Usa The Fall Of A Nation.

[rdventen]

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

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When did this nation of ours turn it's back on God,and fall under the judgment of God. This nation has become the most demoralized nation in the world,and has rejected it's Christian roots why?

 

[ronniechoate34]

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

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When did this nation of ours turn it's back on God,and fall under the judgment of God. This nation has become the most demoralized nation in the world,and has rejected it's Christian roots why?

All of this freedom and the wars fought for its cause have taken their toll. Actually every war we've fought has contributed to moral decline. So while we are busting our hump for "freedom" it backfired on us and made us heavily enslaved to sin.


America may be utterly destroyed by fire one day. With what's going on here it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Gods judgment is truly coming upon us all any time now.

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

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When did this nation of ours turn it's back on God,and fall under the judgment of God. This nation has become the most demoralized nation in the world,and has rejected it's Christian roots why?

Thats because it was never founded on Christian values per the "myth". Granted some of the Founders were Christian but most were Deists. Thomas Jefferson made this perfectly clear in Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli when he wrote:

"The United States of America was in no way founded on the Christian value."

The Constitution was not drafted to include God. Why? Because that would mean enacting laws to protecting him. The Declaration of Independence does include a reference to God but its not a legally binding document and will not stand up in a court of law. It was simply a list of complaints the colonies had agianst England. As much as we would like to tag "Christian Nation" on America we have one problem. There are Jews, Muslims and a host of another religious beliefs in this country so you cannot simply tag us a Christian Nation without involving the other beliefs as well.

 

[rdventen]

Thats because it was never founded on Christian values per the "myth". Granted some of the Founders were Christian but most were Deists. Thomas Jefferson made this perfectly clear in Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli when he wrote:

"The United States of America was in no way founded on the Christian value."

The Constitution was not drafted to include God. Why? Because that would mean enacting laws to protecting him. The Declaration of Independence does include a reference to God but its not a legally binding document and will not stand up in a court of law. It was simply a list of complaints the colonies had against England. As much as we would like to tag "Christian Nation" on America we have one problem. There are Jews, Muslims and a host of another religious beliefs in this country so you cannot simply tag us a Christian Nation without involving the other beliefs as well.

"As much as we would like to tag "Christian Nation" on America we have one problem. There are Jews, Muslims and a host of another religious beliefs in this country so you cannot simply tag us a Christian Nation without involving the other beliefs as well."

This is just one of the problems that we have in this country, all of these false beliefs and religions that were let in to this country that have turned people away form Christian values and the Bible that it was founded on.In our schools at one time the Bible was taught, and read form but it was taken out of the class room, and the list gos on and on as to the reasons why this country has become demoralized.

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

"As much as we would like to tag "Christian Nation" on America we have one problem. There are Jews, Muslims and a host of another religious beliefs in this country so you cannot simply tag us a Christian Nation without involving the other beliefs as well."

This is just one of the problems that we have in this country, all of these false beliefs and religions that were let in to this country that have turned people away form Christian values and the Bible that it was founded on.In our schools at one time the Bible was taught, and read form but it was taken out of the class room, and the list gos on and on as to the reasons why this country has become demoralized.

And what false beliefs and religions do you refer? As I said previously it was not based on the Bible or God, the Founders created a Secular form of government. You think because religion was taken out of the schools is the problem? Wrong. Society created its own problem God or anyone else had nothing to do with it.

 

[HammerStone]

Eh, I take issue with citing the Treaty of Tripoli as concrete proof against a Christian foundation. Making that wide sweeping of a statement totally ignores the context of the treaty, as it was signed with a Muslim nation.

Article 11
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

So when you include the quote in the context, the intentions become a good bit more obvious.

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

Eh, I take issue with citing the Treaty of Tripoli as concrete proof against a Christian foundation. Making that wide sweeping of a statement totally ignores the context of the treaty, as it was signed with a Muslim nation.



So when you include the quote in the context, the intentions become a good bit more obvious.

Take issue all you want it says what it says and with good reason. No foreign country would trade with the US at the time because of this Jefferson had to assure them that their beliefs were false. Any belief other than the US founded on anything other than a Secular foundation is absurd.

