The Supernatural, paranormal and the artificial

[Giuliano]

Rebellion is never the answer. Did David lift his hand against Saul?

Peace!

I agree. I believe if God wants to remove replace authority He established, He does not ask His servants to do it. He removes His protection and then sinful men overthrow that authority.

 

[historyb]

that our Lord entrusted to the apostles and they to the bishops the authority (and the responsibility) to watch over the flock and keep them from just such false shephards..
Everything must be tested under obedience..

Agree!

 

[Giuliano]

It seems that 'wisdom' and 'discernment' go hand in hand. God say's:
James 1:5
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."

Wisdom would naturally lead to discernment, I would think.
JMO

Yes.

I think there may be different definitions for the Greek word translated as "discerning" in the KJV of 2 Corinthians 12:10. Anyone should be able to gain wisdom and the type of discernment that enables him to tell the difference between good spirits and bad ones. The other type of "discernment" is one of judgment, exercising judicial authority. I think "judging spirits" is a gift. I think the NMB got this one right.

NMB 2 Corinthians 12:10 to another power to do miracles, to another prophecy, to another judgment of spirits, to another divers tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

 

[Josho]

How can the Christian who lacks the "gift of discernment" know who to trust and who not to trust? How can people prevent themselves from falling prey to false shepherds if they lack "discernment"?

I believe the answer is from Matthew 7:16 "you will know them by their fruits," so if someone claims to have the gift of discernment, but they lack love, or they don't have much compassion, then it's probably best not trusting those sort of people, but if you can tell that they are really are showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self Control) then you can trust them.

I know it's getting harder and harder to find other Christians that you can trust, but there are still some.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Giuliano as I said this thread is starting of with the basics.

Every Christian should know or learn the difference between a prophet and a psychic, they should know the difference between going to Jesus for healing and going to a witchdoctor for healing.

These are the basics mate, Christians should know the differences between these things, and if they don't, this is why this thread is here.

Define prophet, please.

 

[Waiting on him]

It seems that 'wisdom' and 'discernment' go hand in hand. God say's:
James 1:5
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."

Wisdom would naturally lead to discernment, I would think.
JMO

And your opinion would be correct,

Luke 7:45 KJV
Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

Wisdom is justified of all her children

 

[Josho]

Now for category 3, do not let this category throw you off, but what I am about to post does happen a lot.

Self - It was honestly hard finding what to name this category, and it may not even be the most appropriate name, but i decided to call it "Self", which relates to our own thoughts, our own imaginations and yep in some cases even being gullible, some Christians relate way too much to the supernatural.

Thoughts and imaginations (I don't know whether if I am word this right, haha, so please forgive me if I don't) - sometimes we can mistaken our own thoughts and imaginations for God's voice.

Thoughts and imaginations also can also be related to someone being gullible, hehehe, I am sure some of you have heard this stuff. I will give a major recent example though, did anyone see, hear the video of the Golden Gate Bridge recently? Maybe we have some members who even live around that area that heard the sound, many Pentecostal and charismatic Christians were saying it was the sound of trumpets or angels or a heavenly noise.

Here is a video, this noise could be heard from across the bay.

After doing some fact checking, it was actually a new modification to the bridge, and when the wind blows through the bridge, with these new modifications, the bridge makes a humming sound, some new sidewalk railings were installed onto the Golden Gate Bridge, and when the wind blew through, that's what was making the noise. Why the Golden Gate Bridge made strange noises with the wind Friday

Other examples, now there are real genuine supernatural instances, but there are also natural occurrences of lights being reflected onto ceilings and walls of Churches, some people get all excited and jump to conclusions about these lights being angels, but in some cases it is the sun reflecting of some tree leaves, or maybe windows, and then it reflects onto the walls and ceilings.

And then there is the artificial, did you know people can try and manufacture signs and wonders, a few do sadly try to manufacture being hit by the Holy Spirit, some will manufacture tongues, some will manufacture the shakes and some will even manufacture being slain in the Spirit, and in these cases this is people doing it themselves, making them self do it.

And then there is the shocking cases, there are a lot of Christians that do not understand mental health illnesses, some do not even have a basic understanding of mental health problems, I am talking about things like depression, some Christians will jump to conclusions and confuse mental health illnesses with someone being demonically possessed, some will try to deliver them from demons when the person is not actually demon possessed, but really they have just went through some rough circumstances and have suffered a mental illness as a result. As a result a person is not recovered and ends up walking away from the Church, with trust damaged. This is why it's so important that we have Christians that operate in the gifts of discernment and words of knowledge, these are 2 very important spiritual gifts, we need believers that can accurately diagnose someone's problems, we cannot just play the guessing game or make assumptions.

