John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"

[JohnDB]

That is not correct at all. The blood is a very important part of the atonement.

Leviticus 17
[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Now looking at the first part of this verse in Leviticus the answer is right there...

And something very unique.

Blood is life.
ALL life comes from God.
Jesus is God
It was a thing of uncleanliness to touch blood because you were touching something that doesn't belong to you.

Jesus is/was the only one whose life was his own. He would not be unclean by touching his own blood nor by giving it to another.

"Eat my flesh and drink my blood"
Jesus is saying that All life is his and his alone. If He gives it to you...then all uncleanliness is removed.

 

[Tong2020]

That is not correct at all. The blood is a very important part of the atonement.

Leviticus 17
[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

I don't and did not say otherwise. But while the blood is a very important part of atonement, it is not the blood per se (material blood) that is the matter, but the life. The life that is in the blood. It is that life that which makes the blood have any meaning and importance, so that it could be said that it is the blood that make an atonement for the soul.

Tong
R1083

 

[JohnDB]

No Candidus. We are saved by grace through faith, not fate.

The issue is, if John MacArthur's statement, that is, "you have nothing to do with being "born again". And in response to the thread topic, I said in post #109, that I agree and have explained myself there. And there is nothing in there that even suggest to the slightest bit that we are saved by fate.

Tong
R1082

But that's the message of Calvinism...fate not faith.

 

[Tong2020]

But that's the message of Calvinism...fate not faith.

That may be how you see what Calvin or John MacArthur believes. I really care less about that. What I care about is what scriptures says.

But that is not the topic of this thread. If you'll notice, I make no reference to Calvinism nor whether John MacArthur is a calvinist or not.

Tong
R1084

 

[JohnDB]

That may be how you see what Calvin or John MacArthur believes. I really care less about that. What I care about is what scriptures says.

But that is not the topic of this thread. If you'll notice, I make no reference to Calvinism nor whether John MacArthur is a calvinist or not.

Tong
R1084

But that theology is at the root of what he is promoting. And in his exegesis he is acknowledging the proper translation but then twisting it to fit the Calvinistic theologies instead of allowing it to show clearly what I laid out.
"He came into his own but his own received him not." Is a line from Isaiah that I'm sure that Jesus knew very well.
After all...He, Himself inspired it to be written. He was there when Isaiah wrote it.

 

[justbyfaith]

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2).

 

[Tong2020]

But that theology is at the root of what he is promoting. And in his exegesis he is acknowledging the proper translation but then twisting it to fit the Calvinistic theologies instead of allowing it to show clearly what I laid out.
"He came into his own but his own received him not." Is a line from Isaiah that I'm sure that Jesus knew very well.
After all...He, Himself inspired it to be written. He was there when Isaiah wrote it.

Setting aside the theology of John MacArthur, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it?

Tong
R1085

 

[07-07-07]

I don't and did not say otherwise. But while the blood is a very important part of atonement, it is not the blood per se (material blood) that is the matter, but the life. The life that is in the blood. It is that life that which makes the blood have any meaning and importance, so that it could be said that it is the blood that make an atonement for the soul.

Tong
R1083

Why play semantics as John MacArthur does? It's the blood that washes sin away; it's the LIFE that offers the blood.

Revelation 1
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

 

[JohnDB]

Setting aside the theology of John MacArthur, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it?

Tong
R1085

One of the prophets answered this question concerning pottery and clay.

Now what wasn't talked about in his passage was how a potter made his living.
A potter had to be very fast first off. Clay jars were as valuable as a used mayonnaise jar. It takes a lot of them to have any value enough to make a living on.
Then there's the clay itself.
Some clay is strong enough to get built up high with very thin walls. Pressure with water both from the inside and outside both at the same time just a bit offset from each other.

Tall thin pots that might make a good wine carafe brings more dollars than a chamber pot or crock for water.
At any rate it's up to the quality of the clay that determines the value of the pot.
It's not up to the Potter. He just works with what He has to make the best vessel possible. All vessels have value. All vessels have purpose and function.
A chamber pot vessel might want to be a wine carafe vessel but that really isn't going to work out for anyone. Someone is going to get offended at dinner.

Would you eat chili served out of a heated porcelain toilet bowl?
Nuff said!

God does the best that he can with what He has to work with. Even broken pots have value as they can carve intricate designs and labels in the tall pots.

A potters field is one where all the dirt has been removed to make vessels and pots. All that's left is rock. No chance of anything of value to grow there. Not anything edible at least.
And that's the result of the money Judas made from betrayal. Kinda a stark illustration don't ya think?

Judas of course knew that Jesus was the Messiah and God's son. But he didn't believe that God would allow Jesus to be killed and that God would come and save Jesus and institute his Kingdom here on Earth immediately...and as the treasurer apostle he would of course would benefit greatly when that happened. Trying to force God into something is as disastrous as it can get. That's Calvinism...and why I'm not a subscriber. (False dichotomy of questions to elicit specific answers)

 

[Tong2020]

Why play semantics as John MacArthur does? It's the blood that washes sin away; it's the LIFE that offers the blood.

