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Featured Salvation Through Baptism ???

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Pianoworldstage, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Pianoworldstage

    Pianoworldstage Member

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    Hi

    ACTS 2:38
    Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    So is baptism necessary in order to receive the Holy Spirit?

    And is baptism necessary for salvation? If a person has accepted Jesus Christ by faith and has made a full repentance, yet have not become baptized.. are they saved.
     
  2. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Baptism is for believers to make their public confession of their commitment to Christ. It is consistent with the Scripture: "For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved" (Romans 10:10).
    So, baptism is an integral part of declaring with your mouth and your actions that you are professing your faith and that you are saved.
     
  3. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    baptism is between you and God, nobody else.
    if he says do it and get it - you should obey, being obedient is better with God
     
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  4. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    Water baptism does not save anyone.
     
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  5. Seasoned by Grace

    Seasoned by Grace Active Member

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    PLANOWORLDSTAGE :)
    Man am I glad you posted this
    .
    I have some REAL CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS that may not have been put together before.

    Boy am I gonna get attacked on this one.

    But I will be full of LOVE and KINDNESS on every reply.

    I love all of you, so why wouldn't I answer in LOVE - IT'S ALL I GOT GUY'S

    So love and kindness to all of you.
    And why not, it's all I got to offer.
    Man this will be FUN

    My name is OLIGOS
     
  6. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    baptism in water saves no man,
    by grace you are saved through faith. now we wait fir the must baptize in water crowd
     
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  7. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are saved. Baptism - considered on its own - doesn't contribute anything to our salvation.

    However - baptism isn't "on its own", disconnected from anything and everything else. Genuine faith leads to action, and if you love Jesus and call Him Lord then you will obey Him. This makes baptism non-negotiable. Obviously there are some circumstances in which new believers are unable to access baptism (e.g. the thief on the cross), but most of us have no excuse for disobeying Christ's command. In the New Testament, belief and baptism go together; they are inseparable (Mark 16:16). We shouldn't separate them.
     
  8. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    and so many miss the point,

    Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    Shadows of things.
     
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  9. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Man is saved by grace through faith not faith and water baptism. (Ephesians 2:8)

    John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
     
  10. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

    *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

    In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

    *So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  11. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

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    True - but when Cornelius and co were baptised in the Holy Spirit (note - before being baptised in water!), Peter didn't say, "well you don't need to be baptised in water now" but "we gotta get on and baptise you!" (Acts 10:47,48)
     
  12. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Salvation through believing in Him and the one who sent Him.
     
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  13. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    What if you refuse baptism ?
    are you saved then ?
    refusing what God wants us to do would be a spirit of rebellion

    Yes water in itself has not saving power, but refusing it is deadly.

    Holy Ghost baptism does save you because that has the power of life in it.
    refusing HG baptism we will die
     
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  14. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    Peter tied "repent" to "baptized" with the conjunction "and" making them inseparable and makes both equally importance and necessity to being saved. The same people Peter commanded to repent were the same people Peter commanded to be baptized. The fact baptism is commanded, if for no other reason, makes it necessary for disobedience to God's commands is working unrighteousness, serving "sin unto death" (Romans 6:18) while being baptized is serving "obedience unto righteousness". Therefore not until one is baptized can one saved/have sins remitted. The purpose of baptism is for, unto the remission of sins.


    Acts 2:38---------baptize>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
    1 Pet 3:21--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

    Eph 2:8---------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

    Rom 6:16-------obedience>>>>>>>>>>>>>unto righteousness

    Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then NT faith includes obedience in being baptism. Hence baptism, as repentance, is a necessary part of NT faith. Faith void of repentance and baptism, that is faith void of obedience to God's commands is dead and cannot justify. Those in Acts 2 believed Peter's sermon (pricked in their hearts) but belief only was NOT enough to save/remit their sins, it also took repentance and baptism BEFORE they were saved/had sins remitted. Nowhere does the NT gospel teach belief only saves.

    Acts 2:41 those that gladly received Peter's words were baptized. The implication then is being baptized is receiving the gospel, not being baptized is rejecting the gospel.

    Again, not obeying God = seving "sin unto death" while obeying God = "obedience unto righteousness"
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  15. Seasoned by Grace

    Seasoned by Grace Active Member

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    Love this topic [​IMG]
    42 years ago becoming a Christian was about being "BORN AGAIN" or about "CONVERSION. The term "Being saved" was never used as there were/are too many variations and meanings and conditions for salvation .

    Today you can;
    Invite Jesus into your heart
    or be saved by grace
    or be saved by believing
    or be saved by the sinners prayer
    on
    and on

    The bible says, "one lord, one faith, one BAPTISM
    Mark 16:16, "He who has believed and has been BAPTIZED shall be SAVED
    Romans 6:3 says, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been BAPTIZED into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death.
    1st Peter 3:21 says, "...BAPTISM now SAVES you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a clear conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    John 1:26, John BAPTIZED in water
    Matth. 3:13-17, Jesus was BAPTIZED by John
    Acts 2:38, "Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be BAPTIZED.
    Acts 2:40, "Those who had received the word were BAPTIZED
    Acts 2:47, "And the Lord was adding to their number day by da those who were being BAPTIZED.
    Acts 8:12, "But when they believed, they were BAPTIZED
    Acts 8: 13, "Even Simon himself believed and was BAPTIZED.
    Acts 8:32-29, " The eunuch said, Look, here is water, what can stand in the way of my being BAPTIZED?
    Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip BAPTIZED him.
    Acts 9:17-18, "And after Paul regained his sight, he got up and was BAPTIZED.
    Acts 10:45-48, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be BAPTIZED, and he ordered them to
    be BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ."
    Acts 13:48, "And as many as had been appointed to eternal life were BAPTIZED".
    Acts 14:1, "...a large number of people were BAPTIZED."
    Acts 16:14-15 "...the Lord opened LYDIA"S heart to respond and she and her house were BAPTIZED."
    Acts 16:31-34, "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Then he and everyone in his household were immediately BAPTIZED."
    Acts 17:34, "But some men joined them and they were BAPTIZED."
    Acts 18:7-8, "Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they hears were believing and being BAPTIZED."
    Acts 19:2-7, "When they all heard this (about Christ), they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus."
    Acts 21:19-20, "Tho seest brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which were BAPTIZED."
    Acts 20:24 Some were being BAPTIZED through things spoken, but others would not believe."

