Mary, Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,442
1,699
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are assuming that she can hear you and the billion others. The New Covenant provides that we are no longer separated from God, and can pray to Him directly through Jesus Christ, the one and ONLY mediator. The false belief that a dead human can hear you is straight from paganism and a sin.
The Church agrees with you that we can pray to Him directly through Jesus. That does not negate a persons soul that is already in heaven ability to pray for me. It is my soul that prays...not my flesh. It can be both. It does not have to be one or the other. If you say it can only be one you are putting man made restraints on God's ability.

It sounds as if you believe that my soul, which is still inside my flesh and will die one day, can ask God for prayers but the soul of Mary (or other 'dead' people in heaven) can't ask God for prayers? Those 'dead' people (their souls) are already in heaven and closer to God than I am right now but THEY can't pray for me?

I am not trying to change your mind. Just hoping you can see how The Church came to this doctrine and has been teaching it for 2,000 years. The teaching you are repeating is about 500 years old.

Respectfully, Mary
 
  • Like
Reactions: historyb

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Hey hey hey don't pick on my Aussie mate... LoL...
Just joking... So... Anything new?
Serie A football recently stated up again. Typical Italians. LoL

How is everyone on that forum? Has Kiwidan chilled out now that he can go fishing? How's April? She was the funniest. Send her my good wishes
Oh my!!!
I just realized who you are!
I even called you Christ the King!

Yeah. Football is back but with no fans at the games.
Kiwidan has his moment, but he's a good kid.
He's thinking of getting married.
:eek:

I'll give April your regards.
She's good...you know her.

And as to your problem,,,,nothing could be done.
Someone else had the same problem but it just can't
be fixed. John was sorry and misses you.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
The Church agrees with you that we can pray to Him directly through Jesus. That does not negate a persons soul that is already in heaven ability to pray for me. It is my soul that prays...not my flesh. It can be both. It does not have to be one or the other. If you say it can only be one you are putting man made restraints on God's ability.

It sounds as if you believe that my soul, which is still inside my flesh and will die one day, can ask God for prayers but the soul of Mary (or other 'dead' people in heaven) can't ask God for prayers? Those 'dead' people (their souls) are already in heaven and closer to God than I am right now but THEY can't pray for me?

I am not trying to change your mind. Just hoping you can see how The Church came to this doctrine and has been teaching it for 2,000 years. The teaching you are repeating is about 500 years old.

Respectfully, Mary
Hi MM,
I understand about the Communion of Saints.
I just have a problem with the idea that saints could hear our prayers.
They can't be everywhere like God can.
The only book I can think of where it states something about speaking to the dead is Macdabees.
You really think they could hear us?
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,831
25,505
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
AND now I remember why I originally came into this thread... It was to state that if this was a Catholic or Word of Faith Based site that I would quietly just remove my membership... I was commenting on your post @Josho.... What a mess... LOL... Never again... Catholicism is a topic I will not discuss... I will blame this on being NEW... LOL

So sorry for misspelling your name @Josho ... I clicked on his name a few times.. so I must have gotten it right a couple times... Names are very important... Maybe I was subliminally trying to communicate... Josh.. NO... don't make posts about Catholicism... thus Joshno... lol

It's a learning curve on here, lol! Ya learn to pick your battles so to speak...I stay away as much as I can from political threads and the other controversial ones as well. Although, sometimes it's kind of hard to NOT peek in once in awhile....only to find that...yep..blood pressure is up, time to exit stage left!
 
Last edited:

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,442
1,699
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Mary? Why? I’d like David to pray with me. Nothing against Mary but that David sure has a way with words. And was a man after Gods own heart.
I would like him to pray with you also. You should ask him to. After all his perfected soul is in heaven with God. My imperfect soul is still on earth hoping to be in heaven someday.

If you think this imperfect soul can do more for you than a perfect soul....that is your right to believe it. That doesn't mean you are right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Philip James

historyb

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2011
2,990
2,701
113
52
in a house
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Only God is omnipresent. Even satan is not omnipresent.
So how could Mary or any other person the CC has declared to be a saint, possibly hear us?

