Apparitions of the Virgin Mary

[Taken]

So the ministry of reconciliation is men telling other men how they can become converted IN Christ and reconciled to God? That sounds like what the average Christian should be doing....preaching the word of salvation.

Yep, that in Brief, is what I conveyed in my words.

separate ministry to administer reconciliation?
....seem to be suggesting it is a false practice.

... theory is certainly new to me. From whom did you learn it?

Mary

I just heard this Theory from you. DUH!! Lol

Separate ministry to "administer reconciliation".

Have no clue where you heard Your Theory, or what it is.
But if you think your Theory is false...
That would be for you to figure out what you are talking about and believe.

 

[Taken]

Hello marks,

Can you clarify this statement for me?

I can't imagine any sin let alone all sin to be justifiable..

Peace!

Naturally born in sin.
Committing sin before learning Knowledge, God exists, sin exists.

* God is Just.
He Forgives sin. Sin we did not know was sin.
* God is Just.
He forgives sin, we commit without intent.
* God extends His Grace.
He forgives sin, we knew was a sin but committed anyway.
* God is Patient.
He forgives sin, as many times as we ask.
* God is Just.
He provides a WAY for all men to hear His WAY, to be free of sin.
* God is patient.
He provides a man with years of a life to hear, mull it over, Freely choose, for a man to Accept Gods Offer and be Free of Sin...or Not.
* God is Just.
Every man will receive what he freely chooses.

God justified my sin, the day I was Naturally born in Sin, without my knowledge or option.

God justified me, Freed me from sin, the Day I accepted His Offer.

 

[Taken]

Are you referring to the Mary that Jesus referred to as "woman"?

!!

 

[Illuminator]

No problem at all to refute your claim.
Refuted:
The rich man's BODY was dead and Buried.
The rich man's Living soul Saw and Talked to Father Abraham's Living soul...in Hell.
Luke 16:
[22] ...the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he (rich man)... seeth Abraham
[24] And said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me...
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them (the Living) hear them.
[30] And he (the rich man) said, Nay, father Abraham:
[31] And he (Father Abraham) said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The rich man (prayed to) spoke with Abraham and you keep insisting such a thing is not in the Bible.

You are Trying Desperately to Compare TWO completely different things...while making False Accusations!

In hell, Saved Living souls and Unsaved living souls, (of Dead Bodies) could and did see one another and talk to one another.
It is not man-made...it's Scripture!

Nowhere in Scripture do people in hell talk to, or pray to, or pray for anybody. It looks like a new Taken made tradition you just made up.

The "men" (Abraham & rich man) are (Bodily Dead and Buried).
Their Living souls ARE (at that time) in Hell, seeing one another and having a conversation.
According to Scripture!

Father Abraham is in hell? You're not just confused, you're totally lost!

^ Out of Context. ^
In Hell, An Unsaved living Soul (rich man), was requesting a Saved Soul (Abraham), to have compassion on the rich man's Bodily Living Brothers on Earth!
Abraham's Living soul, REFUSED.

It's true Abraham refused, but how could he have refused if he didn't hear the rich man? Protestant theology insist saints can't hear prayers.

Your Accusations are Bunk.
Your Claims scenario:
* Is for A Bodily Living man, to pray TO, saints in Heaven.
Living saints in Heaven...are Saved living souls with Born Again spirits....and Dead buried Body's !
(That has Nothing to do with living souls in hell)...so your trying to compare is a failure.

That's what I keep trying to tell you. Hell is an unquenchable fire. Nobody in hell can pray or have compassion. Yours is a sugar coated New Age version of hell. The rich man cannot be in hell for those two reasons, (pray or have compassion) yet he is in torment, being purified from the consequences of his sins (wood, hay, straw). That harmonizes perfectly with 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 and Martin Luther's quote (that I agree with) in post #463 THAT NOBODY COULD FIND TO BE UNSCRIPTURAL!!!
That is a good description of purgatory indeed. Sin isn’t “done to God’s glory” so to the extent that are works were sinful, they (and we) will be judged. It’s striking that Protestants like Taken, kcnalp and Enoch111 cannot see that this is exactly what the doctrine of purgatory entails!!! post #463

Bunk!
Men can "Talk to", whomever they want.
Scripture Teaches TO NOT try to TALK TO the Dead.
( you should learn the difference between...
Can't and Shouldn't !)
Then you Should Learn WHY one Shouldn't talk to the Dead!!

Asking Abraham or Mary or any saint in heaven to intercede to God on our behalf is not necromancy. It's asking them to take our prayers to God on our behalf. Saints present prayers to God in Revelation 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4. Prayers may be answered by the power of God, not the saint. Not understanding is one thing, REFUSING TO UNDERSTAND is something else.

