Jesus isn't Catholic

[justbyfaith]

Thank you.

What I understand you to be saying is that if I determine that someone has a genuine relationship with Jesus then they are part of 'the church'?

I sincerely hope I got that right....

No.

Only God and that person know whether they truly have a relationship with Him.

You can only know for yourself whether you have that relationship...and if you do...then you have an unction from the Holy One (1 John 2:20) and do not need anyone to teach you (1 John 2:27); but the anointing within you will teach you to abide in Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sooooo which one of those billions (there are 2 billion Christians in the world) of 'born again believers' are we supposed to go to to fulfill Matthew 18:16 and 1 Timothy 3:15?

There is an official church organization that consists of those in leadership at any given local congregation; through which church discipline can be enacted if that is your cup of tea.

 

[ChristisGod]

Sooooo which one of those billions (there are 2 billion Christians in the world) of 'born again believers' are we supposed to go to to fulfill Matthew 18:16 and 1 Timothy 3:15?

Acts 7:46-50
David found favor in God’s sight, and asked that he might find a dwelling place for the God of Jacob. 47 But it was Solomon who built a house for Him. 48 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands; as the prophet says:

49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is the footstool of My feet;
What kind of house will you build for Me?’ says the Lord,
‘Or what place is there for My repose?
50 ‘Was it not My hand which made all these things?’

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.

 

[Philip James]

You must place you faith wholly in Jesus and what He did for you in order to be saved.

Well of course we do!

We don't hang up crucifixes for nothing ;)

Have you ever heard of the stations of the cross?

Stations of the Cross - Prayers - Catholic Online

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

What do you guys think ?

Hmm

..... I have several friends that by the Grace-of God, have had their eyes opened to “ Nothing But The Blood”..

I think it's ironic that you say this while referencing those who abandoned the Eucharist..

Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?

Peace!

 

[Marymog]

No.

Only God and that person know whether they truly have a relationship with Him.

You can only know for yourself whether you have that relationship...and if you do...then you have an unction from the Holy One (1 John 2:20) and do not need anyone to teach you (1 John 2:27); but the anointing within you will teach you to abide in Him.

Ok...I see what you are saying now!!!

In theory: If I know that I have a true relationship with Him I can use myself as the minimum criteria that must be met as evidence that someone else has a true relationship with Him.

So as long as someone believes, practices, preaches, teaches etc. the same thing that I do it is then that I KNOW that they have a true relationship with Him. If they don't met my criteria I know they don't have a true relationship with Him.

I guess I could put my thought process on this matter in a scenario: A person comes to me and says that they KNOW they have a true relationship with Him. I say ditto...ME TOO....let's be friends and talk Scripture. Several conversations/days later they tell me that one MUST eat His body and drink His blood in the form of bread/wine to have a true relationship with Him because scripture says Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. They say I want to have eternal life and be raised on the last day that is why I participate in the Eucharist.

I tell them, no, no, no, that's not true. That is NOT what Scripture means. It's a metaphor etc. etc. etc.

So I ask you justbyfaith...which one of us truly has a relationship with him? The one who participates in bread/wine or the one who doesn't? BTW...we both think that we don't need anyone to teach us so we walk away from each other mad....

Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

no the little catholic body of Christ not the corrupted RCC church there is a HUGE difference between the True Church little catholic as in universal and the Big C as in the RCC the false church.

What is "RCC Church"??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Romans 7:9 is the verse on the age of accountability.

This verse has NOTHING to do with physical age.
It has to do with the LAW.

Try again . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you need a confirmation, Because??

Do you believe, Little Children and older incompentant ... remain Unsaved Because they can not comprehend TO confess?

No - because I'm NOT a Sola Scripturist like YOU.
I believe in the Teaching Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15).