 

[HammerStone]

Take issue all you want it says what it says and with good reason. No foreign country would trade with the US at the time because of this Jefferson had to assure them that their beliefs were false. Any belief other than the US founded on anything other than a Secular foundation is absurd.

That's the usual response elicited when you point out those details about the treaty. So be it, I'll leave it up for the reader to decide.

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

The word "Secular" ring a bell?

 

[HammerStone]

If you say so.

You've been taught so, right? Keep being a good sheep!

(Or you could actually argue your point instead of repeating it until it's accepted. That won't work around these parts.)

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

If you say so.

You've been taught so, right? Keep being a good sheep!

(Or you could actually argue your point instead of repeating it until it's accepted. That won't work around these parts.)

Point already made its been made by 200+ years of US history. The Christian fallacy that as a nation it was founded on Christian values as been debunked more times than not. Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Paine and others made that clear. Reminds of you something does it not? Think about it. Fallacy is not always accepted as truth, and sometimes truth is accepted as fallacy.

You've been taught so, right? Keep being a good sheep!

No sadly your the sheep. And that's the pitiful part about it.

 

[fivesense]

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

<< Link removed, no personal links per forum rules. Thanks. >>

When did this nation of ours turn it's back on God,and fall under the judgment of God. This nation has become the most demoralized nation in the world,and has rejected it's Christian roots why?

Let's see here...
Ro 13:1 . Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,

Men have, since Noah's days, been governing themselves. The founders of these United States attempted to incorporate their personal religious convictions into the choatic mess they were in. They succeeded, for the most part. It was a philosophical approach, based upon a widely accepted platform-a citizenship that embraced christian principles at large.

It was not the King of Kings Who started this. His was a theocracy, the experimental aspect of which was demonstrated with the Hebrew nation. It failed, besides murdering the King when He showed up on the scene.

None other government than His, the one impending in the celestials, is of God. The rest are man-made and devised in desperation from being outside His will, such as ours has also proven to be with the passage of time. He provides the authorities for governance according to His plan and goal. No government of men, so-called christian or otherwise, is what God desires. It is merely His tool to reveal Himself to mankind, prior to the Son of David returning to earth to rule and reign, as He rightfully deserves. All others are temporary for the purposes of limiting evil and destruction between greedy and murderous men.

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: AV Phl 3:20
For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await-the Lord Jesus Christ- YLT Phl 3:20

The word, "citizenship" is translated from the Greek word, politeuma, from which political and politics is derived.
It is quite clear from the writings of Paul, the Apostle to the nations, where our allegiance and devotion and efforts should be focused, and it does not mention these United States, or any other nation for that matter. Either we are of the heavens, or we are not. It is not both, though the flesh and the soul may demand otherwise. The new creations that we are, God is working with here and now for the age to come, and this present world is passing away, which we should be using but not abusing.

But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; And they that use this world, as not abusing [it]: for the fashion of this world passeth away. AV 1C 7:29-31

The more we find ourselves seeking to restrain God's hand in exposing man's futile attempts at self goverment, the more we will discover ourselves entangled in the affairs of this life, and unable to respond to the Greater Light that truly rules the universe, and is moving ahead, revealing to the sovereignties and principalities who are the sons of God.
fivesense

 

[pastorlesofm]

I wonder if those who think Thomas Jefferson forget that Mr. Jefferson attended Christian worship services in the Capitol on Sundays and every Wednesday with the military providing music accompyment for hymn singing. Also in the Capitol Rotunda there is a picture of President George Washington and the Continental Congress starting the session with prayer, also there is a picture of George Washington kneeling and praying for his troops. Here is a quote from George Washington; "It would be impossible to rule this Nation without the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His divine guidance". When the first settlers landed on the shore of what is now Virginia , claim this land for their king "King Jesus Christ". They also placed a Christian Cross there where they landed on Jamestown, Virginia. Also for George Washington to severely punish a member of his troop who took the Name of the Lord or God in vain. The soldier was placed in a stockade where everyone could see him, then he was dishonorably discharged. This is only a sample, also in the Continental Congress , the membership contained Christian pastors, and deacons. George Washington and many of our other Founding Fathers believed in a foundation of Faith. Hope, and Charity. The first text book in the schools of colonial USA was the Bible. Where does it say, "All men are endowed by our Creator.". I'll let the reader complete this in one of our most important document. Also all the founding documents are signed by date "in the year of Our Lord______________,_____,_______." . Just something to think about. Love You all in Jesus Name

 

[pastorlesofm]

The Founders As Christians [size="-1"](Note: this is a representative list only, there are many other quotes that could be listed)[/size]

Samuel Adams
Father of the American Revolution, Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I . . . recommend my Soul to that Almighty Being who gave it, and my body I commit to the dust, relying upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.

