John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"

[JohnDB]

As to Calvinist John MacArthur, he holds to a mixture of truth and error. A dangerous combination.

There's not a one of us who has a perfect understanding of scriptures because we are simply human.
We all make mistakes.
However...
When you learn the truth, know its the truth, and still refuse to change...that's when it gets scary.

God is the judge...
Not us.

 

[Enoch111]

There's not a one of us who has a perfect understanding of scriptures because we are simply human.We all make mistakes.

While this may have some validity in general, evangelists, pastors and teachers cannot get away with this excuse. They have a duty to study the Scriptures and rightly divide the Word of Truth.

New American Standard Bible (James 3:1)
Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
King James Bible
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
International Standard Version
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely than others.

 

[JohnDB]

While this may have some validity in general, evangelists, pastors and teachers cannot get away with this excuse. They have a duty to study the Scriptures and rightly divide the Word of Truth.

New American Standard Bible (James 3:1)
Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
King James Bible
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
International Standard Version
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more severely than others.

You should read some of the letters from the early church fathers and theologians...
They were all over the place theologically speaking. They especially fought over the Millenial Reign.
I'm reminded of the stories about the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. There's a ladder sitting on a window ledge by a workman for 200 years because of the 6 denominations can't agree with what needs to happen to restore the building.
Then there's also the story of a chair used by the monks/priests to monitor the others to ensure nothing happens. One day the chair got inadvertently moved 8 inches so a guard could get a bit of shade in the heat...the resulting fight caused 11 people to go to the hospital.

And the church of the Holy Sepulchre to this day is still in shambles. They got the small inner building that houses the tomb somewhat fixed from what I hear...they used to have ratchet straps holding it together as well as steel beams. But the ladder still sits on the ledge.

 

[Tong2020]

when in facts its just the opposite. man has no more control over his spiritual birth than he does his physical birth, not by the will of man but of God ! ( John 1:13)

Yes Christophany. I wonder how one could believe that, on the matter of birth, one have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it. To me, that is an obvious and clear rejection of what is true. But as to the reason why such rejection, I can't say.

Tong
R1090

 

[Tong2020]

Not what I said.
Read carefully what I said and then read the scriptures. You need help finding them?

If not, then that would the other one, that is, you believe that, on the matter of birth, you don't have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it. If that is so, then that's good. If not, then what, if it's neither a yes or a no to my question.

The question was very simple, that is, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it? You can answer it with a simple yes or no. After which, if need be, you can give an explanation, even a very long one at that if you must. But bottom line, it's either yes or no. Since you seem to not able to say yes or no, you seem to have a problem with the simple question. Well,.....

Tong
R1091

 

[Tong2020]

When speaking of the blood of Christ, that is BOTH literal and spiritual.

And from Jesus Christ, who is the Faithful Witness, and the First Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood...(Rev 1:5)

This is God's truth, and must be believed wholeheartedly.

As I said, "washed us from our sins in his own blood" is a figure of speech. Blood does not wash away sins in the literal sense.

Were you literally washed by the literal blood of Jesus?

Tong
R1092

 

[JohnDB]

If not, then that would the other one, that is, you believe that, on the matter of birth, you don't have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it. If that is so, then that's good. If not, then what, if it's neither a yes or a no to my question.

The question was very simple, that is, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it? You can answer it with a simple yes or no. After which, if need be, you can give an explanation, even a very long one at that if you must. But bottom line, it's either yes or no. Since you seem to not able to say yes or no, you seem to have a problem with the simple question. Well,.....

Tong
R1091

No... again you have it wrong.
And if you had bothered to read and understand what I wrote you would see that.

 

[JohnDB]

If not, then that would the other one, that is, you believe that, on the matter of birth, you don't have knowledge, control, or influence regarding it. If that is so, then that's good. If not, then what, if it's neither a yes or a no to my question.

The question was very simple, that is, on the matter of birth, does one have knowledge, control, or influence whatsoever, concerning it? You can answer it with a simple yes or no. After which, if need be, you can give an explanation, even a very long one at that if you must. But bottom line, it's either yes or no. Since you seem to not able to say yes or no, you seem to have a problem with the simple question. Well,.....

Tong
R1091

It's a false dichotomy that I'm not going to engage in.