Revelation 1
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

I don't play semantics sir.
"washed us from our sins in his own blood" is a figure of speech. Blood does not wash away sins in the literal sense.

Why would the sinlessness of Jesus' life be necessary for Him to be the lamb of God, if at all it is the literal blood that literally washes away sin? Think about that.

Tong
R1086

 

[Tong2020]

One of the prophets answered this question concerning pottery and clay.

Now what wasn't talked about in his passage was how a potter made his living.
A potter had to be very fast first off. Clay jars were as valuable as a used mayonnaise jar. It takes a lot of them to have any value enough to make a living on.
Then there's the clay itself.
Some clay is strong enough to get built up high with very thin walls. Pressure with water both from the inside and outside both at the same time just a bit offset from each other.

Tall thin pots that might make a good wine carafe brings more dollars than a chamber pot or crock for water.
At any rate it's up to the quality of the clay that determines the value of the pot.
It's not up to the Potter. He just works with what He has to make the best vessel possible. All vessels have value. All vessels have purpose and function.
A chamber pot vessel might want to be a wine carafe vessel but that really isn't going to work out for anyone. Someone is going to get offended at dinner.

Would you eat chili served out of a heated porcelain toilet bowl?
Nuff said!

God does the best that he can with what He has to work with. Even broken pots have value as they can carve intricate designs and labels in the tall pots.

A potters field is one where all the dirt has been removed to make vessels and pots. All that's left is rock. No chance of anything of value to grow there. Not anything edible at least.
And that's the result of the money Judas made from betrayal. Kinda a stark illustration don't ya think?

Judas of course knew that Jesus was the Messiah and God's son. But he didn't believe that God would allow Jesus to be killed and that God would come and save Jesus and institute his Kingdom here on Earth immediately...and as the treasurer apostle he would of course would benefit greatly when that happened. Trying to force God into something is as disastrous as it can get. That's Calvinism...and why I'm not a subscriber. (False dichotomy of questions to elicit specific answers)

Again, setting aside the theology of John MacArthur, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it?

It's a very simple question that really can be answered by a simple yes or no.

Tong
R1087

 

[ChristisGod]

Setting aside the theology of John MacArthur, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it?

Tong
R1085

Terms such as born again (John 3:3), born of God (John 1:13), and born of the Spirit (John 3:6). They all mean the same thing. Birth metaphors are used because we all understand physical birth. When a baby is born, a new person emerges into the world. The new life will grow, and the young person will come to resemble his or her parents. When we are born of the Spirit, a “new person” arrives with a new spiritual life. And as we grow, we come to resemble our Father in heaven (Romans 8:29)got?

We have no more control over our physical birth than we do our spiritual birth. Man is born dead in his trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1-3). We are spiritually dead hence the need for our spiritual birth which comes from the Holy Spirit as we read in John 3. Peter tells us it comes from God , not ourselves : he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3). Just as Lazarus who was dead physically and could not come out of the grave until Jesus gave him life, so we cannot come alive without the regeneration of our spirit by Christ.

hope this helps !!!

 

[JohnDB]

Again, setting aside the theology of John MacArthur, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it?

It's a very simple question that really can be answered by a simple yes or no.

Tong
R1087

I did answer it with what you quoted...very clearly and distinctly.
Didn't you read it?
How could you not get the answer from what I posted?

 

[Tong2020]

I did answer it with what you quoted...very clearly and distinctly.
Didn't you read it?
How could you not get the answer from what I posted?

If you would be kind enough, could you tell me if that is a yes or a no answer to my question?

Thanks.

Tong
R1088

 

[JohnDB]

If you would be kind enough, could you tell me if that is a yes or a no answer to my question?

Thanks.

Tong
R1088

I explained already.

 

[Tong2020]

I explained already.

It seems to me you believe that on the matter of birth, you have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it.

Tong
R1089

 

[ChristisGod]

It seems to me you believe that on the matter of birth, you have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it.

Tong
R1089

when in facts its just the opposite. man has no more control over his spiritual birth than he does his physical birth, not by the will of man but of God ! ( John 1:13)

 

[JohnDB]

It seems to me you believe that on the matter of birth, you have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it.

Tong
R1089

Not what I said.
Read carefully what I said and then read the scriptures. You need help finding them?

 

[Enoch111]

Blood does not wash away sins in the literal sense.

When speaking of the blood of Christ, that is BOTH literal and spiritual.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the Faithful Witness, and the First Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood...(Rev 1:5)

This is God's truth, and must be believed wholeheartedly.

As to Calvinist John MacArthur, he holds to a mixture of truth and error. A dangerous combination.

 

[K9Buck]

Jesus did say that no man can come to Him except the Father draws him. So, God draws, but we must yield to that drawing.

As for John MacArthur, I have serious issues with him because of his tongue-twisting and semantics on the blood of Jesus. I truly question whether he is saved or not. He may just be a Pharisee.

I know he's worth at least a few million.