadeus]

@justbyfaith

amadeus said: ↑
We are surely not saved or lost according to our own determined theology, are we?

justbyfaith said:
1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Your verse speaks of "the doctrine". I wrote "our own determined theology". Hardly the same. "The doctrine" of the verse if correctly understood should, I believe, be God's understanding. My understanding, or yours, or both could be wrong. This is why we are not qualified as judges over others. You can believe you are right, which you do, because probably we all do, but let us leave the judgement where it belongs in the One in whom there is no "probably"!

amadeus said: ↑
"Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matt 7:1

Justbyfaith said:
Jhn 12:48, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

So then then according to your cited verse, leave it to the Word spoken to render judgement. Do not presume that what you speak, even when you quote the verse verbatim, equals the authority of what he spoke!

"And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" Acts 9:15

We can judge based on the word; we can declare the judgments of the Lord.

Phl 1:9, And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

No, the Word can judge the final judgement and will do so when it is time to separate the chaff from the wheat. You were not talking about in error for the moment but about dying in sins. You don't know the heart of me or of @bbyrd009 or @APAK

If I were you I would not presume the Word of God is a tool to be used at your leisure to finally judge anyone who disagrees with you. If you are leading you are wrong and there is a real danger in that... for you! If the Holy Spirit in you is not leading, you are walking blind even if you quoting scriptures. At harvest the chaff will be separated from the wheat. Do not presume that you know it is final harvest time for another person or that you are the harvester assigned to the work by God. Has God revealed those thing to you? Remember the sons of Sceva. They led themselves presuming that what Paul did, they could do also. What they saw Paul do was done as he was led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

As far as I can see. You are taking particular verses out of context and then you are adding them to the salvation message as if it was a requirement based on situations that occurred between Jesus and the Pharisees.

You have every right in this country to reject the truth of God's word.

Who do you think "he" is?

See the beginning of post #61.

 

[Angelina]

It teaches that Jesus is God, to put it simply.

And this is also an essential for salvation, John 8:24.

See also John 8:58, John 8:59 with John 10:31-33 with these compared to Exodus 3:14.

The Pharisees picked up stones to stone Jesus because He claimed to be God.

Addressing the original post also based on the above verses. He is talking to the Pharisees and Jews because they do not believe that he is the Messiah. Thus has nothing to do with the requirements for salvation.

 

[Angelina]

He is in reference to God. Also, the word is in italics, which means that it is not in the original text. So Jesus is saying, "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."

Please put this in context. Again, he is talking to the Pharisees and Jews. Why? because they did not believe that he was the Messiah. The coming one. That is what they [the Jews] have been waiting for and they did not recognise him.

 

[amadeus]

and?.....where does it say in the bible the believers must first understand that Jesus is God to be saved?????Where is that added context????

Indeed this is my point for even entering this discussion. I believe that Jesus is God, but I disagree with those who insist that failure to believe this will cause them to die in their sins. Whether or not it even a sin to not believe it, I believe, is according to what is in the person's heart and God knows that precisely. Many or most of us or all of us, don't know even our own hearts precisely with regard to the beliefs we espouse... much less what is in the heart of another person.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your verse speaks of "the doctrine". I wrote "our own determined theology". Hardly the same. "The doctrine" of the verse if correctly understood should, I believe, be God's understanding. My understanding, or yours, or both could be wrong. This is why we are not qualified as judges over others. You can believe you are right, which you do, because probably we all do, but let us leave the judgement where it belongs in the One in whom there is no "probably"!

His judgment will be in accordance with His revealed word, see John 12:48.

Do not presume that what you speak, even when you quote the verse verbatim, equals the authority of what he spoke!

It most certainly does. Only when I am speaking in conjunction with His word.

"And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" Acts 9:15

You can be certain that the demons are aware of who I am. I say this not in pride, but based on the fact that I have cast them out before.

If the Holy Spirit in you is not leading,

He is.

At harvest the chaff will be separated from the wheat. Do not presume that you know it is final harvest time for another person or that you are the harvester assigned to the work by God.

It is certainly not harvest time yet, in the sense of final judgment. But we can know from scripture what the judgment of the Lord is, based on what He spoke; whether out of His own mouth or by His Spirit in the epistles and Revelation and the Old Testament. Again, John 12:48.

Now as to whether the harvest is near, consider:

Jhn 4:34, Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Jhn 4:35, Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

And if we don't do the harvesting, who will?

Jhn 4:36, And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Jhn 4:37, And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth.
Jhn 4:38, I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours.

 

[Angelina]

Indeed this is my point for even entering this discussion. I believe that Jesus is God, but I disagree with those who insist that failure to believe this will cause them to die in their sins. Whether or not it even a sin to not believe it, I believe, is according to what is in the person's heart and God knows that precisely. Many or most of us or all of us, don't know even our own hearts precisely with regard to the beliefs we espouse... much less what is in the heart of another person.

Amen brother! I also believe that Jesus is God and I believe in the three are one - Godhead. However, to state that unless we believe in the deity of Christ, we will not be saved is ridiculous

 

[amadeus]

He is in reference to God. Also, the word is in italics, which means that it is not in the original text. So Jesus is saying, "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."



'fraid so.

But not because my understanding is mine.

Because my understanding is in accordance with what the word of the Lord teaches.

Notice that I give reference of scripture for everything I say, and some of you outright reject what I say even though the holy scripture substantiates it.

In conversations like this my friend, one day, if you endure so long with Him, you will understand just how important charity is to God!

 

[justbyfaith]

Indeed this is my point for even entering this discussion. I believe that Jesus is God, but I disagree with those who insist that failure to believe this will cause them to die in their sins. Whether or not it even a sin to not believe it, I believe, is according to what is in the person's heart and God knows that precisely. Many or most of us or all of us, don't know even our own hearts precisely with regard to the beliefs we espouse... much less what is in the heart of another person.

If a person is unaware of the fact that Jesus is God, I can see your point.

But if they become aware of it as fact and then go about rejecting it as a doctrine, that is another thing.

 

[justbyfaith]

In conversations like this my friend, one day, if you endure so long with Him, you will understand just how important charity is to God!

It is out of charity (agape love) that I seek to preach sound doctrine so that in believing it, men may be saved. Again, see 1 Timothy 4:16.

Charity, also, does not rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in the truth.

So I am not going to tell you that you are saved if the scripture declares that you are lost.

Now I'm glad that you repented and are now saying that you do believe that Jesus is God; but to say that it is not essential to believe in this truth is to disregard what Jesus has said in John 8:24 and elsewhere.

Can you say that you really believe in Him if you find yourself rejecting His words?

 

[Angelina]

How many people do you know @amadeus who are baby Christians and who have their theology correct. How many baby christians do you know, have even read a bible yet?