Law Rules—Grace Lives

[Prayer Warrior]

If you take the law as your rule of life—and holy, and just, and good it is—remember that as many as are of its works, upon that principle, are under the curse, as the Apostle Paul said (“of its works” i.e. trusting its works or any works for forgiveness - Gal 3:10; “under the curse,” because man could not perfectly obey the law, which was intended to establish the necessity of Christ to change one’s heart - Jas 2:10—NC). It is only when man puts himself under the law that he forfeits everything, for then God must allow him to prove how much he can claim on the ground of his sown works.

You find neither pilgrim nor stranger-ship in your rule, and that may suit you; but you find no glories of the new creation in it either; nor does it speak to you as a heavenly people, sanctified, and sent into the world as the Father sent His Son. All this is nowhere; the Christian’s place no higher than the Jews (still law not grace—NC); the standard of walk no different; for, of course, if the law is your rule of life, as was the Jews’, there cannot, and ought not to be any difference between you walk and his; your position in the Lord Jesus and its privileges gone, for of these the Jew knew nothing (the Jews chose not to advance from being a people of God under the prior Covenant, to being children of God under the present Covenant, as the indwelling of Christ is required to be an “heir” in the child-ship of the Father - Rom 8:17—NC).

But “if any man be in Christ he is a new creature’ old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new” (2Cor 5:17 – and all remains new daily - Lam 3:23—NC). What does this mean: “a new creature”; a new sort of creature, as the Word implies? Do you go back to Adam, the pure and innocent man in the garden which God set him in to dress and keep? Nay, that would be no creature new in kind! Adam, even pure and good before his fall, was yet “of the earth, earthy” (but God’s plans were of a greater “heavenly” position for man, providing a closer fellowship of, not just being with Him on earth but being in Him in heaven, via His Spirit - 1Cor 15:47-49; Jhn 14:16, 17—NC). Is the Lord Jesus but the first man set up afresh? Never! He is “the second Man, the Lord from heaven” (v 47).

Let men cavil as they please, He is a heavenly Man; a second, another sort (first with the new body in heaven—NC); a “last Adam,” seen and accepted before the Father, “in the Beloved.” “As is the earthy, such are they also that are heavenly.” The image of it we have not yet, true (e.g. the new body and sinless state—NC). That will be ours in the day of His coming. The thing we are (eternal child of God in Christ—NC)!

Do you and I know what it is to look into those heavens, where the Son of God sits in glory all His own, and see and recognize in Him what we are before the Father, “as He is,” even “in this world” (1Jo 4:17)? Can we say quite confidently, each for themselves, “Yes, we are identified with “Him who is our Life” before the face of the Father (Col 3:4); as He is, in whom no spot was ever found, nor can be (impeccable—NC), after the Father’s own heart wholly”? That is to be in Christ, a new creature. Our rule is to “walk in Him” (Col 2:6), as being what we really are: heavenly citizens, pilgrims and strangers upon the earth (all are pilgrims on this present earth because it will “pass away” - Rev 21:1. I do not think Christians will dwell on the new earth, but rather rule it with the Lord Jesus from the new heaven; and the new Jerusalem possibly being the meeting place of fellowship between the earthly and heavenly dwellers (Rev 21:2—NC).

All the rest the Cross has ended for us. We have died with the Lord Jesus out of our old Adam position; our old man was crucified with Him on the Cross (Rom 6:6). The flesh is in us still, indeed, but in us a foreign thing. We are not in it before our Father, nor identified with it in anywise (concerning its damnation, dominion and ungodliness – Rom 8:1; 6:14; Tit 1:15—NC), but with Him in Whom it was never found. We are in Him as He is and where He is. Can we own this, and seek to get on in a world (i.e. get together with the world—NC) that crucified the Lord Jesus; a world to which we are crucified and it crucified to us (Gal 6:14); a world whose prince and god is Satan (Jhn 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2Co 4:4), and friendship with which is enmity against God (Jas 4:4)? Can we take up the law with others, when our Father has shown us grace? Not I, “for I, through the law, and dead to the law, that I might live unto God” (Gal 2:19).



— Wm Kelly (1821-1906)

Netchaplain, thanks for posting this. It blessed me.