I had the same question once and they hear us because God enables them to in His beatific vision. Now I think I got that right but it was a while ago I heard the explanation and if I am wrong maybe @BreadOfLife can give a better answer :)
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,442
1,699
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi MM,
I understand about the Communion of Saints.
I just have a problem with the idea that saints could hear our prayers.
They can't be everywhere like God can.
The only book I can think of where it states something about speaking to the dead is Macdabees.
You really think they could hear us?
Thank you GG,

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well.

In Revelation 5:8 John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” I believe if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers.

I believe a soul standing in the glory of God that is perfect enough to be in heaven can do more for you or me than the imperfect soul that is still trapped in flesh.

It is my soul that prays for you; not my body. If my soul can no longer pray for you when I am in heaven then has my soul (or that part of my soul) died?

Respectfully, Mary
 

historyb

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2011
2,990
2,701
113
52
in a house
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Unfortunately in some Protestant churches in my experience it has been common practice to speak negatively of the Catholic Church without any specific reasons or sound teaching on it based even on the Bible. Many of the people there and in the Catholic Church too simply go along with the human leadership on some things never studying about it or praying about it themselves. I have had such experiences both as a Catholic and after my own separation from Catholicism. God is always right, but too many people in too many places do not really seek God's opinion on the subject before opening their mouths. There are of course also many who presume that my leader or my pastor or my priest says it and therefore it must be true.

I was trying to figure out what Church I wanted to be a part of after I left the Catholic Church and the pastor of a Church I visited put down the Catholic Church. After the service I talked to him and he could not come up with a real reason except they were Catholic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Cristo Rei

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2020
6,156
5,558
113
46
In Christ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Oh my!!!
I just realized who you are!
I even called you Christ the King!

Yeah. Football is back but with no fans at the games.
Kiwidan has his moment, but he's a good kid.
He's thinking of getting married.
:eek:

I'll give April your regards.
She's good...you know her.

And as to your problem,,,,nothing could be done.
Someone else had the same problem but it just can't
be fixed. John was sorry and misses you.

Kiwidan is thinking of getting married... :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: (Ordinary emojis on here...)
Wasn't he a single man a couple of months ago???
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
So.... When Josho wakes up... and comes in here... I just want him to know that I made SNACKS... and... I vacuumed the carpet... I left this space CLEAN as a WHISTLE...

AWE... I am DANCING like DAVID danced.... OH @amadeus ... you just kissed my heart... THANK YOU... This little lamb is a WORSHIPPER.

Ha... I keep adding to this post... Amadeus... this was a beautiful video.

Ok... one last comment... before the end of my day.... I have 18 points... My question is... IF I save all my points till Christmas... Do I get a FREE TURKEY ??? Just wondering... LOL Be nice everyone... and smile... JESUS LOVES YOU!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,519
31,707
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I was trying to figure out what Church I wanted to be a part of after I left the Catholic Church and the pastor of a Church I visited put down the Catholic Church. After the service I talked to him and he could not come up with a real reason except they were Catholic.
This is probably often true of the rank and file members. It should not be that way with someone really called by God to hold a ministerial position, such as a pastor. That we encounter some like that could mean that they were never really called at all or that they have failed to properly pursue their calling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: historyb

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,277
5,337
113
66
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please guys don’t act like this is hard to figure out. The Holy Bible documents the first 65 years of Christianity. If you look at the history of it there are groups that look at that as the most accurate and the most pure. So their religious beliefs focus on the Holy Bible….mostly. Either unknowing to them or they have assumed many things….the fact is many things have come about after the close of the Bible that are very different than what is in the Bible, or not in the Bible and have been included it modern Protestant religions…Catholic to for that matter. For example;
Christ nor the NT, did not denounce slavery.
Christ nor the NT, did not denounce polygamy.
Christ nor the NT, did not address concubinage.
Christ nor the NT, did not address men marrying girls in their early teens.
Christ nor the NT, did not campaign for women's rights.
Christ nor the NT, did not address fathers choosing their daughter's husbands.
Christ nor the NT, did not require marriage ceremonies.
It took Christianity a long time to value Freedom and Liberty.