​

[size="-2"]Will of Samuel Adams[/size]

Charles Carroll
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts.

​

[size="-2"]From an autographed letter in our possession written by Charles Carroll to Charles W. Wharton, Esq., on September 27, 1825, from Doughoragen, Maryland.[/size]

William Cushing
First Associate Justice Appointed by George Washington to the Supreme Court​

Sensible of my mortality, but being of sound mind, after recommending my soul to Almighty God through the merits of my Redeemer and my body to the earth . . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of William Cushing[/size]

John Dickinson
Signer of the Constitution​

Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.

​

[size="-2"]Will of John Dickinson[/size]

John Hancock
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I John Hancock, . . . being advanced in years and being of perfect mind and memory-thanks be given to God-therefore calling to mind the mortality of my body and knowing it is appointed for all men once to die [Hebrews 9:27], do make and ordain this my last will and testament…Principally and first of all, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of God that gave it: and my body I recommend to the earth . . . nothing doubting but at the general resurrection I shall receive the same again by the mercy and power of God. . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of John Hancock[/size]

Patrick Henry
Governor of Virginia, Patriot ​

This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.

​

[size="-2"]Will of Patrick Henry[/size]

John Jay
First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court​

Unto Him who is the author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved son. He has been pleased to bless me with excellent parents, with a virtuous wife, and with worthy children. His protection has companied me through many eventful years, faithfully employed in the service of my country; His providence has not only conducted me to this tranquil situation but also given me abundant reason to be contented and thankful. Blessed be His holy name!

​

[size="-2"]Will of John Jay[/size]

Daniel St. Thomas Jenifer
Signer of the Constitution​

In the name of God, Amen. I, Daniel of Saint Thomas Jenifer . . . of dispossing mind and memory, commend my soul to my blessed Redeemer. . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of Daniel St. Thomas Jenifer[/size]

Henry Knox
Revolutionary War General, Secretary of War​

First, I think it proper to express my unshaken opinion of the immortality of my soul or mind; and to dedicate and devote the same to the supreme head of the Universe – to that great and tremendous Jehovah, – Who created the universal frame of nature, worlds, and systems in number infinite . . . To this awfully sublime Being do I resign my spirit with unlimited confidence of His mercy and protection . . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of Henry Knox[/size]

John Langdon
Signer of the Constitution​

In the name of God, Amen. I, John Langdon, . . . considering the uncertainty of life and that it is appointed unto all men once to die [Hebrews 9:27], do make, ordain and publish this my last will and testament in manner following, that is to say-First: I commend my soul to the infinite mercies of God in Christ Jesus, the beloved Son of the Father, who died and rose again that He might be the Lord of the dead and of the living . . . professing to believe and hope in the joyful Scripture doctrine of a resurrection to eternal life . . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of John Langdon[/size]

John Morton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

With an awful reverence to the great Almighty God, Creator of all mankind, I, John Morton . . . being sick and weak in body but of sound mind and memory-thanks be given to Almighty God for the same, for all His mercies and favors-and considering the certainty of death and the uncertainty of the times thereof, do, for the settling of such temporal estate as it hath pleased God to bless me with in this life . . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of John Morton[/size]

Robert Treat Paine
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I desire to bless and praise the name of God most high for appointing me my birth in a land of Gospel Light where the glorious tidings of a Savior and of pardon and salvation through Him have been continually sounding in mine ears.