So what king Saul talked TO the Dead?
And what? king Saul got an "atta boy"? LOL uh no!
And so what? Moses and Elijah was seen by bodily alive men....Did those Bodily alive men TALK to Moses or Elijah? No... ! THE Bodily Alive men KNEW not to talk to souls or spirits of the men who were Bodily Dead!!!
*** (That is a Lesson you should learn!!!)

You are running from the truth that king Saul LEGITIMATELY talked to the dead prophet Samuel (1 Sam 28:12-15) that you refuse to accept FOR THE THIRD TIME. That has nothing to do with his sin of necromancy.

Dead men...are Dead body's.
Praying "TO dead men" FOR requests will net you a response as meaningful as praying TO a statue...(worthless Tradition! OF men)

Catholics don't pray TO statues, that's idolatry. The "pray to statues" is a stupid canard invented by ignorant anti-Catholics who are too blind to see that such prayers don't stop at wood or plaster. Do Catholics Worship Statues?

Ecc 9:5
[5] ... the dead know not any thing...

It was John Calvin that flipped between the physically dead and the spiritually dead, misleading millions of Protestants into perpetual division. The spiritually dead know nothing, the physically dead, such as the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1) are cheering us on and know more than you are willing to admit.

You speak in generalities...(people)
You make flat out Denials that contradict Scripture (rich man in hell)

The rich man can't be in hell. Your sugar coated New Age version of hell is not in Scripture.

You try to make comparisons of apples and oranges.
You make claims for others that are false.
You obviously have not the wherewithall to distinguish between A Body, Soul, Spirit of man.

No, I am trying to explain the doctrine of the Communion of Saints attacked by straw man fallacies and man made traditions. Answer the question: How is it possible for Jesus and Peter to raise the dead without simultaneously telling the dead person to rise??? This alone demolishes the illogical man made tradition that prayers to dead people is not found in the Bible.

First of all...having a meaningful discussion with you is a waste of Time...

 

[Philip James]

God justified my sin, the day I was Naturally born in Sin, without my knowledge or option

Hello Taken,

What do you mean by this?

Is this akin to 'all things work for the good of those who love God?

Or perhaps this from the exsultet:

"O truly necessary sin of Adam,
destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!
O happy fault
that earned so great, so glorious a Redeemer!"

(Taken from here: The Exsultet: The Proclamation of Easter | USCCB )

Peace!

 

[Taken]

I was specifically expressing ... what was said, was spoken....

You changed a simple conversation between Abraham's LIVING SOUL IN HELL, with a rich MAN'S LIVING SOUL IN HELL..
That I was talking about...

To:
not in Hell, people, praying, saints, Protestant Theology, lying, accusations against me, against others, Luther, purgatory, Samuel, Saul, blah, blah, blah.

That's what I keep trying to tell you. Hell is an unquenchable fire.

I've read what YOU say.
I disagree with most of what you say.

* I am well aware there "IS" unquenchable Fire "IN" Hell.
* I am well aware there "IS" A LAKE of Fire in Hell.
* I am well aware there "WAS" (during in the time Of Abraham's Bodily Death) ...
Abraham's Body was dead and Buried in a cave...
AND Abraham's Living Soul "WAS" in Hell!!
(Not "IN" unquenchiable Fire!), but was IN comfort, rest, call in That Day...Paradise.
* I am well aware there "WAS" a rich man that Bodily Died, and his Body was buried.
AND his Living Soul was IN Hell.
And the "part of Hell", the rich man's living soul WAS IN, was...fiery, hot, stunk of sulfur, without relief and tormenting.
* I am well aware, Between where Abraham WAS and where the rich man WAS..."WAS" a GREAT FIXED GULF.
* I choose to believe a GREAT FIXED GULF...
Is a Large Immovable Body of Water.
* I am well aware the GREAT Fixed Gulf could Not be crossed.
* All of those things ARE clearly taught in Scripture.

Makes NOT one bit of difference to me, if you believe Scripture or not.

Nobody in hell can pray or have compassion.

So? I wasn't talking about praying or having compassion.

I was Speifically talking about what Jesus taught...
Abrahams Saved Living soul in Hell, SEEING, HEARING, Talking to an Unsaved living soul, and the Unsaved Living soul SEEING, HEARING, TALKING.

That is a sugar coated New Age version of hell.

Whelp...it came direct to me From a really OLD Bible...so no reason for me to agree with you.

