What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?

[Renniks]

and?.....where does it say in the bible the believers must first understand that Jesus is God to be saved?????Where is that added context????

Romans 10:10 seems pretty clear to me.

"We believe everything which the Lord Jesus has taught, but we must go a step further, and trust him. It is not even enough to believe in him, as being the Son of God, and the anointed of the Lord; but we must believe on him… The faith that saves is not believing certain truths, nor even believing that Jesus is a Savior; but it is resting on him, depending on him, lying with all your weight on Christ as the foundation of your hope. Believe that he can save you; believe that he will save you; at any rate leave the whole matter of your salvation with him in unquestioning confidence. Depend upon him without fear as to your present and eternal salvation. This is the faith which saves the soul.” (Spurgeon)

How can one believe Jesus is Lord if they know nothing about him or what he said about himself?

John 10:30 The Father and I are one.

Colossians 2:9-10 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 8:57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

The Jews got what he was saying, but some on here don't seem to.

 

[Angelina]

I'm curious about something.

Are you saying that Jesus told the Pharisees that unless they believed His deity, they would die in their sins, but that this does not apply to others? I want to make sure I understand. I'm curious why that would be.

Much love!

no brother marks. In post#2. brother JBF made a statement that said: It teaches that Jesus is God, to put it simply. And this is also an essential for salvation, John 8:24. I am making the point that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and non believing Jews in this chapter. He was not talking to gentiles or us today. These passages were consistent with his conversation at that point and in that time.

I am also pointing out his error that "Jesus is God" is not a requirement for salvation ergo: folks have been saved through Christ without understanding the biblical theology behind that statement....

 

[Angelina]

Romans 10:10 seems pretty clear to me.

"We believe everything which the Lord Jesus has taught, but we must go a step further, and trust him. It is not even enough to believe in him, as being the Son of God, and the anointed of the Lord; but we must believe on him… The faith that saves is not believing certain truths, nor even believing that Jesus is a Savior; but it is resting on him, depending on him, lying with all your weight on Christ as the foundation of your hope. Believe that he can save you; believe that he will save you; at any rate leave the whole matter of your salvation with him in unquestioning confidence. Depend upon him without fear as to your present and eternal salvation. This is the faith which saves the soul.” (Spurgeon)

How can one believe Jesus is Lord if they know nothing about him or what he said about himself?

John 10:30 The Father and I are one.

Colossians 2:9-10 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 8:57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

The Jews got what he was saying, but some on here don't seem to.

Ohh brother. Please go back to the original conversation where I first entered. #post 52.

 

[Angelina]

I'm gonna be here all day! next.....

 

[marks]

I am making the point that Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and non believing Jews in this chapter. He was not talking to gentiles or us today. These passages were consistent with his conversation at that point and in that time.

OK, so you think that's what Jesus was actually saying to them? The point being the context?

 

[Angelina]

OK, so you think that's what Jesus was actually saying to them? The point being the context?

Yes. This verse is not consistent to what he is trying to convey.

 

[marks]

Yes. This verse is not consistent to what he is trying to convey.

Thank you!!

 

[marks]

Yes. This verse is not consistent to what he is trying to convey.

What are your thoughts on why Jesus told the Jews that?

 

[Angelina]

Although they followed the law of Moses, they did not abide by it. They were hypocrites. They knew that the Messiah was coming but did not recognise him because they were viewing him in the flesh. They had knowledge and understanding from the scrolls handed down from generation to generation but they relied more on the fact that they were descendants of Abraham. There is more to this story than what I have said and you can read it yourself if you want to. John 8

 

[APAK]

Sorry! You're quite right! Shame on me! I call others on it, and I do it! So I am the hypocrit! So it goes. I'm sorry!

Let me ask you . . .

God was alone in the beginning? And then created Jesus? Is that right?

Much love!

