"I don't like even being around them"

[Pearl]

Are you sure? The believers in other gods are just as confident and sure as you are.

Absolutely positive. How can they hear - they are man-made. And the Prophet has a tomb. Jesus who is our God incarnate doesn't have a tomb because he is alive in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Justadude]

So you might believe, but the Christian God is different.

Well all gods are unique, right?

There is only one way to the Father and that is through his son Jesus. But if you don't believe what the bible says you won't want to believe that.

That's true.

You can try to prove our God doesn't exist but you would be wasting your time because we all have a very personal relationship with him so we know he is real.

I have no interest in trying to persuade anyone to abandon their beliefs.

But if you took the trouble to find out instead of sticking to your own views than you would see him for yourself and have a similar life-changing experience that we have had.

What do you mean by taking the trouble to find out? Maybe you don't realize it, but I've been around Christianity my whole life. I was raised in a church that met three times a week, and I was raised in a family that was very Christian and infused Christianity into most aspects of life. So I'm quite familiar with the message of Christianity and what it's based on.

Our God reached down to us and came to live amongst us but the gods of other religions require their followers to reach up to them.

Well to be accurate, gods from other religions have also been said to come to earth and interact with humans.

Absolutely positive. How can they hear - they are man-made.

Then what do you think are they hearing?

 

[Pearl]

Sure, that makes sense. I'm curious though, what do you think about people from other religions who say their gods answer them and speak to them? And what do you think about people like me who've never had any gods answer or speak to them?

I have friends who have converted from Islam and Hinduism because the Holy Spirit showed them the truth and by their own testimonies their previous gods didn't answer prayer or speak to them. The Hindu faith is based on the worship of a giant phallic symbol. Buddah may been a man but wasn't god. The emperor of Japan is self-styled god. All these people do have a genuine faith in what they are taught.

I believed myself to be a Christian for many years as I 'was a good person' and went to church. But that didn't cut the mustard with God

 

[Justadude]

I have friends who have converted from Islam and Hinduism because the Holy Spirit showed them the truth and by their own testimonies their previous gods didn't answer prayer or speak to them.

That's not what I asked about though. I asked what you think about Muslims and Hindus who say their gods do speak to them.

 

[Pearl]

What do you mean by taking the trouble to find out? Maybe you don't realize it, but I've been around Christianity my whole life. I was raised in a church that met three times a week, and I was raised in a family that was very Christian and infused Christianity into most aspects of life. So I'm quite familiar with the message of Christianity and what it's based on.

You sound a lot like my son who knows it all because he was brought up in a Christian home but won't make the commitment to Christ. For thirty five years of my life I thought I was a Christian because I believed in God and went to church but that isn't enough for God and when I was thirty five a kind person told me that going to church or believing in God didn't make me a Christian and told me I needed to give my life to Jesus. Which I did. I think many people, like you and my son, hold back from making that commitment because they fear losing control. Or perhaps they think they are not good enough or alternately they are good enough without God.

 

[Pearl]

That's not what I asked about though. I asked what you think about Muslims and Hindus who say their gods do speak to them.

Like I said before because they SAY it doesn't make it true. How can a man-made God speak or answer prayer?

 

[Willie T]

Maybe that's the big difference here. I've never had anything like a revelation, spiritual experience, vision, or even an answered prayer. When I was young, my parents would tell me "pray about it" or "ask God for guidance" when I would come to them with problems. For a while I tried that. But it didn't take too long before I concluded that it was a waste of time, because nothing happened. I can still recall a time in my room where I said out loud to myself, "I'm just talking to a wall."

I also remember telling that to our youth leader at church and she basically told me I just didn't have enough faith and my habit of questioning everything and "overthinking" was getting in the way. I honestly found that very revealing. It indicated something very crucial to me that I've never forgotten.

Oh, I firmly believe our own estimation of how well we can explain away most anything certainly gets in the way a lot of the time.

 

[Pearl]

And what do you think about people like me who've never had any gods answer or speak to them?

If you really want God to answer you he will although he may not do so immediately and he may not give you the answer you hope for. But he is there and he is real and he loves you. And all those other good things your parents taught you. I can't prove him to you but I am solid in my acceptance of his reality.

 

[Justadude]

You sound a lot like my son who knows it all because he was brought up in a Christian home but won't make the commitment to Christ.

I'm not sure what to make of that. It comes across as rather insulting and condescending.

For thirty five years of my life I thought I was a Christian because I believed in God and went to church but that isn't enough for God and when I was thirty five a kind person told me that going to church or believing in God didn't make me a Christian and told me I needed to give my life to Jesus. Which I did.

That's pretty much what my family and our church believed and taught (that just believing in God and going to church isn't enough).

I think many people, like you and my son, hold back from making that commitment because they fear losing control.

Control of what?

Or perhaps they think they are not good enough or alternately they are good enough without God.

Or maybe I'm telling you the truth when I say the reason I'm not a Christian is because it makes no sense to me.

Like I said before because they SAY it doesn't make it true. How can a man-made God speak or answer prayer?

So you think they're lying when they say their gods answered them and spoke to them. Flipping that around, how do I know you're not lying when you say the same thing?

If you really want God to answer you he will although he may not do so immediately and he may not give you the answer you hope for. But he is there and he is real and he loves you. And all those other good things your parents taught you. I can't prove him to you but I am solid in my acceptance of his reality.

But as I explained, I tried and absolutely nothing happened (except me realizing I was wasting my time). That was 40 years ago. Isn't it sensible to for me to just move on?

 

[Justadude]

Oh, I firmly believe our own estimation of how well we can explain away most anything certainly gets in the way a lot of the time.