The rich man cannot be in hell for those two reasons,

And here IS Two Reasons the rich man IS in Hell:
1) Jesus said so.
2) Jesus IS the Truth

See if you can stay focused for one minute and give ONE Scriptural Example of ONE Living Person, ASKING, (ANY THING), in Heaven Anything.

 

[Marymog]

Yep, that in Brief, is what I conveyed in my words.



I just heard this Theory from you. DUH!! Lol



Have no clue where you heard Your Theory, or what it is.
But if you think your Theory is false...
That would be for you to figure out what you are talking about and believe.

You keep me in stitches kiddo!!!! You make me laugh but then I realize how condescending you are and it makes me sad for you. I really don’t understand your style of conveying your thoughts sooooo I will digress from this one...

Take care....Mary

 

[Taken]

Hello Taken,

What do you mean by this?

Man IS sinful.
God IS Forgiving.
God IS Just.
God provides a WAY for man's Freedom from sin.

Taken

 

[Philip James]

Man IS sinful.
God IS Forgiving.
God IS Just.
God provides a WAY for man's Freedom from sin.

Taken

Agreed,

But how does that 'justify our sin' ?
I gave some examples of concepts that I think might come close to what I think you are saying, but I find your phrasing problematic.
Is rebellion ever justified?

Peace!

 

[kcnalp]

No it will be Christ judging people on what they said about His mother.

Mary was a sinner. Jesus was her Savior.

 

[kcnalp]

The rich man (prayed to) spoke with Abraham and you keep insisting such a thing is not in the Bible.

The rich man is burning in Hell fire. Is he your example?

 

[Taken]

Agreed,

But how does that 'justify our sin' ?
I gave some examples of concepts that I think might come close to what I think you are saying, but I find your phrasing problematic.

Hi-
Moreso He justifies us...because of our sin.

Is rebellion ever justified?

Peace!

Ever? I would say the Facts would be necessary to determine that.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

Mary was a sinner. Jesus was her Savior.

Until you can list a sin....sinless

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Myself I don't believe any of the apparitions of Mary to be from God or have to do with the True God. People are always wanting people to ignore the scriptures it's patterns and so forth. You will not find anywhere in the scriptures where an Angel comes to any prophet in the form of a woman.

 

[Taken]

Until you can list a sin....sinless

Naturally born.

 

[kcnalp]

Until you can list a sin....sinless

You have ZERO proof that Mary was sinless.

Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Except Jesus:
1 Peter 2:21-22 (NKJV)
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth";

 

[Candidus]

No it will be Christ judging people on what they said about His mother.

I like how you twist Scripture by implying that an insult to the mother of Jesus is tantamount to Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

Apart from a physical family perspective, spiritually speaking, according to Jesus, Mary ranks as just a "woman" and not a Co-Redeemer.

 

[Grailhunter]

I like how you twist Scripture by implying that an insult to the mother of Jesus is tantamount to Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

Apart from a physical family perspective, spiritually speaking, according to Jesus, Mary ranks as just a "woman" and not a Co-Redeemer.

Mary is not the Holy Spirit so untwist that in your head.
Again, you are sighting what happened in the first 65 years of Christianity...you still have 1955 years of God with People interacting and doing much of what He did in the Bible. What happened in the NT was the most important, but as far as God and Mary interacting with people, thousands of events worldwide, thousands of times, over nearly thousands of years.
Mary is obviously a champion of God, she is on a mission. The Catholic do not believe she is a redeemer, they believe she intercedes for us. From what I see in history, that is true.

 

[Candidus]

Mary is not the Holy Spirit so untwist that in your head.
Again, you are sighting what happened in the first 65 years of Christianity...you still have 1955 years of God with People interacting and doing much of what He did in the Bible. What happened in the NT was the most important, but as far as God and Mary interacting with people, thousands of events worldwide, thousands of times, over nearly thousands of years.
Mary is obviously a champion of God, she is on a mission. The Catholic do not believe she is a redeemer, they believe she intercedes for us. From what I see in history, that is true.

Nonsense... Millions have gone to Fatima and were never healed. Mary appearing on toast, and especially in private where no one can prove anything, is the appearance of a demon, or fake news.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof! Unicorn sightings have just as much evidence!

 

[Grailhunter]

Nonsense... Millions have gone to Fatima and were never healed. Mary appearing on toast, and especially in private where no one can prove anything, is the appearance of a demon, or fake news.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof! Unicorn sightings have just as much evidence!

I have no problem with you not believing what the Catholic Church believes.
Some aberrations have been seen by thousands.
People can say anything and some of those things will come back to haunt them.
Then associating Mary with demons and fake and making fun of her....better you than me.
I have no need or desire to prove any of this to you. Believe what you wish.