 

[Waiting on him]

Now for category 3, do not let this category throw you off, but what I am about to post does happen a lot.

Self - It was honestly hard finding what to name this category, and it may not even be the most appropriate name, but i decided to call it "Self", which relates to our own thoughts, our own imaginations and yep in some cases even being gullible, some Christians relate way too much to the supernatural.

Thoughts and imaginations (I don't know whether if I am word this right, haha, so please forgive me if I don't) - sometimes we can mistaken our own thoughts and imaginations for God's voice.

Thoughts and imaginations also can also be related to someone being gullible, hehehe, I am sure some of you have heard this stuff. I will give a major recent example though, did anyone see, hear the video of the Golden Gate Bridge recently? Maybe we have some members who even live around that area that heard the sound, many Pentecostal and charismatic Christians were saying it was the sound of trumpets or angels or a heavenly noise.

Here is a video, this noise could be heard from across the bay.

After doing some fact checking, it was actually a new modification to the bridge, and when the wind blows through the bridge, with these new modifications, the bridge makes a humming sound, some new sidewalk railings were installed onto the Golden Gate Bridge, and when the wind blew through, that's what was making the noise. Why the Golden Gate Bridge made strange noises with the wind Friday

Other examples, now there are real genuine supernatural instances, but there are also natural occurrences of lights being reflected onto ceilings and walls of Churches, some people get all excited and jump to conclusions about these lights being angels, but in some cases it is the sun reflecting of some tree leaves, or maybe windows, and then it reflects onto the walls and ceilings.

And then there is the artificial, did you know people can try and manufacture signs and wonders, a few do sadly try to manufacture being hit by the Holy Spirit, some will manufacture tongues, some will manufacture the shakes and some will even manufacture being slain in the Spirit, and in these cases this is people doing it themselves, making them self do it.

And then there is the shocking cases, there are a lot of Christians that do not understand mental health illnesses, some do not even have a basic understanding of mental health problems, I am talking about things like depression, some Christians will jump to conclusions and confuse mental health illnesses with someone being demonically possessed, some will try to deliver them from demons when the person is not actually demon possessed, but really they have just went through some rough circumstances and have suffered a mental illness as a result. As a result a person is not recovered and ends up walking away from the Church, with trust damaged. This is why it's so important that we have Christians that operate in the gifts of discernment and words of knowledge, these are 2 very important spiritual gifts, we need believers that can accurately diagnose someone's problems, we cannot just play the guessing game or make assumptions.

Maybe it just simply all comes down to two questions
Do you have faith in God
Do you require a sign
?

 

[Josho]

Define prophet, please.

The answer can be found in this verse.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

God is still revealing secrets to the prophets today. And it isn't always ear tickling news.

 

[Josho]

Maybe it just simply all comes down to two questions
Do you have faith in God
Do you require a sign
?

Yes I do have faith in God and some people do require signs, Thomas required a sign, signs from God are not to be detested, they are great for building up faith, they are also great for sharing the good news of what God has done in your life. I was a Christian before I experienced the first miraculous healing I received.

 

[Joseph77]

I agree. I believe if God wants to remove replace authority He established, He does not ask His servants to do it. He removes His protection and then sinful men overthrow that authority.

God did not establish the anti-christs, nor the false christiandom world church.
Escaping that false gospel deception is essential for life, as God Directs.

 

[Nancy]

Now for category 3, do not let this category throw you off, but what I am about to post does happen a lot.

Self - It was honestly hard finding what to name this category, and it may not even be the most appropriate name, but i decided to call it "Self", which relates to our own thoughts, our own imaginations and yep in some cases even being gullible, some Christians relate way too much to the supernatural.

Thoughts and imaginations (I don't know whether if I am word this right, haha, so please forgive me if I don't) - sometimes we can mistaken our own thoughts and imaginations for God's voice.

Thoughts and imaginations also can also be related to someone being gullible, hehehe, I am sure some of you have heard this stuff. I will give a major recent example though, did anyone see, hear the video of the Golden Gate Bridge recently? Maybe we have some members who even live around that area that heard the sound, many Pentecostal and charismatic Christians were saying it was the sound of trumpets or angels or a heavenly noise.