What other explanation should I have gone with? I tried everything they told me and literally nothing happened.

 

[Willie T]

What other explanation should I have gone with? I tried everything they told me and literally nothing happened.

Haven't you "explained away" lots of so-called "coincidences" in your life? I know there have to be MANY times when something really odd and unexpected happened.

 

[Justadude]

Haven't you "explained away" lots of so-called "coincidences" in your life? I know there have to be MANY times when something really odd and unexpected happened.

Sure, but we're not talking about a coincidence. We're talking about a complete nothing...a non-event.

Try and look at this from my POV. If a Hindu implored you to pray to one of their gods, and you went ahead and did so but got absolutely nothing from it (no voices, feelings, visions...nothing), what would you conclude?

 

[Willie T]

Sure, but we're not talking about a coincidence. We're talking about a complete nothing...a non-event.

Try and look at this from my POV. If a Hindu implored you to pray to one of their gods, and you went ahead and did so but got absolutely nothing from it (no voices, feelings, visions...nothing), what would you conclude?

Is THAT what you have been expecting? That's what the "suckers" go to the TV guys for. How does the Bible say God will generally move in our lives? Sure, sometimes that happens, but I imagine it is pretty rare in most people's lives.

 

[Nancy]

You sound a lot like my son who knows it all because he was brought up in a Christian home but won't make the commitment to Christ. For thirty five years of my life I thought I was a Christian because I believed in God and went to church but that isn't enough for God and when I was thirty five a kind person told me that going to church or believing in God didn't make me a Christian and told me I needed to give my life to Jesus. Which I did. I think many people, like you and my son, hold back from making that commitment because they fear losing control. Or perhaps they think they are not good enough or alternately they are good enough without God.

Very well said Pat. My breakthrough with Christ came only after many years of playing church, I had a dead faith. I had no understanding. It was not until a few short years ago that every single thing in my life changed like, overnight.
That day, I was deep into depression, even despair and there were tears every day for a good 2 years. One day, I was so very low, I got on my face, prone in my bedroom and pleaded with Him to take it all, everything I struggle with, take this so called identity I live by and give me yours. And all I can say is that, surrender was key for me.
xo

 

[Justadude]

Is THAT what you have been expecting? That's what the "suckers" go to the TV guys for. How does the Bible say God will generally move in our lives? Sure, sometimes that happens, but I imagine it is pretty rare in most people's lives.

I dunno, seems pretty common here. I see a lot of stories about the Holy Spirit revealing, speaking, showing, giving all sorts of things. Our church specifically taught that God would "reveal Himself" to me if I asked.

So if all of that is for "suckers", what do you suggest?

 

[Willie T]

I dunno, seems pretty common here. I see a lot of stories about the Holy Spirit revealing, speaking, showing, giving all sorts of things. Our church specifically taught that God would "reveal Himself" to me if I asked.

So if all of that is for "suckers", what do you suggest?

Why not just pray nothing more than for you to be made aware of times when God may be doing something in your life?

 

[Pearl]

I'm not sure what to make of that. It comes across as rather insulting and condescending.

Sorry if you thought that but it seemed to me as if that was what you were saying about yourself.

Control of what?

Control of their own lives by handing it over to Jesus.

Or maybe I'm telling you the truth when I say the reason I'm not a Christian is because it makes no sense to me.

Well it won't until the Holy Spirit give you insight.

So you think they're lying when they say their gods answered them and spoke to them. Flipping that around, how do I know you're not lying when you say the same thing?

I think they sincerely believe. And you don't but it doesn't worry me.

But as I explained, I tried and absolutely nothing happened (except me realizing I was wasting my time). That was 40 years ago. Isn't it sensible to for me to just move on?

Lots of Christians have similar experiences; times of trying to reach God and feeling that God isn't answering or that he isn't around any more, But in our hearts we know he is there even when he seems to be absent and he always shows up again once we have learned whatever it was he was teaching us. He speaks to us and he teaches us things.

What seems to be your stumbling block to believing? Is it anything specific? Or just as you say it doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to make sense though to somebody who has not received the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Once a person receives that it all makes complete sense. So that is what you are lacking and what you need in order to 'see' God.

 

[Justadude]

Why not just pray nothing more than for you to be made aware of times when God may be doing something in your life?

How would I be made aware though if revelations, voices, visions, dreams, etc. are generally for "suckers"? Would it just be a general feeling?

 

[Pearl]

Very well said Pat. My breakthrough with Christ came only after many years of playing church, I had a dead faith. I had no understanding. It was not until a few short years ago that every single thing in my life changed like, overnight.
That day, I was deep into depression, even despair and there were tears every day for a good 2 years. One day, I was so very low, I got on my face, prone in my bedroom and pleaded with Him to take it all, everything I struggle with, take this so called identity I live by and give me yours. And all I can say is that, surrender was key for me.
xo

Surrender is the key word always; surrendering our lives to Him. I had no crisis as such but had been on tranquilisers for years - even during my pregnancy. I just wanted to be forgiven and accepted and to know that I was a 'proper' Christian. The day after my re-birth everything seemed clearer, brighter and more colourful and the heavy weight that had been on me was lifted and I've never taken another single tranquiliser. Praise God for his love, and grace and mercy. And praise him for finding me and opening my eyes and bringing me darkness into light.

 

[Pearl]

I dunno, seems pretty common here. I see a lot of stories about the Holy Spirit revealing, speaking, showing, giving all sorts of things. Our church specifically taught that God would "reveal Himself" to me if I asked.

So if all of that is for "suckers", what do you suggest?

Keep asking.