WITCHCRAFT IN TODAY'S CHURCH.

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Mayflower

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It is my opinion that we (in general) are in the box. I get where you're coming from. I'll become even more undignified than this. -King David lol Shalom.

Lol!!! Well I guess everyone has to decide what that boundary is in worshipping. I want to make sure I am out of the picture as well as anyone else when coming before the Lord. God bless, brother. :)
 

FollowHim

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"For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft." Taken from 1 Samuel 15:23 KJV
When we pray for someone, we need to take care that we pray according to the nature of God. If I inject my will into the prayer by asking God to do something against the person's will, this is poising my will against another's free will. It stems from the carnal nature and never carries out God's plan for the person. This, in a nutshell, is witchcraft.
Manipulation is an attempt to sway another against their will. Our society is corroded with this.
If a worship leader sees the people are struggling to get into it, he may say something like, "Come on, people, God deserves better." While this is true, trying to use pressure to achieve a result is a subtle attempt to manipulate others. Or he might say, "Come on, give the Lord a hand." Are you clapping in response to God or are you doing it because it's expected?
We are supposed to be led, not coerced into doing something. You may think I'm splitting hairs, but this is a very serious topic. Using manipulation is what the enemy does and when this is used by Christians, we are opening up others and perhaps ourselves to being oppressed by the enemy.
God highly values our free will and seldom interferes with it. Your thoughts?

Truth from the heart is following God.
Show bizz is just that, or a rock show.

Some have become music fests not worship to the living God. Not a surprise when music with professional production is Christianity, and love and our walk is just a way to fund yet more concerts.....and if sin gets in the way, we are only human, the show must go on ..... Hillsong with international tours.....sell out concerts in the biggest venues......the same line out......solo careers, make up artists, ground crew.....show bizzzzz.

I love the praise of Jesus, but exposure corrupts the heart. Performers forget the music is a stage for reality not a show.....
 
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marksman

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Praise God Almighty! I'm so glad someone is posting this. I have led worship in churches several times, and also been a part of numerous worship teams, and that business of telling people they need to worship has always kind of sickened me. Thankfully it did not occur on teams I was on, maybe because they were good enough that they facilitated worship and the people didn't have to be somehow told to.

But I have seen this approach in some Hispanic churches, and boy does it rub me the wrong way. It strikes me as compounding an already bad problem and making it far, far worse.

Very good post, and glad you shared this. Maybe if more people did we wouldn't have the phenomenon of being somehow coerced into worshipping God "from the heart." :rolleyes:

That begs the question what is worship? people seem to think that enthusiastic singing and physical movements (i.e clapping) are worship. Some people think that being reverential is worship. Some people think that singing a song 50 times is worship.

Being my usual self, I delved into the meaning of worship and found that it was none of these. Essentially worship is surrender. The metaphor is the leader of an army who is defeated is brought before the victor and kneels before him to acknowledge he is the victor and I am defeated and therefore I am at his mercy.

We can do all the things that have been talked about but if we are not surrendered to the King of Kings we are not worshipping. We are just singing. Hope that doesn't burst your bubble.
 
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marksman

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One has to realize that closely aligned to witchcraft in the church is the spirit of Jezebel which is a spirit of control. I have encountered this three times and on one occasion it destroyed the church. In another it nearly did but we managed to nip it in the bud. And on the third occasion, the leadership ignored my advice.

That advice was that the leader was too strong spiritually, so a spirit would get hold of one of his sons. Three months later his youngest son was dating a witch.
 
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Truman

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Truth from the heart is following God.
Show bizz is just that, or a rock show.

Some have become music fests not worship to the living God. Not a surprise when music with professional production is Christianity, and love and our walk is just a way to fund yet more concerts.....and if sin gets in the way, we are only human, the show must go on ..... Hillsong with international tours.....sell out concerts in the biggest venues......the same line out......solo careers, make up artists, ground crew.....show bizzzzz.

I love the praise of Jesus, but exposure corrupts the heart. Performers forget the music is a stage for reality not a show.....
Professional musicians are paid to perform. As a worship leader, to perform was to fail.
I believe it was back in the 90s that I found Hillsong on a Saturday night. I thought, "these guys are like Vineyard." At the time I was part of the local Vineyard. I watched the show but I thought I missed something. After I'd watched maybe 4 other Saturday nights, I realized that it looked like what I knew but it wasn't. It was a mystery to me as to why that would be.
This was a long time ago. I am aware that Hillsong has become very popular since then and I don't know anything they've put out in the last 20 years. I've heard they've had some problems (who hasn't) though I didn't look into it. If Hillsong helps people connect with God then that's a good thing. Leading worship is not a career, it's a calling. Shalom.
 
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Yan

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Does the Apocrypa Books of Adam & Eve was valid book from a bulk of a bible ?
Why does those lost books were excluded ?
As I read throughly the first Book of Adam & Eve, the temptation of the devil was completely have such a detailed explanation. The hosts of the devil can deceived our sighting with the light and angels. So, did this book was also originaly written by prophets ?
As in regular bible, Anti Christ was described as any person that does not conceive that Jesus Christ has come as a human in the flesh ?