Yes, at one place and state, YHWH was 'alone' from the 'beginning' with his purpose and plans, and his own word or his own form of communication that caused creation and effective changes, on command, for all he made and also his created spirits, including his future Son. His word would be possessed by his Son after he was born. His Son would become his emissary and representative and leader to mankind and centerpiece for all creation - it would be all for his Son. He planned this purpose for his Son from the 'beginning.' He made 'all' things for his Son and planned for his creation at an appropriate time to bring forth and execute his plan for our salvation. The OT speaks of his Son's future supernatural creation/birth and anointing. And the gospel writers spoke and wrote of this most miraculous event - the only Son of YHWH that also possessed the Father's divine power, as he does today. He would provide his Son the power necessary to complete his mission on earth and give him glory and his rightful position in the heavenlies, sharing his power, even today. They are two spirits. The Father is the owner of Christ's spirit as he created him with his own Holy Spirit. The Father is one and the only divine Spirit that exists, ever. He is never-changing from eternity past to eternity future. The Son, though immortal today cannot be divine. Christ 'feeds off' the Father's divinity as they became one, although this does not mean they are exactly same (Spirit). Christ is the prince of peace and the only (everlasting - for our age and future) father and head of the new creation, as the quickening spirit for all true believers - his 'church.'

We as believers are also in the Spirit that specifically and essentially brought us the spirit of his Son, for the sole purpose for us to grow into and conform, become like as he is.....with all his character, of love, peace, truth etc that all came from his Father, YHWH, the source of all life, even the life of his Son.

Blessings,

APAK
PS Marks you are definitely forgiven. All spirits in the Spirit, including my own, will not rest until it is healed and reconciled with the Spirit of truth and peace within us ..Amen

 

[justbyfaith]

So now you are going to use the reverse psychology. Ummm okay. No I believe that Jesus died for the lost sheep of Israel that is why I am a believer in Jesus Christ who is my Lord and Savior even though I am from pagan ancestry, a gentile Christian and even though I not an Israelite, nor am I of Jewish descent.

Did Jesus die for the Gentiles? For He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

If He died for the Gentiles, by the same token it can be said that His words were to the Gentiles.

For if He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and this means that His words were only to Israel, then by the same token His death on the Cross was only for Israel.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Angelina,

In what sense does the statement of John 8:24 only apply to the Pharisees?

Why would Pharisees die in their sins for not believing that Jesus is the great I AM, while Gentiles are exempt from His statement? Is Jesus being discriminatory?

I say to you verily that He was making a blanket statement of doctrine and that it does not only apply to a specific group of people.

Even though He was talking to that specific group of people in that moment.

The epistle of Paul to the Philippians is written specifically "to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi." (Philippians 1:1).

So then, do you believe that the promise in Philippians, that He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it until the day of Jesus Christ, (Philippians 1:6), does not apply to anyone today but only applies to the saints at Philippi in Paul's day?

This is a repeat post.

 

[Renniks]

Yes, at one place and state, YHWH was 'alone' from the 'beginning' with his purpose and plans, and his own word or his own form of communication that caused creation and effective changes, on command, for all he made and also his created spirits, including his future Son. His word would be possessed by his Son after he was born. His Son would become his emissary and representative and leader to mankind and centerpiece for all creation - it would be all for his Son. He planned this purpose for his Son from the 'beginning.' He made 'all' things for his Son and planned for his creation at an appropriate time to bring forth and execute his plan for our salvation. The OT speaks of his Son's future supernatural creation/birth and anointing. And the gospel writers spoke and wrote of this most miraculous event - the only Son of YHWH that also possessed the Father's divine power, as he does today. He would provide his Son the power necessary to complete his mission on earth and give him glory and his rightful position in the heavenlies, sharing his power, even today. They are two spirits. The Father is the owner of Christ's spirit as he created him with his own Holy Spirit. The Father is one and the only divine Spirit that exists, ever. He is never-changing from eternity past to eternity future. The Son, though immortal today cannot be divine. Christ 'feeds off' the Father's divinity as they became one, although this does not mean they are exactly same (Spirit). Christ is the prince of peace and the only (everlasting - for our age and future) father and head of the new creation, as the quickening spirit for all true believers - his 'church.'