SO - BACK to the question:
According to YOUR formula - if the ONLY way to be saved is by a "true heartful confession" - are ALL children under the "age of reason" condemned to Hell.
What about people with impaired mental capabilities?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I know I'm butting in; but let me put in my two cents.
The true church consists of all those who genuinely place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and what He did for them on the Cross, for salvation.

Then WHO makes the authoritative decision when there is an issue between fellow believes, per Matt. 18:15-18??

I'll wait right here for your answer . . .

 

[Marymog]

There is an official church organization that consists of those in leadership at any given local congregation; through which church discipline can be enacted if that is your cup of tea.

Hi JBF<

That is true. Good point.

I work best thru scenarios if you would just bear with me: You and I are talking to a mutual friend who tells us that they now believe in Jesus. They tell us to complete the process of becoming a Christian they want to be baptized to wash away their sins because that is what Scripture tells them to do (their personal interpretation). I tell them, "Yup, you are right. You must be baptized. It is necessary". You tell them, "Nope, baptism is not necessary. If you really want to do it it would just be a public display so that everyone knows you are a Christian.... but you really don't have to get baptized".

Which "official church organization" do we go to to fulfill Matthew 18:15-18? Please take in to consideration that my church teaches that they HAVE to be baptized in order to be saved (so it is a salvation/no salvation thing) and vs 18 makes it clear that the decision by my "official church organization" or YOUR "official church organization" will be bound in heaven.

 

[justbyfaith]

No - because I'm NOT a Sola Scripturist like YOU.
I believe in the Teaching Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15).

SO - BACK to the question:
According to YOUR formula - if the ONLY way to be saved is by a "true heartful confession" - are ALL children under the "age of reason" condemned to Hell.
What about people with impaired mental capabilities?

What does the Pope say on the matter?

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok...I see what you are saying now!!!

In theory: If I know that I have a true relationship with Him I can use myself as the minimum criteria that must be met as evidence that someone else has a true relationship with Him.

So as long as someone believes, practices, preaches, teaches etc. the same thing that I do it is then that I KNOW that they have a true relationship with Him. If they don't met my criteria I know they don't have a true relationship with Him.

I guess I could put my thought process on this matter in a scenario: A person comes to me and says that they KNOW they have a true relationship with Him. I say ditto...ME TOO....let's be friends and talk Scripture. Several conversations/days later they tell me that one MUST eat His body and drink His blood in the form of bread/wine to have a true relationship with Him because scripture says Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. They say I want to have eternal life and be raised on the last day that is why I participate in the Eucharist.

I tell them, no, no, no, that's not true. That is NOT what Scripture means. It's a metaphor etc. etc. etc.

So I ask you justbyfaith...which one of us truly has a relationship with him? The one who participates in bread/wine or the one who doesn't? BTW...we both think that we don't need anyone to teach us so we walk away from each other mad....

Mary

I think that you are assuming that Protestants don't partake of communion.

A question I have for you is, Does a person have to believe that communion is the literal body and blood of Jesus Christ in order for that communion to be valid as a sacrament?

Also, does saying that the priest "transubstantiates" the Jesus cookie into the literal body and blood of Christ, in any way produce a dependence on the organization of the Catholic Church? And is this dependence in any way cult-like?

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi JBF<

That is true. Good point.

I work best thru scenarios if you would just bear with me: You and I are talking to a mutual friend who tells us that they now believe in Jesus. They tell us to complete the process of becoming a Christian they want to be baptized to wash away their sins because that is what Scripture tells them to do (their personal interpretation). I tell them, "Yup, you are right. You must be baptized. It is necessary". You tell them, "Nope, baptism is not necessary. If you really want to do it it would just be a public display so that everyone knows you are a Christian.... but you really don't have to get baptized".

Which "official church organization" do we go to to fulfill Matthew 18:15-18? Please take in to consideration that my church teaches that they HAVE to be baptized in order to be saved (so it is a salvation/no salvation thing) and vs 18 makes it clear that the decision by my "official church organization" or YOUR "official church organization" will be bound in heaven.

