Justification by Faith

[bbyrd009]

The believer is justified 'freely' by God's grace (unmerited favour) through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

so you say, but Scripture does not bear that out i dont think, ok?
Abraham believed Yah, Strong's Hebrew: 539. אָמַן (aman) -- to confirm, support
and it was accounted to him for righteousness fine ok, but Abraham did not yet have faith, Strong's Hebrew: 530. אֱמוּנָה, (emunah) -- firmness, steadfastness, fidelity , so while a new "believer" (which btw does not even describe you, right, not even a little bit; "beliefs" are subject to change, right) maybe gets credit, i would sure be careful saying that you know a what we call a "believer" now is still justified freely by Yah's grace, ok, bc i bet you cant Quote that anywhere, not anywhere, except possibly in english, where the faithful has been helpfully scribed into the believer for you already, ignoring that there are at least four other ways to say "believer." Bc many will cry "Lord, Lord" and i guess a whole passel of them are gonna hear I never knew you, too, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

i dont know what Bible you read .if you dismiss justified/justification your lost

dont get me wrong, justification is a fab deal for little children and other naive ignorants, like me, but there comes a point when "justification" turns bad too, same as "righteousness," Job was "righteous" but ended up repenting, twice, right.

So i suggest--iow i dont know, but i strongly suggest--that when you start talking in satan's dialect, like you are doing there, that maybe justifying might not be such a good thing ok. Really that was strictly an aside, and prolly not the best place for this discussion anyway, but if youd like to start a thread on that one we could go from there i guess

2 Timothy 2:23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
that is about what your post amounts to

well E see you are saying that with much confidence and all, but you can read the difference in their "facts" for yourself right there in post 18 right, i mean which one you hear me "quarreling" with? I got no quarrels ok, i already know to ignore them all, bc that is what Scripture tells me to do, no offense to yall ok

i dont know what Bible you read .if you dismiss justified/justification your lost

plus you pretty obviously ignored the main part of the post? Nevermind our differences of opinion on the definition of "justification" for now imo, ok,

and i am not disagreeing, Ezra, but that does not mean that you will not be judged for your works anyway, right? You are still doing works regardless, are you not? Picking up your cross is work, following is work, heck answering this post is a work, isnt it?
work while it is day...

how bout a response here wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

gee, i wonder what worm is?

 

[bbyrd009]

so while a new "believer" (which btw does not even describe you, right, not even a little bit; "beliefs" are subject to change, right)

which i dunno how clear that is, but obv a newbie, a believer, Abraham iow, they got questions, right, they dont have answers see, like yall got? Yah pls show me a single "believer" in here lol. Guess there's a couple though prolly

 

[Ezra]

dont get me wrong, justification is a fab deal for little children and other naive ignorants, like me, but there comes a point when "justification" turns bad too, same as "righteousness," Job was "righteous" but ended up repenting, twice, right.

So i suggest--iow i dont know, but i strongly suggest--that when you start talking in satan's dialect, like you are doing there, that maybe justifying might not be such a good thing ok. Really that was strictly an aside, and prolly not the best place for this discussion anyway, but if youd like to start a thread on that one we could go from there i guess

well E see you are saying that with much confidence and all, but you can read the difference in their "facts" for yourself right there in post 18 right, i mean which one you hear me "quarreling" with? I got no quarrels ok, i already know to ignore them all, bc that is what Scripture tells me to do, no offense to yall ok

plus you pretty obviously ignored the main part of the post? Nevermind our differences of opinion on the definition of "justification" for now imo, ok,


how bout a response here wadr

 

[complete]

'Therefore being justified by faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, '
and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.'
(Romans 5:1-2)

Praise God!

 

[theophilus]

yall likin each others stuff enough up there, how bout you clarify your positions a little bit, bc i sure mean no offense here but at least one a yall obv lying, right? See i cant say "mistaken" bc youre all speaking in definitives, as if you knew; so that would be lying, among grownups.

Yall realize that you would be stoned to death under the law? That that is what you deserve? i hope yall take this in the spirit intended, ok, we're all basically anonymous, here on some backwater page, just talking, no harm no foul, all preachin to the choir, and you will be forgiven. But i gotta say man im mensa smart i guess and i sure wouldnt know anything better than "all" when the Bible says all

What is unclear about our positions? It sounds to me as if we agree on this subject/

 

[stunnedbygrace]

work to make your calling and election sure though, so maybe hold on to the one and dont let go of the other or something?

Examine if you really ARE in the faith.
When I come again, WILL I find faith on the earth?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

dont get me wrong, justification is a fab deal for little children and other naive ignorants, like me, but there comes a point when "justification" turns bad too, same as "righteousness," Job was "righteous" but ended up repenting, twice, right

Great point. I sorely wish a man would come in here who understands and could explain AND I could grasp it when he did. But until then, Favour is deceitful and a woman who fears the Lord will be praised. So that's simple enough, right? And maybe, just maybe, it's the right way to go because if one wants wisdom, it begins with fear of the Lord, right?