As time went on the Holy Spirit taught us additional moral values. So as a person that believes in the "Living Word of God" this is no mystery to me. 2000 years and the Living Word of God still has things to teach us. The people that are going to have the most problem with this are those that think that the Bible defined all aspects and beliefs of Christianity. That the Holy Bible is the final word for Christianity. That is not true, 2000 years has passed and the Holy Spirit has taught us many things after the close of the Bible. This was one of the functions of the Holy Spirit that Christ told us about. Is there a possibility that God stopped talking to us or stop interacting with us for 2000 years?....And the Protestant got it right after 1600 years?

Well on the other side of the coin there are religions that existed before Protestantism and Fundamentalist and they documented around 2000 years of God communicating, interacting, visitations and miracles of all kinds. New information…no understandings…. Miriam is just one of many that have been well witnessed.

That is another issue with Fundamentalism, when there are 30,000 renditions of the Holy Bible. If it were a traffic manual it would not be safe to drive. Some Protestants do not believe in miracles, some do not believe in the spiritual side of Baptism, some don’t believe in the spiritual side of the Bread and Wine ritual. Some do not believe in the movements of the Holy Spirit or the tongues thereof…No agreement!!! And some have contributed every characteristic of Satan to God. And ultimately have developed a religion where righteousness is based on what you don’t do.

Functionally Fundamentalism, regardless of what biblical translation is used… mostly…saves souls and that is what matters. They are sitting in safety seat…Love God and one another. Whys mess it up? But when their condemning natures reach out to discuss religions that are beyond them…because most don’t even know the history, this is a problem. Condemning, judging, and insinuating that others are not Christian or their religion is idolatry…. The debate is, when you are sitting in front of Christ…Is this condemning… can be...will it be what functionally define your punishment, is it worse than murder? All the things you didn't do, is it going to matter? Look at the scriptures. And as you stand before Christ and He asks you, “What did you say about my mother?”

I have not spoke in tongues, put I have seen the movements and the tongues and the prophecies and healings of the Holy Spirit. But I also have had a visitation by Miriam…very clear and distinct…and that visitation had a very strong impact on ten men.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I had the same question once and they hear us because God enables them to in His beatific vision. Now I think I got that right but it was a while ago I heard the explanation and if I am wrong maybe @BreadOfLife can give a better answer :)
It's OK historyb....
I don't need to hear from breadoflife.
Anything he says will be conjecture.
I think someone just has to accept it or not.

I wonder how anyone could be happy up in heaven if they could see us down here!
But, yes, God can do whatever He wants to...I just don't read anywhere His instruction to pray
to others.

Jesus said to pray:
OUR FATHER.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Please guys don’t act like this is hard to figure out. The Holy Bible documents the first 65 years of Christianity. If you look at the history of it there are groups that look at that as the most accurate and the most pure. So their religious beliefs focus on the Holy Bible….mostly. Either unknowing to them or they have assumed many things….the fact is many things have come about after the close of the Bible that are very different than what is in the Bible, or not in the Bible and have been included it modern Protestant religions…Catholic to for that matter. For example;
Christ nor the NT, did not denounce slavery.
Christ nor the NT, did not denounce polygamy.
Christ nor the NT, did not address concubinage.
Christ nor the NT, did not address men marrying girls in their early teens.
Christ nor the NT, did not campaign for women's rights.
Christ nor the NT, did not address fathers choosing their daughter's husbands.
Christ nor the NT, did not require marriage ceremonies.
It took Christianity a long time to value Freedom and Liberty.


As time went on the Holy Spirit taught us additional moral values. So as a person that believes in the "Living Word of God" this is no mystery to me. 2000 years and the Living Word of God still has things to teach us. The people that are going to have the most problem with this are those that think that the Bible defined all aspects and beliefs of Christianity. That the Holy Bible is the final word for Christianity. That is not true, 2000 years has passed and the Holy Spirit has taught us many things after the close of the Bible. This was one of the functions of the Holy Spirit that Christ told us about. Is there a possibility that God stopped talking to us or stop interacting with us for 2000 years?....And the Protestant got it right after 1600 years?