Blessings to you!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi and appreciate the help! Concerning obedience to the Law I believe an important note is that only the Jew could be under the Law, and thereby be "forgiven" under the sin sacrifices of the priests (but not after Christ's ascension, which is now through Christianity). Obedience showed faith but could never effect forgiveness, even now (Num 15:22-34); forgiveness being a provisional sacrificial ordinance, same for the Christian through Christ.

God bless!

Did the sacrifices actually cause forgiveness for the jews though?

 

[justbyfaith]

God had a purpose for using only the Jewish nation to begin revealing Himself to mankind, then to the rest of the world. Of course concerning the guilt of being a sinner, all are on like footing and require redemption, for all are under "the law of sin" (Gal 3:22); which states that
"the soul that sinneth, it shall die (Eze 18:4, 20),and had its beginning with the first man (Gen 2:17).

Yes; and sin is defined as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes; and sin is defined as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

Yes,

But the law can not show us every possibility of what sin is, So you can sin and in reality not break the law..

 

[justbyfaith]

Sin do you even know what it is, you where the law ended.

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20)

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Which is it the old or the new. We where never under teh law, will never be under teh law it was never ours, Grace us all that was given to usgentiles, yet rejected by so many.

I believe that you are ignoring the scriptures that I have presented.

Of what use would it be to me to read all those scriptures if the person quoting them is of the mindset that they present an accurate characterisation of God? If you are looking at all those to prove that God throughout history had presented Himself as fearsome and one we ought be afraid to approach, then I'm not interested. If however you are willing to look at them through the lens of other scriptures depicting God's working with mankind to be from a completely different paradigm... One of love, faithfulness, grace, mercy and kindness, then I am willing to discuss this further.
Allow me to offer you a clue as to why people are afraid of God. You will find it in Genesis 3:9,10. The question I have for you is why do you blame God for your fear?

To present the scriptures as proclaiming the truth does not warrant not receiving them as truth.

It is not that we ought to be afraid to approach Him; but that the fear of Him is a virtuous thing that produces holiness.

It is of course your decision as to whether you will behove yourself of the knowledge of the scriptures or whether you will reject that knowledge by neglecting to read what is presented to you.

Yes, God is a God of faithfulness, grace, mercy, and kindness; however He is also One to be feared; and I have presented a major plethora of scriptures that proclaim this truth.

We do not need to discuss this further if that is your wish. I have said my piece; and if it is your decision to reject what I have said on the matter, I believe that others will not do the same.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes,

But the law can not show us every possibility of what sin is, So you can sin and in reality not break the law..

While it is true that those who sin transgress the law, it is not always true that those who transgress the law are always sinning.

For Jesus violated the sabbath law (John 5:17-18, Exodus 20:10); at least, he violated the letter of it.

However, He came to produce a new paradigm for all of us, that we are no longer bound to the letter, but rather are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 7:12).

 

[justbyfaith]

But the law can not show us every possibility of what sin is, So you can sin and in reality not break the law..

Indeed; for whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Indeed; for whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

Amen
That is one of the flaws of lookin got the law for even moral guidance. We can be fooled into thinking we are ok.. When in realty, we are not even close.

 

[Netchaplain]

Did the sacrifices actually cause forgiveness for the jews though?

Hi, and thanks for your replies and comments! Concerning your inquiry:
Num 15:25

Example: "the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi, and thanks for your replies and comments! Concerning your inquiry:
Num 15:25

Example: "the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them."

I was referring to this

Heb 10: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

Amen
That is one of the flaws of lookin got the law for even moral guidance. We can be fooled into thinking we are ok.. When in realty, we are not even close.

The Lord Jesus reinterpreted the law in Matthew chapters 5-7 so that we will not be fooled into thinking we are ok if we take His words into account.

The only way to measure up to Jesus' reinterpretation of the law in the Sermon on the Mount is to come to Him as lepers (leprosy is a type of sin) and to ask Him to cleanse us. To which He will reply, I am willing; be thou clean. (Matthew 8:1-4)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Lord Jesus reinterpreted the law in Matthew chapters 5-7 so that we will not be fooled into thinking we are ok if we take His words into account.