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, [even] they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
 

marks

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When we pray for someone, we need to take care that we pray according to the nature of God. If I inject my will into the prayer by asking God to do something against the person's will, this is poising my will against another's free will. It stems from the carnal nature and never carries out God's plan for the person. This, in a nutshell, is witchcraft.
Aren't you mixing two things here?

I'll not try to manipulate my little sister into becoming a Christian, and she has no thought towards what I beleive, just the same, I continue to ask God to change her heart. Today, that would be agains her will.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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Does the Apocrypa Books of Adam & Eve was valid book from a bulk of a bible ?
Why does those lost books were excluded ?
The Hebrew Tanakh consists of 24 books (equivalent to our Old Testament with 39 books). None of the apocryphal books were divinely inspired, or they would have also been included. One can certainly read them, provided it is understood that this is not Scripture.
 

marks

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Manipulation is not exactly witchcraft, so you need to be careful in how you define witchcraft. In the Bible witchcraft is sorcery. And sorcery is not practiced in Christian churches (even in the liberal ones).

כָּשַׁף kâshaph, kaw-shaf'; a primitive root; properly, to whisper a spell, i.e. to inchant or practise magic:—sorcerer, (use) witch(-craft).
I think modern day witchcraft is embodied in the idea that speaking words has power, that is, the power is in the words themselves, and that power is released by uttering them.

Much love!
 

Enoch111

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I think modern day witchcraft is embodied in the idea that speaking words has power, that is, the power is in the words themselves, and that power is released by uttering them.
That still is not witchcraft. Christians need to be careful to not make false accusations. Witchcraft has been clearly defined for several thousand years. Let's stick with the correct definitions.

BRITANNICA DOES NOT REALLY BELIEVE IN WITCHCRAFT
"Witchcraft, traditionally, the exercise or invocation of alleged [TYPICAL SECULAR HEDGING] supernatural powers to control people or events, practices typically involving sorcery or magic. Although defined differently in disparate historical and cultural contexts, witchcraft has often been seen, especially in the West, as the work of crones who meet secretly at night, indulge in cannibalism and orgiastic rites with the Devil, or Satan, and perform black magic...:
 
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Yan

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Maybe the churches had not practice witchcraft, but the theological university was include the philosophy that came from the knowledge of good and evil. And some of them were studying the other religion philosophy, does the deception inside the church today comes from this cleft ?
The needle's eye cleft inside the body of christ will be used by devil to enters into our life (Matthew 19:24).
 

Hidden In Him

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That begs the question what is worship? people seem to think that enthusiastic singing and physical movements (i.e clapping) are worship. Some people think that being reverential is worship. Some people think that singing a song 50 times is worship.

Being my usual self, I delved into the meaning of worship and found that it was none of these. Essentially worship is surrender. The metaphor is the leader of an army who is defeated is brought before the victor and kneels before him to acknowledge he is the victor and I am defeated and therefore I am at his mercy.

We can do all the things that have been talked about but if we are not surrounded to the King of Kings we are not worshipping. We are just singing. Hope that doesn't burst your bubble.

Not at all ; )

But then, if it's hard coercing them into simply participating, it's downright impossible to coerce them into surrendering to the Lord at His feet.
 
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marks

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Praise God Almighty! I'm so glad someone is posting this. I have led worship in churches several times, and also been a part of numerous worship teams, and that business of telling people they need to worship has always kind of sickened me. Thankfully it did not occur on teams I was on, maybe because they were good enough that they facilitated worship and the people didn't have to be somehow told to.

But I have seen this approach in some Hispanic churches, and boy does it rub me the wrong way. It strikes me as compounding an already bad problem and making it far, far worse.

Very good post, and glad you shared this. Maybe if more people did we wouldn't have the phenomenon of being somehow coerced into worshipping God "from the heart." :rolleyes:
My wife and I left a church primarily because of the "worship" where after 10 repetitions of the same 4 lines we were again admonished to "this time, sing like you mean in!"

People need to remember what a leader is, not just someone who directs you where to go, but someone who goes there first.

Much love!
 
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marks

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I would suggest that in some churches the music itself is designed and used as a means to hypnotise and place people in a state euphemistically called 'in the spirit'.
I think some try to do that.

And I also think that some people worship God through the repetitions.

Much love!
 
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Hidden In Him

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The cult of mary practices Witchcraft every service, when the "priest" magically turns the cookie into Jesus, as they teach you to believe.

Jesus Cookies actually sound pretty good... I wonder if they have Peanut Butter. Or Toffee. THAT would be excellent. I could go for some Jesus Cookies with little bits of toffee in them. And a tall glass of milk.

Then prayer.


milk-cookies.jpg
 

marks

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If that ain't witchcraft I don't know what is.
As a former Wiccan, what witchcraft meant to us was that we could use our understanding of the elemental forces in the earth to enact our will over things, others, whatever. That there were certain ways to engage and direct these forces, primarily by speech, but not entirely.

Much love!