We as believers are also in the Spirit that specifically and essentially brought us the spirit of his Son, for the sole purpose for us to grow into and conform, become like as he is.....with all his character, of love, peace, truth etc that all came from his Father, YHWH, the source of all life, even the life of his Son.

Blessings,

APAK
PS Marks you are definitely forgiven. All spirits in the Spirit, including my own, will not rest until it is healed and reconciled with the Spirit of truth and peace within us ..Amen

The Word has always existed. He had no beginning.

 

[justbyfaith]

Praying for you, @APAK, @Angelina, @bbyrd009, and @amadeus.

 

[Angelina]

Did Jesus die for the Gentiles? For He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

If He died for the Gentiles, by the same token it can be said that His words were to the Gentiles.

For if He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and this means that His words were only to Israel, then by the same token His death on the Cross was only for Israel.

If you want to somehow connect a verse to another. That's fine but again. John 8 is not consistent with what you are trying to convey. The idea that you are now asking the above question is a strawmans argument.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Angelina, please answer post #172 (What do you think this text says about the deity of Christ?).

Thank you,

@justbyfaith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again as I have said many times already, only God gives increases!

Truth.

Yet it is also not wise to resist the increase that the Lord (God) wants to produce in you simply because the exhortation is coming from one of His servants (whom you may happen to not like).

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina,

In what sense does the statement of John 8:24 only apply to the Pharisees?

Why would Pharisees die in their sins for not believing that Jesus is the great I AM, while Gentiles are exempt from His statement? Is Jesus being discriminatory?

I say to you verily that He was making a blanket statement of doctrine and that it does not only apply to a specific group of people.

Even though He was talking to that specific group of people in that moment.

The epistle of Paul to the Philippians is written specifically "to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi." (Philippians 1:1).

So then, do you believe that the promise in Philippians, that He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it until the day of Jesus Christ, (Philippians 1:6), does not apply to anyone today but only applies to the saints at Philippi in Paul's day?

John 8
The story starts off with Jesus and the teachers of the law and the Pharisees who bring a woman caught in adultery. He wisely poses a question to them and none of them were able to cast a stone at her because they recognised that they were not without sin.

Then Jesus makes the statement that he is the light of the world. This statement brings together the Jewish ideology of truth and knowledge, insinuating that the speaker is the only source of spiritual truth. This turns into a powerful verbal battle between him and the religious leaders of their day. They were claiming to be descendants of Abraham and favoured by God. Jesus then pointed out that if they were Abraham's children, they would not be trying to kill him for speaking the truth, that Abraham would not do that.

And it went from bad to worse with Jesus saying that they were children of the devil and the Religious leaders accusing him of having a demon. Then when Jesus said " before Abraham was, I am.....Those religious leader, experts in the law and Jews tried to stone him....

Can you please tell me in this story, where the religious rulers of the day, the teachers of the law the Pharisees and the Jews who followed the law of Moses and Jesus, somehow manage to fit into the gentiles???

 

[justbyfaith]

John 8
The story starts off with Jesus and the teachers of the law and the Pharisees who bring a woman caught in adultery. He wisely poses a question to them and none of them were able to cast a stone at her because they recognised that they were not without sin.

Then Jesus makes the statement that he is the light of the world. This statement brings together the Jewish ideology of truth and knowledge, insinuating that the speaker is the only source of spiritual truth. This turns into a powerful verbal battle between him and the religious leaders of their day. They were claiming to be descendants of Abraham and favoured by God. Jesus then pointed out that if they were Abraham's children, they would not be trying to kill him for speaking the truth, that Abraham would not do that.

And it went from bad to worse with Jesus saying that they were children of the devil and the Religious leaders accusing him of having a demon. Then when Jesus said " before Abraham was, I am.....Those religious leader, experts in the law and Jews tried to stone him....

This is not an answer to the specific questions in my post.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Angelina,

I want you to specifically answer my question about Philippians.