Here is a video, this noise could be heard from across the bay.

After doing some fact checking, it was actually a new modification to the bridge, and when the wind blows through the bridge, with these new modifications, the bridge makes a humming sound, some new sidewalk railings were installed onto the Golden Gate Bridge, and when the wind blew through, that's what was making the noise. Why the Golden Gate Bridge made strange noises with the wind Friday

Other examples, now there are real genuine supernatural instances, but there are also natural occurrences of lights being reflected onto ceilings and walls of Churches, some people get all excited and jump to conclusions about these lights being angels, but in some cases it is the sun reflecting of some tree leaves, or maybe windows, and then it reflects onto the walls and ceilings.

And then there is the artificial, did you know people can try and manufacture signs and wonders, a few do sadly try to manufacture being hit by the Holy Spirit, some will manufacture tongues, some will manufacture the shakes and some will even manufacture being slain in the Spirit, and in these cases this is people doing it themselves, making them self do it.

And then there is the shocking cases, there are a lot of Christians that do not understand mental health illnesses, some do not even have a basic understanding of mental health problems, I am talking about things like depression, some Christians will jump to conclusions and confuse mental health illnesses with someone being demonically possessed, some will try to deliver them from demons when the person is not actually demon possessed, but really they have just went through some rough circumstances and have suffered a mental illness as a result. As a result a person is not recovered and ends up walking away from the Church, with trust damaged. This is why it's so important that we have Christians that operate in the gifts of discernment and words of knowledge, these are 2 very important spiritual gifts, we need believers that can accurately diagnose someone's problems, we cannot just play the guessing game or make assumptions.

Well said Josho,
I was once one of those "pretenders", with "tongues". I just wanted to be such a part of Gods Church and nothing "just came out" it was me all along. And, when the pastor tried to "slay me in the Spirit" (still do not see that as biblical or edifying the body) he pushed, hard and I was not about to fall under his power...I think he got mad. I was told I did not have the faith!!! Wow. I agree with every single thing you say here and have known it for sometime now. I do not usually get on these kinds of threads as, i do not know and will not say one way or another on the gifts until or unless The Lord shows me, I don't follow men.
xo

 

[Waiting on him]

A review of Luke 7 shows us the kind of generation that Jesus was dealing with, questioning as to rather he was a prophet or not. All though He repeatedly gave miraculous signs and wonders they lacked faith. Faith according to scripture is a gift of the Holy Spirit, the woman that couldn't stop kissing His feet was convicted of her sin by none other than the Spirit of God, while all those sitting there observing had not a clue of their state. They had 0 discernment 0 wisdom, they were dead.

 

[Joseph77]

It seems that 'wisdom' and 'discernment' go hand in hand. God say's:
James 1:5
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."

Wisdom would naturally lead to discernment, I would think.

Perhaps.
What is written in Scripture about discernment ?
I think it is a gift,
and somewhere it is written, it comes with or is given when someone honors God's Word (Torah).
God's Word is what is able , like a sharp sword, differentiate / illumine/ even the goals and motives/ desires of the heart...

 

[Waiting on him]

The answer can be found in this verse.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

God is still revealing secrets to the prophets today, the prophet's job is to pass what is revealed by God to the people. And it isn't always ear tickling news.

God and I have an open door policy, an intimate relationship there's nothing I can't share with Him or vise versa.

This was accomplished 2000 years ago on a hill.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I have decided to make a new thread for this topic.

Please try not to debate here, this thread is hopefully going to help some members understand more about the supernatural and that not every spirit is from God and that also not everything is supernatural. This thread is going to start of at a basic level though, the more obvious things, as some people need to know the basics. And I am just going to try to keep it simple for the first post.

Now being a topic about the supernatural.

There are 2 main categories of the supernatural.

1 - the Godly (From God) - We will talk about God, The Lord Jesus, The Holy Spirit, what is God capable of in today's world, miracles from God, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, supernatural gifts from God, angels that are messengers of God, how God can work through people's lives.

2 - the demonic (From the Devil) - We will talk about Satan, the demonic, how Satan can use people, how he can deceive people, about how the devil can disguise himself as an angel of light, false signs and wonders (yes they do exist), black magic, witchcraft and how it differs to miracles.

We can also add this category. As it can be confused.

