Grace is NOT unmerited favor!

[justbyfaith]

I don't know about merits, but He gave us His Spirit so we can be truly free from sin, not just a cover-up as some believe. That is the seed of the Father 1 John 3:9

There is victory when sin can no longer take advantage of the law to produce within us all manner of concupiscence.

The motions of sins are by the law; when you can get rid of the condemnation of the law, sin no longer has the power to utilize the law to bring you into sinful behaviour.

See my document:

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is victory when sin can no longer take advantage of the law to produce within us all manner of concupiscence.

The motions of sins are by the law; when you can get rid of the condemnation of the law, sin no longer has the power to utilize the law to bring you into sinful behaviour.

See my document (will post a link shortly):

I see you still have the cart before the horse. To be free from the law, we must be first freed from sin by Jesus baptizing us with the Holy Spirit. Then we have no need for the law to show us our sin when there isn't any.

Good night brother - for real this time. LOL

 

[mjrhealth]

It not my own work from a carnal nature. It is God's works through the new nature He has given me. I cannot boast in myself, only in the Lord.

If what you say was true you would not be getting so mad at everyone. Sorry, But His grace is enough. There are no perfect people walking this earth, because all are still in the flesh, whether they like it or not, and no one walks in the Spirit 100% not even the disciples did and they had Him.

 

[mjrhealth]

I see you still have the cart before the horse. To be free from the law, we must be first freed from sin by Jesus baptizing us with the Holy Spirit. Then we have no need for the law to show us our sin when there isn't any.

Good night brother - for real this time. LOL

But you see again you have it wrong, sin is not by the law, the law brought condemnation as Paul put it.

Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And Christians are not and never where under teh law at any time.

 

[justbyfaith]

I see you still have the cart before the horse. To be free from the law, we must be first freed from sin by Jesus baptizing us with the Holy Spirit. Then we have no need for the law to show us our sin when there isn't any.

Good night brother - for real this time. LOL

I don't know about you, but I've been set free from sin because of being set free from the law.

It was the truth of understanding that I'm forgiven that set me free.

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh so many people miss this little Gem,

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Di you see the " they believe not".

 

[Brakelite]

Grace is unmerited favor. But it doesn't just "cover sins so that God doesn't see them" as suggested. And yes, grace is also the partaking of the Divine nature... " Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, according as His Divine (creative) power has given to us (by grace) all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that has called us to glory and virtue, whereby we are given exceeding great and precious promises that by these we might be partakers if the Divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust....
The following few verses describe the steps we take in sanctification and in verse 9 we read...
But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I WAS ASKING CL as she mentioned the term .What does it mean?

Seriously, you don't don't know what a Calvinist is, nor the basis of five point Calvinism as encapsulated in the acronym TULIP? Man, you have some catching up to do...

 

[Randy Kluth]

You've heard of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I'm not speaking of the gifts, but the power of grace we receive to be dead to sin.

NT Salvation and the Gift of the Spirit are virtually synonymous in NT teaching, although they can be distinguished. Ideally, they happen simultaneously. You receive Christ, and he gives you the Holy Spirit.

But we know there are those who receive Christ, and receive the Holy Spirit in a less than complete way, being ignorant of what the new life in Christ is supposed to be. All men can do good, because God gives all men the capacity to obey Him. But God wants even more than mere obedience a commitment to live a good life--one that is always led by the Spirit.

This new life requires the gift of the Spirit, and not just the ability to do good. The new life from Christ is living by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit all the time, and not just when a person decides he wants to obey God. It is acceptance of a full commitment.

When a full commitment to Christ is made, the Holy Spirit is the source that is drawn upon always because he indwells the believer as a permanent possession--not that we own the Holy Spirit, but that we own the covenant that makes Him always available to us.

The Holy Spirit, therefore, enables us to obey Christ all the time, as well as witness to Christ in front of the world. It is an empowerment to live in righteousness, and an empowerment to show the world what living in Christ looks like.

Peter says we receive the Spirit when we truly repent and want to be truly freed from the sin nature that separates us from God. Acts of the Apostles 2:38. Receiving the Spirit is a gift from Jesus. It is not something that we can give ourselves. The baptism of the Spirit is what is meant by being born again. Yes, we must walk in it, but it is all Christ doing the work in us and through us from then on. The baptism of the Spirit is the seed of the Father in us. 1 John 3:9

Obeying God, whether from Spirit-filled Christian or from a non-believer, relies upon the power of God. Yes, even unbelievers may unconsciously obey God when God's word speaks within their conscience, and they consent to live by that word. This does not save them, but it does enable the world to do the right thing. Otherwise, there would be total chaos!

I do not agree with the notion that those who lived under the Law only did so artificially. Even unbelievers, as well as believers under the Law, did good authentically. The purpose of Salvation was to make a full commitment in faith by distributing to believers the Holy Spirit, rendering their new life an eternal life. That is, it rendered the commitment of those under the Law to God a permanent commitment, resulting not just in temporal deliverances in this life, but more, eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There is no one who truly merits eternal life except for Jesus Christ; and He took our sin penalty upon Himself and transferred His merits unto us.