​

[size="-2"]Robert Treat Paine, The Papers of Robert Treat Paine, Stephen Riley and Edward Hanson, editors (Boston: Massachusetts Historical Society, 1992), Vol. I, p. 48, March/April, 1749.[/size]

[W]hen I consider that this instrument contemplates my departure from this life and all earthly enjoyments and my entrance on another state of existence, I am constrained to express my adoration of the Supreme Being, the Author of my existence, in full belief of his providential goodness and his forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state, acknowledging with grateful remembrance the happiness I have enjoyed in my passage through a long life. . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of Robert Treat Paine[/size]

Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Signer of the Constitution​

To the eternal, immutable, and only true God be all honor and glory, now and forever, Amen!. . .

​

[size="-2"]Will of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney[/size]

Rufus Putnam
Revolutionary War General, First Surveyor General of the United States​

[F]irst, I give my soul to a holy, sovereign God Who gave it in humble hope of a blessed immortality through the atonement and righteousness of Jesus Christ and the sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit. My body I commit to the earth to be buried in a decent Christian manner. I fully believe that this body shall, by the mighty power of God, be raised to life at the last day; 'for this corruptable (sic) must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.' [I Corinthians 15:53]

​

[size="-2"]Will of Rufus Putnam[/size]

Benjamin Rush
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

My only hope of salvation is in the infinite, transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!

​

[size="-2"]Benjamin Rush, The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, George Corner, editor (Princeton: Princeton University Press for the American Philosophical Society, 1948), p. 166, Travels Through Life, An Account of Sundry Incidents & Events in the Life of Benjamin Rush.[/size]

Roger Sherman
Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Signer of the Constitution​

I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. . . . that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are a revelation from God. . . . that God did send His own Son to become man, die in the room and stead of sinners, and thus to lay a foundation for the offer of pardon and salvation to all mankind so as all may be saved who are willing to accept the Gospel offer.

​

[size="-2"]Lewis Henry Boutell, The Life of Roger Sherman (Chicago: A. C. McClurg and Company, 1896), pp. 272-273.[/size]

Richard Stockton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I think it proper here not only to subscribe to the entire belief of the great and leading doctrines of the Christian religion, such as the Being of God, the universal defection and depravity of human nature, the divinity of the person and the completeness of the redemption purchased by the blessed Savior, the necessity of the operations of the Divine Spirit, of Divine Faith, accompanied with an habitual virtuous life, and the universality of the divine Providence, but also . . . that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom; that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness that can be enjoyed in this mortal state; that all occasions of vice and immorality is injurious either immediately or consequentially, even in this life; that as Almighty God hath not been pleased in the Holy Scriptures to prescribe any precise mode in which He is to be publicly worshiped, all contention about it generally arises from want of knowledge or want of virtue.

​

[size="-2"]Will of Richard Stockton[/size]

Jonathan Trumbull Sr.
Governor of Connecticut, Patriot ​

Principally and first of all, I bequeath my soul to God the Creator and Giver thereof, and body to the Earth . . . nothing doubting but that I shall receive the same again at the General Resurrection thro the power of Almighty God; believing and hoping for eternal life thro the merits of my dear, exalted Redeemer Jesus Christ.

​

[size="-2"]Will of Jonathan Trumbull[/size]

John Witherspoon
Signer of the Declaration of Independence​

I entreat you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other [Acts 4:12]. . . . f you are not reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, if you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish.

​

[size="-2"]John Witherspoon, The Works of John Witherspoon (Edinburgh: J. Ogle, 1815), Vol. V, pp. 276, 278, The Absolute Necessity of Salvation Through Christ, January 2, 1758.[/size] //print(); //

 

[Evangelical Doubter]

Noticed you left out some. If the US was founded on your Christian values then please show me in the US Constitution where it specificly states this. Granted most of the founders were Christian you cannot argue that. But the US was not built on that set of values but rather a secular form of government. In reference to post# 13 above, Jefferson took two NT Bibles and pasted and cut them to make one. Why? He did not believe in the so called miracles the NT claims Jesus performed, as far as that goes I don't either but that's neither here nor there. Post#1, religion is responsible for the destruction, hatred and insensitiveness that goes on in the world today, its the central cause of most wars that costs ,millions their lives and the US is by no means an innocent bystander in all of this.

