Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Mr C]

That's just your biased interpretation of Romans 6:3-18 in order to promote salvation by water baptism. You continue to confuse the picture (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism). Now in regards to Romans 6:16, works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Unbelievers are not slaves of obedience unto righteousness no matter how much so called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works.

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Before they obeyed that form of doctrine by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16), they had been slaves to sin. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"1 Peter 1:22 notice - "Purified your souls in obeying the truth" and notice in Acts 15:9 - "Purified their hearts by FAITH." "Obeying the gospel" and "obeying that form of doctrine" in these passages is really a synonym for believing the gospel. Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth.. Being born again,

 

[Mr C]

It is not what I am teaching. It is what The Church has btaught for 2,000 years. What you are teaching is around 500 years old. So the question is: Why did God wait 1,500 years to reveal this “truth” to the men you follow?

Your “figure out how many works you must accomplish” is bizarre!!!

Amen!!!

 

[Mr C]

Great sales pitch for Roman Catholics, but it does not work on me and I'm a former Roman Catholic.

Not bizarre at all. If you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS, then there must be a set amount of works that must be accomplished in order to be saved. If not, why not? How in the world could you ever know for sure that you were saved if salvation is based (at least in part) on your performance/works? You couldn't.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Hey Mr. Lutheran.

You are wrong as usual.

One can tell WHEN one is saved by knowing WHEN our sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8 ;5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

 

[Marymog]

Of course, because this confession is an expression of faith from the heart (and not a work for salvation). Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9,10) are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. *Notice in Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead is not unto righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" (not by the Holy Spirit) "lip service confession" is not unto salvation.

Good...we agree that man is saved by faith and confessing with their mouth. Faith, which is an internal work of our spirit, and with your mouth Which is and external work of your physical body. It appears you do not see them as being separate but at least we agree in principle: You need both (even though you see the spiritual and physical as one)

Do you believe we are saved by Grace?

Curious Mary

 

[mailmandan]

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth.. Being born again,

Acts 15:9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. What do we obey in order to have our souls/hearts purified? *We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.* Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? Seeking salvation by works is not obeying the truth and the mechanical act of being immersed in plain, ordinary H20 has no power purify your soul/heart.

 

[Marymog]

Great sales pitch for Roman Catholics, but it does not work on me and I'm a former Roman Catholic.

Translation: I have no logical answer so I will punt and throw out my credentials to make myself look more believable!!!

 

[mailmandan]

Good...we agree that man is saved by faith and confessing with their mouth. Faith, which is an internal work of our spirit, and with your mouth Which is and external work of your physical body. It appears you do not see them as being separate but at least we agree in principle: You need both (even though you see the spiritual and physical as one)

Do you believe we are saved by Grace?

Curious Mary

I've heard people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way before which means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would "remain lost" according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally confess with their mouth. To turn believing and confessing here into "two separate steps to salvation," would turn confession into a "work for salvation, which would contradict numerous passages of scripture which state man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

I believe that we are saved by grace. Grace is God's part and faith is man's part.

 

[Marymog]

Not bizarre at all. If you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS, then there must be a set amount of works that must be accomplished in order to be saved. If not, why not? How in the world could you ever know for sure that you were saved if salvation is based (at least in part) on your performance/works? You couldn't.

You have agreed that we must confess with our mouths to be saved. (Post#838)

There must be a set amount of confessions with your mouth that must be accomplished in order to be saved?. If not there is not a set number, why not?

 

[Candidus]

Water did not cleanse Naaman the leper (2Kings5).

His faith can be seen in dipping 7 times in muddy water (Heb.11).

Mr 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Inventing Naaman in Hebrews 11 is the same as inventing sins are cleansed with water!

 

[mailmandan]

Translation: I have no logical answer so I will punt and throw out my credentials to make myself look more believable!!!

Be very careful about so called credentials. Understanding scripture is not about human logic. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

 

[Marymog]

I've heard people misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way before which means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would "remain lost" according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to verbally confess with their mouth. To turn believing and confessing here into "two separate steps to salvation," would turn confession into a "work for salvation, which would contradict numerous passages of scripture which state man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

I believe that we are saved by grace. Grace is God's part and faith is man's part.

Let’s be VERY clear here: YOU do not decide who has misinterpreted Scripture.

If God has given you that authority you should not be on this forum.

 

[Mr C]

Acts 15:9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. What do we obey in order to have our souls/hearts purified? *We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.* Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? Seeking salvation by works is not obeying the truth and the mechanical act of being immersed in plain, ordinary H20 has no power purify your soul/heart.

Friend, that is not what (Rom. 10:16) is teaching.

I am not a goggleyedperch, I do not swallow whatever comes along.

 

[mailmandan]

You have agreed that we must confess with our mouths to be saved. (Post#838)

There must be a set amount of confessions with your mouth that must be accomplished in order to be saved?. If not there is not a set number, why not?

It's not about must confess, but will confess. The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart - TOGETHER (Romans 10:8) even if the person cannot verbally speak (is moot). It's not a set amount, but a set recognition in our heart that Jesus is Lord, so the confession is an expression of faith from the heart and is not a work for salvation. Anyone can give "lip service" confession from their head.

 

[Mr C]

Acts 15:9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. What do we obey in order to have our souls/hearts purified? *We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.* Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? Seeking salvation by works is not obeying the truth and the mechanical act of being immersed in plain, ordinary H20 has no power purify your soul/heart.

It is a contradiction to claim one is saved by faith alone while using the word "OBEY".

 

[mailmandan]

Inventing Naaman in Hebrews 11 is the same as inventing sins are cleansed with water!

I often hear Campbellites use the example of Naaman being cleansed from leprosy while dipping in water as an example of having sins cleansed by water during baptism.

 

[mailmandan]

It is a contradiction to claim one is saved by faith alone while using the word "OBEY".

Not at all. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. This act of obedience saves. Still faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. Now that's not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing the gospel.

 

[Marymog]

It's not about must confess, but will confess. The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart - TOGETHER (Romans 10:8) even if the person cannot verbally speak (is moot). It's not a set amount, but a set recognition in our heart that Jesus is Lord, so the confession is an expression of faith from the heart and is not a work for salvation. Anyone can give "lip service" confession from their head.

Please don’t twist Scripture to your liking. It says “IF” you confess with your mouth. We are given a choice.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Mr C]

You must watch these people who teach faith alone salvation.

Notice please -

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

If = Upon the condition that

That means if one does not confess he will not be saved. (Rom.10:9,10)

SEE POST #853

 

[mailmandan]

Friend, that is not what (Rom. 10:16) is teaching.

I am not a goggleyedperch, I do not swallow whatever comes along.

I proved otherwise and you obviously swallowed the lie of salvation by water baptism.

 

[Marymog]

. Now you just need to figure out how many works you must accomplish..... Let me know when you figure that out.

I didn’t need to figure it out....YOU DID!

Answer: It’s not a set amount!! (Post #853)