3 - Self (Thoughts, imaginations, non-supernatural works in the natural flesh, this may also include some works which aren't led by God)


Now I will just post a quick summary, and I will start of with the first category.

1 - The Godly (From God or of God) - There is obviously God, The Lord Jesus, The Holy Spirit, in the Bible there is the greatest miracle of all. Jesus dying on the cross as an ultimate sacrifice that our sins may be washed away by His blood, that we may be forgiven and have eternal life if we choose to Believe in Him, He then resurrected on the 3rd day, another supernatural miracle from God. We also read about Lazarus being raised from the dead, we remember Jesus said "Lazarus come forth" and Lazarus arose, Eutychus was also raised from the dead in Acts 20:7-12, he was the man that fell out of the window, God worked a miracle through Paul Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “He’s alive!” there are also a few other examples of the raising of the dead in the Bible, when Jesus died on the cross, there was a great earthquake and people rose up from their graves. All of us also recall the splitting of the Red Sea, that was a miracle from God, striking the rock and water coming out, that was a miracle from God, manna from Heaven that was a miracle from God, feeding of the 5000 another miracle from God.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are also from God.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

There are also angels from God, these angels are sent to bring messages from God, some are sent to protect us and watch over our lives, some people see them, some don't, but there angels watching over many of our lives, an example we know angel Gabriel was sent to Mary by God. We also know that God sends angels to protect us.

Psalm 91:11-12 NLT

11 For he will order his angels
to protect you wherever you go.
12 They will hold you up with their hands
so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.

And some dreams and visions also come from God, God still talks to His sheep, His sheep still here His voice, the Holy Spirit can still lead us and direct us which way to go, what to do.

And all these supernatural miracles, signs and wonders, prophecies, words of knowledge, speaking in tongues, interpretations from God can still happen today, as you may have seen, read, heard some testimonies of God's great power and may have even experienced it for yourself.

Hi, Josh, good thread! Christians do indeed need to be able to discern which spirits we are dealing with--whether good or evil.

I would just make one suggestion for your thread. I would change the "demonic/witchcraft" category in your second post to "demonic/occult." The occult is a broader topic than witchcraft. Witchcraft is a part of the occult, but not all occult is considered witchcraft. Using the words occult and witchcraft interchangeably might confuse some people, but maybe not. Just a thought.

Some would say that the word occult just means "hidden" and is not always evil. In fact, dabbling in the occult may seem very beneficial--at first. But at some point, it turns very destructive. Many times, I've heard people who have gotten deeply bound up in the occult say this after the Lord sets them free.

I've never been deeply into the occult, but like some have said, I tinkered with it when I was young.... Of course, even tinkering can be very dangerous. I have done research on various aspects of the occult, though, so that I can understand it better. Like you've pointed out, I believe anything occult, which is the workings of unholy spirits, is a counterfeit for the gifts and operation of the Holy Spirit. Sadly, many people choose this counterfeit to their detriment.

Someone pointed out that all power is God's power. Well, that gets a little tricky. Just because all power and authority belong to God, that doesn't mean that all power is being used for godly purposes. We just have to look at the book of Job to see that God lends some of His power to the devil to work his evil destruction. Maybe "lends" is not the right word, but God allows the devil and powers of darkness to operate in this fallen world.... God certainly has authority over these powers, so we should not be afraid of them--unless we open a door to them, which I believe we can do through involvement in the occult or though any sin.
.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes I do have faith in God and some people do require signs, Thomas required a sign, signs from God are not to be detested, they are great for building up faith, they are also great for sharing the good news of what God has done in your life. I was a Christian before I experienced a miracle.

Signs don't build faith, faith is the substance of the unseen. It's a gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Joseph77]

God and I have an open door policy, an intimate relationship there's nothing I can't share with Him or vise versa.

I think honestly you honestly know that there is A LOT He cannot share with you yet. (As seen throughout all Scripture, it is far beyond overwhelming ! )

 

[Waiting on him]

I think honestly you honestly know that there is A LOT He cannot share with you yet. (As seen throughout all Scripture, it is far beyond overwhelming ! )

Absolutely, He give in His time.

Why would I need a prophet, we are reconciled?

 

[Waiting on him]

The answer can be found in this verse.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

God is still revealing secrets to the prophets today, the prophet's job is to pass what is revealed by God to the people. And it isn't always ear tickling news.

Then by the definition given I'm a prophet, being I serve Him