Since I am primarily Oneness to a strong degree, I believe that baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins is going to be the proper method of salvation (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12, Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:1-4, etc.); while the Bible also teaches that a man shall be saved if he merely calls on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

I see it his way: In John 3:16, a man "should not perish" if he merely believes...iffy.

In Mark 16:16, he "shall be saved" if he believes and is baptized. This is more absolute terminology and there is more assurance in it (see 1 Thessalonians 1:5 (kjv)).

In Romans 10:13, he also "shall be saved" if he calls on the name of the Lord.

If baptism is necessary, it is believer's baptism that will do the trick (Mark 16:16)...if someone was baptized Catholic as an infant therefore, and subsequently comes to faith in Jesus as an adult, they need to be re-baptized.

In answer to your question, it is important that you get your answers from the Bible and not from any human source.

Above is what I believe on the issue. I encourage you to be a Berean (Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11) and check what I am preaching by the word of the Lord.

I assure you that I study to shew myself approved and do not desire to deceive you in any way. But you shouldn't take my word for it concerning that. Any human being might lead you astray; so if I were you I would look to the Bible as the ultimate authority.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then WHO makes the authoritative decision when there is an issue between fellow believes, per Matt. 18:15-18??

I'll wait right here for your answer . . .

There is an official church organization that consists of those in leadership at any given local congregation; through which church discipline can be enacted if that is your cup of tea.

Please note that I am having the same conversation with @Marymog, and that we do not need to be redundant; unless there is some point that has been missed in the conversation.

 

[justbyfaith]

No - because I'm NOT a Sola Scripturist like YOU.
I believe in the Teaching Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15).

SO - BACK to the question:
According to YOUR formula - if the ONLY way to be saved is by a "true heartful confession" - are ALL children under the "age of reason" condemned to Hell.
What about people with impaired mental capabilities?

I believe that Romans 7:9 does in fact give an answer to this question, if you are willing to discern the truth of the matter coming from this scripture.

 

[ChristisGod]

What is "RCC Church"??

Roman Catholic Church

 

[BreadOfLife]

Roman Catholic Church

What's the "Roman" Catholic Church?
Time for a little reality check . . .

"Roman" simply refers to ONE of about TWENTY Liturgical Rites. There is also the Meklite Rite, Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, etc.
They are NOT the "Melkite Catholic Church" or the "Maronite Catholic Church". We ALL comprise the ONE "Catholic Church". - and YOU'RE not a part of it.

If you have been Baptized i the true Trinitarian formula - you are RELATED to the Church - but are self-separated and in need of returning home.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What does the Pope say on the matter?

The SAME thing the Church has taught for 2000 years - and that we read in Scripture:
That we born again at Baptism when our sins are forgiven and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38-39, 1 Pet. 3:21).

 

[ChristisGod]

What's the "Roman" Catholic Church?
Time for a little reality check . . .

"Roman" simply refers to ONE of about TWENTY Liturgical Rites. There is also the Meklite Rite, Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, etc.
They are NOT the "Melkite Catholic Church" or the "Maronite Catholic Church". We ALL comprise the ONE "Catholic Church". - and YOU'RE not a part of it.

If you have been Baptized i the true Trinitarian formula - you are RELATED to the Church - but are self-separated and in need of returning home.

Thanks for the advice but I will pass. I'm saved by Jesus alone and trusting in Him for my salvation not any church. He is the Savior, Redeemer, Priest, Mediator and King. I'm in His Kingdom and I serve Him.

There is One God and One Mediator between God and man , the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5.

No catholic church can save me, no orthodox church can save me, no protestant church can save me. Christ ALONE is the Savior of the world. No earthly human or church Saves anyone from hell only Jesus can do that my friend. You can take that to the bank and cash it in as its as good as gold in Gods eyes.

Jesus died and paid the price for my sins. Read about that in your bible.

hope this helps !!!