The only way to measure up to Jesus' reinterpretation of the law in the Sermon on the Mount is to come to Him as lepers (leprosy is a type of sin) and to ask Him to cleanse us. To which He will reply, I am willing; be thou clean. (Matthew 8:1-4)

I think Jesus. Told us how to come to him in his first statement of blessing

Blessed are those who are poor n spirit, for theirs s the kingdom of God

The greek word translated “poor” here is a term which means complete brokenness, Bankruptcy. A beggar, Having nothing (not just poor as we think poor)

We need to become this if we are to call out like the tax collector. To be saved

 

[justbyfaith]

@Brakelite2 ,

The scripture says,

Jer 6:16, Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20)

No it is not, Sin entered with Adam, sin was around long before the law was given to Moses,

Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The law was given so that God had a way to use Jesus as a sacrifice, how can God offer Jesus as a sacrifice if there is no law to break. Are you SDA???

 

[Brakelite]

No it is not, Sin entered with Adam, sin was around long before the law was given to Moses,

Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The law was given so that God had a way to use Jesus as a sacrifice, how can God offer Jesus as a sacrifice if there is no law to break. Are you SDA???

You continue to reveal your lack of understanding of Adventist thinking. And you blatantly deny scripture which was quoted word for word... Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. And yes, there was sin before Sinai... But that doesn't mean there was no law before Sinai... You think don't eat of that tree isn't law? What was it if not a commandment? Nutritional information? Dietary recommendation? Fat loss suggestion?

 

[mjrhealth]

You continue to reveal your lack of understanding of Adventist thinking. And you blatantly deny scripture which was quoted word for word... Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. And yes, there was sin before Sinai... But that doesn't mean there was no law before Sinai... You think don't eat of that tree isn't law? What was it if not a commandment? Nutritional information? Dietary recommendation? Fat loss suggestion?

What has the law to do with us, why are you so obsessed with the law, did you miss this bit.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

What is it you do not understand???

The old, the law, works , flesh,
the new the Spirit and grace

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Choose which it is you desire.

 

[Brakelite]

What has the law to do with us, why are you so obsessed with the law, did you miss this bit.

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

What is it you do not understand???

The old, the law, works , flesh,
the new the Spirit and grace

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Choose which it is you desire.

The above was my first mention of the law in this thread and only because you told another poster that his quote of scripture was wrong. And your continuing inferences that Adventists believe they are justified by keeping the law is also flat out wrong... Which is why I said you have a lack of understanding of Adventist thinking. Hardly surprising however coming from someone who reject the scriptures as authority... Despite using it to somehow justify his position.

 

[mjrhealth]

The above was my first mention of the law in this thread and only because you told another poster that his quote of scripture was wrong. And your continuing inferences that Adventists believe they are justified by keeping the law is also flat out wrong... Which is why I said you have a lack of understanding of Adventist thinking. Hardly surprising however coming from someone who reject the scriptures as authority... Despite using it to somehow justify his position.

It has no authority, see this bit

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

The only authority is God Jesus and His Spirit. The bible is not God, it is Not Jesus it is Not His Spirit, It is not His Word and it has no life in it. You know this bit

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

and

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Than go back and re read my previous post. One can only serve one master who or what is it Christ or your religion??

 

[Brakelite]

and they are they which testify of me.

A testimony has authority. A testimony validates. A testimony gives witness to. Testimonies are what all court officials rule by. They are eye witness accounts. And this particular testimony is being told you by Jesus Himself. Search the scriptures. Through them you will find Me.
How do you know you have the right Jesus if you disregard the testimony that points directly to Him?

 

[justbyfaith]

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20)

No it is not,

This is in direct denial of the scriptures that I referenced to you.

Sin entered with Adam, sin was around long before the law was given to Moses,

Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The law was given so that God had a way to use Jesus as a sacrifice, how can God offer Jesus as a sacrifice if there is no law to break. Are you SDA???

The law is something that exists in the heart of God even before it was given. It is a moral standard that has applied to God throughout eternity as well as to all of His creation. The revelation of it was simply not given to man until Moses. But it is something that governs morality throughout creation from the beginning of time.

No I am not SDA although I have been influenced by some of their books.

It has no authority, see this bit

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.

The only authority is God Jesus and His Spirit. The bible is not God, it is Not Jesus it is Not His Spirit, It is not His Word and it has no life in it. You know this bit

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

and

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Than go back and re read my previous post. One can only serve one master who or what is it Christ or your religion??

Consider that the scripture does indeed have authority.

Consider John 14:26 and John 16:13. In these verses, Jesus validates Peter's writings as being authoritative.

Then go over to 2 Peter 3:15-16; where Peter validates Paul's writings as being holy scripture.

Finally, go to 2 Timothy 3:15-16; where Paul validates the rest of the Bible as being holy scripture and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.