    Tell me why BAPTISM isn't necessary when we see it here in these verses about SALVATION and being saved??

    Thank you for taking the time to come here and read my post, and comment.
    My name is OLIGOS
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  16. Candidus

    Candidus Well-Known Member

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    "Nowhere does the NT gospel teach belief only saves."

    "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." Romans 10:9-10. No water here.

    "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and not of yourselves, it is the work of God;" Ephesians 2:8. No water, or the work of baptism, or getting help from a man to get baptized in the passage. "not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Ephesians 2:9. This includes that action of water baptism, the Baptizer and the one getting water baptized.

    God's salvation is not limited to the physical presence of water, or some man to perform a ceremony.

    "Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, or of me His prisoner; but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity." 2 Timothy 1:8-9.

    In Romans Chapter 4, we see Paul's argument that Abraham was saved by faith, and not by works, Specifically, the "work" of circumcision. Circumcision was performed because Abraham was already "saved." The God of the Bible is not limited to a ceremony or the works of man, but operates on faith in response to His grace. To summarize Chapter 4, Paul says in 5:1-2, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we also obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand;" No water or circumcision needed to activate grace or justification. The "water god" is not the God of the Bible!

    The Gospel is plain and simple: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16. If you are trusting in your own works of Circumcision or Water Baptism, you have fallen from grace.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  17. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Well-Known Member

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    None of the verses/passages cited above say "belief only" saves. Romans 10:9-10 (also Matthew 10:32-33)makes confession as necessary to salvation as belief. Luke 13:3 makes repentance necessary to not perishing as John 3:16 makes belief necessary to not perishing.

    1) when it comes to God's word one must examine the sum of God's word (Psalms 139:17) all of God's counsel (Acts 20:27). Therefore one must examine ALL of the verses that deal with salvation to get the complete picture, a few hand selected verses therefore are not the sum of God's thoughts on salvation. It is bad interpretation to take one verse that mentions 'beleif" as john 3:16 while purposefully ignoring verses that require repentance confession and baptism.

    2) in some places, as John 3:16 "believeth" is used as a synecdoche (a part for the whole) where "believeth" INCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism. Example, in 1 Peter 3:21 peter says baptism doth also now save us. Peter is NOT saying "baptism ALONE" saves but baptism is used as a synecdoche (part for the whole) where "baptism" INCLUDES belief, repentance and confession.

    Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:...."
    Acts 2:44 "And all that believed were together,..."

    Who were the ones that "believed" in v44? The ones baptized in verse 41 for unbelievers reject baptism. Here then we have a case where "believed" of v44 INCLUDES being baptized per v41.

    3) the "not of works" of Eph 2:9 excludes works of merit. It does NOT obedience to the Lord in believing repenting confession and submitting to baptism.

    We know those Ephesians were baptized:

    a) in Ephesians chapter one, many times Paul says those Ephesians were "in Christ" or "in Him" and baptism is they only way to being in Christ and putting on Christ, Galatians 3:12.

    b)
    Ep 2:8-------------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
    1 Pet 3:21--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

    Just one way to be saved, no alternatives then the faith of those Ephesians must have included baptism.

    c)
    those Ephesians had been born again:
    John 3:5---------SPirit++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
    1 Cor 12:13-----SPirit++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
    Eph 5:26-------the word++++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>>>>cleansed

    Again, just one way to be saved then the Ephesians were water baptized.

    d)
    Ephesians 2:6 "raised up" refers to their having been water baptized where there is a burial and resurrection..Romans 6:4 " buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up". Colossians 2:12 "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him"

    e)
    Acts 19 Paul met some from Ephesus who had been baptized with John's baptism which was invalid by that time having been replaced by Christ's baptism of the great commission (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:16). They were then " baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." verse 5. This baptism "in the name of the Lord" is Christ's human administered water baptism of the great commission (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48) which is water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins.
     
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  18. Candidus

    Candidus Well-Known Member

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    If you make baptism a requirement of Salvation, then you cause Scripture to contradict Scripture. If you must be baptized to be saved, why does the Scripture say we are:

    1. Saved by grace through faith, not of works, which would include baptism! (Rom. 3:24-25; Eph. 2:8-9; Acts 15:8-9).

    2. Saved by faith without works, including baptism! (Rom. 4:1-25; 5:1; Gal. 3:19-29).

    3. Saved by faith in the blood of Jesus, not faith in water! (Matt. 26:28; Eph. 1:7; Rev. 1:5; 1 Jn. 1:7; Heb. 9:22; 1 Pet. 1:18-23).

    4. Saved by calling on the name of the Lord. (Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:9-13).

    5. Saved by believing on Jesus (John 3:16-18; 26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-40; 16:31; Rom. 10:9-10; 1 Cor. 1:21). Not one time is baptism referred to as necessary to gain salvation in ANY of these passages!

     
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  19. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    you still miss the point. Its do sad how christians read the bible, thsn demand God bow down to it. So much study so little if Jesus.
     
  20. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    only to those who make it a law unto themselves
     
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