 

[pastorlesofm]

Noticed you left out some. If the US was founded on your Christian values then please show me in the US Constitution where it specificly states this. Granted most of the founders were Christian you cannot argue that. But the US was not built on that set of values but rather a secular form of government. In reference to post# 13 above, Jefferson took two NT Bibles and pasted and cut them to make one. Why? He did not believe in the so called miracles the NT claims Jesus performed, as far as that goes I don't either but that's neither here nor there. Post#1, religion is responsible for the destruction, hatred and insensitiveness that goes on in the world today, its the central cause of most wars that costs ,millions their lives and the US is by no means an innocent bystander in all of this.

It is obvious that you sat under very liberal professors while in college, many in our colleges are socialists, who blame America for everything that is wrong, and God forbid it should stand on Christian Values. Over the Speakers chair in the House of Representatives is engraved "In God We Trust". Every session of both Houses of Congress is opened with prayer. The United States Supreme Court opens every session with "God Bless This Honorable Court". All the money in your pocket has "In God We Trust". If you look at all the Founding Documents it signed with "In The Year of Our Lord.". Every state constitution begins with Acknowledgement of Our Creator including the US Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution. Most court witneseses are asked to place their left hand on the Bible and raise their right hand and swear to tell the truth. Every President, and every person in elected and appointed office place their hand on the Bible since the founding of our Country. When the first settlers landed on the beach of Virginia declared this land for their king (King Jesus) which they made a point to place a Christian Cross there. When a defendant is found guilty of a capital offence and is sentenced to death the judge says "May God have mercy on your soul". Most of our laws are lined up with the Ten Commandments as well the laws of society. I know that no matter how much evidence I present to you it will not satisfy what has been drilled into your mind. Unfortunately many of our national leaders today have the same mind indoctrinated with anti- Christian Values. No matter what the United States does good or bad they will find the need to apologize for America. Like apologizing for America bombing Japan in World War II neglecting Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor on a Sunday Morning. Japan need not apologize because the bombing of pearl Harbor was the US's fault. Anyone but the US should be overlooked and found innocent, even the recent 911 attack. Jesus said in the Day of the Lord Good shall be Evil and Evil shall be Good. Hmmm! My prayers for your salvation shall be daily. May you enjoy the Gift of God His One and Only Son Jesus Christ. It is ok to doubt, Jesus loves the doubter . God Bless You.

 

[Brother Mike]

USA The Fall of a Nation???????????????

When did this nation of ours turn it's back on God,and fall under the judgment of God. This nation has become the most demoralized nation in the world,and has rejected it's Christian roots why?

We send the Word of God out, and witness more than any other Nation. Russia does not believe in God, China, No God, One nation makes twelve year old girls marry, and die in birth complications. Rape and Pillaging in another nation, One Nation thinks Cows can be uncle Larry.

What are you comparing us to???????

God will Judge America, and we get the two thumbs up

Jesus Is Lord

 

[pastorlesofm]

USA The Fall of a Nation???????????????




We send the Word of God out, and witness more than any other Nation. Russia does not believe in God, China, No God, One nation makes twelve year old girls marry, and die in birth complications. Rape and Pillaging in another nation, One Nation thinks Cows can be uncle Larry.

What are you comparing us to???????

God will Judge America, and we get the two thumbs up

Jesus Is Lord

Sadly now, istead of us sending missionaries to Africa and other nations, due to our morals here in America going to the sewer , they are sending missionaries here to the USA. Sad isn't it?

 

[Brother Mike]

I guess I can look at that as a positive thing. Nations that have gotten stronger in the Lord, sowing back what was sowed to them. Give and it shall be given.

There are lots of Miracles in Africa that we don't see even in our Word of Faith Churches here in America. Those people understand Covenant. Something the Western World has not yet fully grasped. It could be we can learn something, Same Holy Ghost in all.


Jesus Is Lord.

 

[pastorlesofm]

I guess I can look at that as a positive thing. Nations that have gotten stronger in the Lord, sowing back what was sowed to them. Give and it shall be given.

There are lots of Miracles in Africa that we don't see even in our Word of Faith Churches here in America. Those people understand Covenant. Something the Western World has not yet fully grasped. It could be we can learn something, Same Holy Ghost in all.


Jesus Is Lord.

Brother Mike , I totally agree with you. The Lord Bless You as only He can. Love you in Jesus Name.