 

[CadyandZoe]

work to make your calling and election sure though, so maybe hold on to the one and dont let go of the other or something?

What is our actual question? What is it that we really want to know? Does my moral ineptitude disqualify me from the kingdom? The answer is, "it depends." There are two ways to determine the answer (both related): 1) what do I see in my wake? and 2) what is the trajectory of my life.

8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

For this reason the judgment comes at the end of our life rather than in the middle. We can't know whether these qualities are increasing until enough time has passed for us to see the overall trajectory of our life. Not only this, but one can not know whether he lacks these qualities unless he is tested in situations where it is hard to maintain these qualities.

Peter is a prime example. Jesus told his disciples "If you deny me before men, I will deny you before my father." And yet, Peter denied Jesus twice when it really mattered. But Peter was forgiven and became a key figure in the spread of the gospel. Moral failure doesn't necessarily indicate a loss of salvation.

If I get hit in the face with a pitch, it will take all my inner strength to get back in the batter's box. Perseverance takes courage.

 

[bbyrd009]

ha, no doubt lol.
Its just all Greek to you huh, that post?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is unclear about our positions? It sounds to me as if we agree on this subject/

can yall just not even read post 18 or something? Maybe i misquoted, ill go look

ya, just nevermind, ok? Its not a big deal
And have a nice day

 

[bbyrd009]

Great point. I sorely wish a man would come in here who understands and could explain AND I could grasp it when he did. But until then, Favour is deceitful and a woman who fears the Lord will be praised. So that's simple enough, right? And maybe, just maybe, it's the right way to go because if one wants wisdom, it begins with fear of the Lord, right?

begins i guess, ya.
What is it you wish some guy understood and could explain? Not that im the guy lol, but who knows

 

[bbyrd009]

For this reason the judgment comes at the end of our life rather than in the middle.

well, so you say, but i doubt it; got a Quote for that?

 

[CadyandZoe]

well, so you say, but i doubt it; got a Quote for that?

Okay, you caught me. (smile) I was a bit sloppy wasn't I?

Remember when Jesus said, "he who doesn't believe is judged already?" The point is, while we are alive we still have time to repent and believe. Once we die, do we have a chance then?

 

[bbyrd009]

Okay, you caught me. (smile) I was a bit sloppy wasn't I?

Remember when Jesus said, "he who doesn't believe is judged already?" The point is, while we are alive we still have time to repent and believe. Once we die, do we have a chance then?

your Q tells me that you believe you might go up to heaven after you have died, to become an immortal, yes? I wish you the best of luck in your quest ok

No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal
you and your sons will be here with me
I came that you might have life, more abundantly

iow not "death, more abundantly"

 

[stunnedbygrace]

begins i guess, ya.
What is it you wish some guy understood and could explain? Not that im the guy lol, but who knows

The point where justification turns bad, where righteousness becomes not good, as you said.

 

[CadyandZoe]

your Q tells me that you believe you might go up to heaven after you have died, to become an immortal, yes? I wish you the best of luck in your quest ok

No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal
you and your sons will be here with me
I came that you might have life, more abundantly

iow not "death, more abundantly"

My question was simply conversational in nature. (grin) No, that isn't what I believe. And please forgive me for steering the conversation away from the main topic.

The bumper sticker we inherited from the Reformers is "justification by faith" and just like all other bumper stickers, one needs to know the background controversy behind it, in order to comprehend its full meaning, not only what it intends to say, but also what it doesn't intend to say.

To illustrate "justification by faith" apart from works I would like to tell two stories.

First Story:
A little girl is running through the house when suddenly she bumps an expensive vase. The vase falls crashing to the floor and breaks into several pieces. Her father is very angry, having told her not to run through the house. He scolds her and warns her once again about running through the house. Instead of spanking her, he sends her away. "Go play outside" straining to keep his mind. Much later in the afternoon, the little girl brings her father some flowers she picked from the garden. Her father is deeply touched by her gesture. He hugs her and tells her he loves her.

Second Story:
A man is celebrating at the company Christmas party when he happens to spot a secretary he has eyed over these many months. As the party progresses their better judgment is defeated by strong drink and strong attraction. That night they have an affair. Eventually the man's wife finds out, and try as she might, she can not put it behind her. That Valentine's day, her husband brings her flowers, not realizing that his wife found out about the affair. The woman tosses the flowers in the trash as she walks out of the room.

What is the difference between the girl's gesture and the husbands?

 

[amadeus]

gee, i wonder what worm is?

The one(s) that do not die so long as we continue to die so that they have something to eat... They may pick any graveyard!

 

[bbyrd009]

The point where justification turns bad, where righteousness becomes not good, as you said.

ah well maybe like Job was pious, is what might be meant by "righteous," at times, "self-righteous"

and bigger kids justify their behavior, like that