You are saying that the color blue tastes like either strawberries or turnips and asking which flavor I think it is...

And I'm trying to tell you that the color blue is not something that you can taste...but you keep insisting that I'm tasting one flavor or the other.

 

[Tong2020]

It's a false dichotomy that I'm not going to engage in.

You are saying that the color blue tastes like either strawberries or turnips and asking which flavor I think it is...

And I'm trying to tell you that the color blue is not something that you can taste...but you keep insisting that I'm tasting one flavor or the other.

Let me ask it in another way to ease things up for you.

Do you agree that in the matter of birth, you have nothing to do with it?

Tong
R1093

 

[justbyfaith]

A baby coming out of its mother's womb may in fact push with its legs because it wants to get out; thus inducing labour.

 

[Tong2020]

A baby coming out of its mother's womb may in fact push with its legs because it wants to get out; thus inducing labour.

So, you don't agree that in the matter of birth, you have nothing to do with it? It seems to me that for you, in the matter of birth, you believe that you have something to do with it. Do you really honestly believe that? Perhaps you can convince yourself that and say that to me with ease. But can you honestly say that to your parents? Can you honestly say that to God?

Tong
R1094

 

[Candidus]

No Candidus. We are saved by grace through faith, not fate.

The issue is, if John MacArthur's statement, that is, "you have nothing to do with being "born again". And in response to the thread topic, I said in post #109, that I agree and have explained myself there. And there is nothing in there that even suggest to the slightest bit that we are saved by fate.

Tong
R1082

If we have nothing to do with being born-again, then it is obvious that God's Fickle Finger of Fate is what imposes it upon hapless humans apart from their free-will.

Yes, it has everything to do with Fatalism!

 

[Candidus]

That may be how you see what Calvin or John MacArthur believes. I really care less about that. What I care about is what scriptures says.

But that is not the topic of this thread. If you'll notice, I make no reference to Calvinism nor whether John MacArthur is a calvinist or not.

Tong
R1084

It is not that I "see" what Calvin and Mac Arthur teach... it's what I "know" that they teach!

 

[marksman]

Acknowledging Christ IS accepting Christ. The "referencing of the antichrist" as you say, was anyone who DENIED Christ.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Honestly, it is very clear. Is English a second language to you that you find it hard to understand?

What is clear that in the Acts of the Apostles which is a record of what the New Testament Church said and did, salvation is spelt out very clearly. Repent, be baptised and receive the Holy Ghost. Not once does it mention about receiving Jesus into your heart? From that, the evidence is very conclusive.

 

[marksman]

Actually they do; but I will allow the reader to decide: I encourage everyone to be a Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) and look up the verses in question; for I believe that they teach clearly of the need of all men, to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

There is no mention of receiving Christ into your heart in those verses. You are reading into it what is not there.

 

[marksman]

Jesus did command the apostles and their successors to teach All nations and to baptize “born again” Matt 28:19 and Jn 3 they immediately went to the river and baptized!

Yes.....so what?

 

[Tong2020]

It is not what I "see" what Calvin and Mac Arthur teach... it's what I "know" that they teach!

Very well then, it is what you know they teach. No problem.

Tong
R1095

 

[marksman]

John 1:12, Revelation 3:20, Colossians 1:27.

The passage in John 1 v 12 is better rendered, To as many as take or get hold of Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name...

Which does not suggest one is receiving him into our hearts.

As for Rev. 3 v 20 and Colossians 1 v 27, you are drawing a very long bow finding such a concept in those two verses.

 

[Tong2020]

If we have nothing to do with being born-again, then it is obvious that God's Fickle Finger of Fate is what imposes it upon hapless humans apart from their free-will.

Yes, it has everything to do with Fatalism!

So you believe that, in the matter of birth, you have something to do with it. Well, apparently you can convince yourself that and believe that. But can you honestly say that to your parents? Can you honestly say that to God?

Tong
R1096

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no mention of receiving Christ into your heart in those verses. You are reading into it what is not there.

Again, I am content to let the reader decide. And I am certain that there are some who will disagree with you (specifically, those who have received Jesus into their hearts).

I suppose that the following principle is a curse on faithful preaching:

1Jo 4:5, They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Because the teaching is that only those who are already saved will accept faithful preaching when it is offered.

How, then, can anyone be saved who isn't?