Well on the other side of the coin there are religions that existed before Protestantism and Fundamentalist and they documented around 2000 years of God communicating, interacting, visitations and miracles of all kinds. New information…no understandings…. Miriam is just one of many that have been well witnessed.

That is another issue with Fundamentalism, when there are 30,000 renditions of the Holy Bible. If it were a traffic manual it would not be safe to drive. Some Protestants do not believe in miracles, some do not believe in the spiritual side of Baptism, some don’t believe in the spiritual side of the Bread and Wine ritual. Some do not believe in the movements of the Holy Spirit or the tongues thereof…No agreement!!! And some have contributed every characteristic of Satan to God. And ultimately have developed a religion where righteousness is based on what you don’t do.

Functionally Fundamentalism, regardless of what biblical translation is used… mostly…saves souls and that is what matters. They are sitting in safety seat…Love God and one another. Whys mess it up? But when their condemning natures reach out to discuss religions that are beyond them…because most don’t even know the history, this is a problem. Condemning, judging, and insinuating that others are not Christian or their religion is idolatry…. The debate is, when you are sitting in front of Christ…Is this condemning… can be...will it be what functionally define your punishment, is it worse than murder? All the things you didn't do, is it going to matter? Look at the scriptures. And as you stand before Christ and He asks you, “What did you say about my mother?”

I have not spoke in tongues, put I have seen the movements and the tongues and the prophecies and healings of the Holy Spirit. But I also have had a visitation by Miriam…very clear and distinct…and that visitation had a very strong impact on ten men.
Hi Grailhunter...
Agreed on all,
BUT
I can't remember any of the early fathers stating we should pray to the Apostles, for instance.
Saints came pretty soon afterwards. Saints in the N.T. meant something different.
Anyway, Catholics are not taught to pray to saints like to God,,,
but, actually, some here do anyway because they're old time catholics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,519
31,707
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So.... When Josho wakes up... and comes in here... I just want him to know that I made SNACKS... and... I vacuumed the carpet... I left this space CLEAN as a WHISTLE...

AWE... I am DANCING like DAVID danced.... OH @amadeus ... you just kissed my heart... THANK YOU... This little lamb is a WORSHIPPER.

Ha... I keep adding to this post... Amadeus... this was a beautiful video.

Ok... one last comment... before the end of my day.... I have 18 points... My question is... IF I save all my points till Christmas... Do I get a FREE TURKEY ??? Just wondering... LOL Be nice everyone... and smile... JESUS LOVES YOU!
I learned that song in the very first Pentecostal church of which I was a member [beginning in 1976]. It touched my heart then and I have never forgotten it.

Forget about the points. It may not add up to much more than heart burn [pre-turkey or post-turkey]!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Pisteuo

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Thank you GG,

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well.

In Revelation 5:8 John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” I believe if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers.

I believe a soul standing in the glory of God that is perfect enough to be in heaven can do more for you or me than the imperfect soul that is still trapped in flesh.

It is my soul that prays for you; not my body. If my soul can no longer pray for you when I am in heaven then has my soul (or that part of my soul) died?

Respectfully, Mary
I've never studied Revelation and most probably never will...
although I read a great book about it by Scott Hahn...THE LAMB'S SUPPER.

Anyway, OK, you can still pray for me in heaven...I agree about your idea re our spirit still being alive (of course). But will YOU be able to hear ME? I just don't really understand how the CC comes to this conclusion, but you don't have to explain it. I could go through the CCC tomorrow.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
10,727
5,716
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
So.... When Josho wakes up... and comes in here... I just want him to know that I made SNACKS... and... I vacuumed the carpet... I left this space CLEAN as a WHISTLE...

AWE... I am DANCING like DAVID danced.... OH @amadeus ... you just kissed my heart... THANK YOU... This little lamb is a WORSHIPPER.

Ha... I keep adding to this post... Amadeus... this was a beautiful video.

Ok... one last comment... before the end of my day.... I have 18 points... My question is... IF I save all my points till Christmas... Do I get a FREE TURKEY ??? Just wondering... LOL Be nice everyone... and smile... JESUS LOVES YOU!
A free turkey!
You get an all-expense paid trip to Israel !
Silly girl....
:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus
Status
Not open for further replies.