You've taken my words out of context. I was not speaking of meriting eternal life in the sense of *earning* eternal life by our works, or by appropriating redemption from sin by ourselves. If you will re-read what I said, the sense of "meriting eternal life" has to do with meeting the conditions necessary in order to *qualify* for eternal life. If you don't think you need to qualify for eternal life, you're under a terrible delusion!

 

[CharismaticLady]

If what you say was true you would not be getting so mad at everyone. Sorry, But His grace is enough. There are no perfect people walking this earth, because all are still in the flesh, whether they like it or not, and no one walks in the Spirit 100% not even the disciples did and they had Him.

I'm mad only because of the false doctrines out there that people gobble up are leading people to hell. I don't want that! Ignorance may be bliss for them, but it will end, and be too late.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But you see again you have it wrong, sin is not by the law, the law brought condemnation as Paul put it.

Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And Christians are not and never where under teh law at any time.

That is true, but we are no longer under the law of Moses, but the law of the Spirit. We are not lawless! THAT is what I've been trying to show you.

cc: @justbyfaith

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I'm mad only because of the false doctrines out there that people gobble up are leading people to hell. I don't want that! Ignorance may be bliss for them, but it will end, and be too late.

you are promoting false doctrine.
your reaction to the christian in romans 7 is telling.
i challenge you to work through that article and explain line by line what you believe it is wrong.
it will highlight your error,then we can can help you come to truth.

 

[justbyfaith]

You've taken my words out of context. I was not speaking of meriting eternal life in the sense of *earning* eternal life by our works, or by appropriating redemption from sin by ourselves. If you will re-read what I said, the sense of "meriting eternal life" has to do with meeting the conditions necessary in order to *qualify* for eternal life. If you don't think you need to qualify for eternal life, you're under a terrible delusion!

We do not come to God on the basis of our own merits, even if you define merits as conditions necessary to qualify for eternal life.

The only condition that is necessary is faith in Jesus (John 6:28-29). We come to God on the basis of His merits.

 

[CharismaticLady]

you are promoting false doctrine.
your reaction to the christian in romans 7 is telling.
i challenge you to work through that article and explain line by line what you believe it is wrong.
it will highlight your error,then we can can help you come to truth.

That isn't a Christian in Romans 7:14-23 It is a Jew under the law of Moses before Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think grace is unmerited favor. Otherwise it wouldn't be grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is true, but we are no longer under the law of Moses, but the law of the Spirit. We are not lawless! THAT is what I've been trying to show you.

cc: @justbyfaith

I agree that we are not lawless.

Even though we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6); this does not make us lawless.

For we are governed by the law of faith (Romans 3:27).

And also, the law of the Lord is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16).

We have been given the Spirit, who sheds abroad His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5) so that we fulfill the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4). For this love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). It is the fruit of the Spirit, against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

Therefore the scripture stands true:

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

For we receive the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and not by the keeping of the law (Galatians 3:1-9).

We are therefore no longer condemned by the law from the outside, as being written on tablets of stone. But we are governed by it from the inside, as being written on fleshy tables of human hearts.

It is the love of God through obedience to the Holy Spirit that fulfills the righteousness of the Lord within us (Romans 8:4).

It is not through attempting to keep a set of do's and don'ts that we obtain our obedience as NT believers. Rather, through abiding in the vine, we draw up nourishment from the vine; and this results in holy living because the sap is holy.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I agree that we are not lawless.

Even though we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6); this does not make us lawless.

For we are governed by the law of faith (Romans 3:27).

And also, the law of the Lord is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16).

We have been given the Spirit, who sheds abroad His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5) so that we fulfill the law (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4). For this love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). It is the fruit of the Spirit, against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

Therefore the scripture stands true:

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

For we receive the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and not by the keeping of the law (Galatians 3:1-9).

We are therefore no longer condemned by the law from the outside, as being written on tablets of stone. But we are governed by it from the inside, as being written on fleshy tables of human hearts.

It is the love of God through obedience to the Holy Spirit that fulfills the righteousness of the Lord within us (Romans 8:4).

It is not through attempting to keep a set of do's and don'ts that we obtain our obedience as NT believers. Rather, through abiding in the vine, we draw up nourishment from the vine; and this results in holy living because the sap is holy.

I prefer to call it the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has set me free from the law of sin and death.

You see, just like "grace" many have a warped misconception of "faith." Some think if they have faith that Jesus is the Son of God they will be saved. Even the demons know that. Only with true faith is there obedience.

 

[Randy Kluth]

We do not come to God on the basis of our own merits, even if you define merits as conditions necessary to qualify for eternal life.

The only condition that is necessary is faith in Jesus (John 6:28-29). We come to God on the basis of His merits.

You have just declared that you have a condition by which you "merit" eternal life! I was saying that there are qualifications by which we obtain eternal life. Meeting these conditions is synonymous with "meriting."

You are using "meriting" in the technical sense of paying for your own redemption. I specifically avoided saying this. This is called "bickering over words."

 

[justbyfaith]

I prefer to call it the law of the Spirit of life in Christ

This and the law of faith are one and the same; the terminology of both can be used to describe what I am talking about.

You see, just like "grace" many have a warped misconception of "faith." Some think if they have faith that Jesus is the Son of God they will be saved. Even the demons know that. Only with true faith is there obedience.

Actually, the scripture teaches the following:

1Jo 4:15, Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:4, For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:5, Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?