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The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
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While this question is not addressed to me, it should be clear that since Jesus Himself is Eternal Life, believing on Him = Eternal Security.
Jesus said unto her, I am The Resurrection, and The Life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)
There are numerous passages in the NT which speak of the eternal security of the believer. It should not even be debatable, but it is.
We cannot do the works specified in the Sermon on the Mount apart from being saved by grace through faith...receiving the love of the Lord into our hearts (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5). Apart from the grace of Christ, all of us are spiritual lepers in need of cleansing.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord (Romans 3:23).
And, therefore, to say that we can be saved through obedience to the Sermon on the Mount is actually quite preposterous.
Because no one is able to keep the law (Galatians 6:13); whether you are talking about the Old Testament law or "the law of Christ."
For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe (Galatians 3:22).
Therefore the only way to enter in, is to have the perfect righteousness of Christ applied to your account...that is called propitiation in scripture...as your sins are nailed to the Cross as He took the penalty for them in His suffering and death.
As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them." (Galatians 3:10).
Therefore, if you are of the law...i.e. it is your contention that you will be righteous and receive salvation as the result of obeying any set of do's and don'ts....you are under the curse.
Because Galatians 3:22, Galatians 6:13 make it clear that you have not kept every moral tenet given in scripture from conception into eternity...and therefore you fall short...and therefore are condemned and cursed over the fact that you have chosen the law as the means by which you will save yourself.
You have sought to establish your own righteousness and in doing so you have not submitted to the righteousness of the Lord (Romans 10:3-4).
Yes...and the reason is that the majority of biblical scholarship comes from an unbelieving base of people.
Those who believe in Christ...those who are born again....those that we can define as truly "Christian"...believe that all of scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord (Romans 3:23).
And, therefore, to say that we can be saved through obedience to the Sermon on the Mount is actually quite preposterous.
Because no one is able to keep the law (Galatians 6:13); whether you are talking about the Old Testament law or "the law of Christ."
For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe (Galatians 3:22).
Therefore the only way to enter in, is to have the perfect righteousness of Christ applied to your account...that is called propitiation in scripture...as your sins are nailed to the Cross as He took the penalty for them in His suffering and death.
As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them." (Galatians 3:10).
Therefore, if you are of the law...i.e. it is your contention that you will be righteous and receive salvation as the result of obeying any set of do's and don'ts....you are under the curse.
Because Galatians 3:22, Galatians 6:13 make it clear that you have not kept every moral tenet given in scripture from conception into eternity...and therefore you fall short...and therefore are condemned and cursed over the fact that you have chosen the law as the means by which you will save yourself.
You have sought to establish your own righteousness and in doing so you have not submitted to the righteousness of the Lord (Romans 10:3-4).
Yes...and the reason is that the majority of biblical scholarship comes from an unbelieving base of people.
Those who believe in Christ...those who are born again....those that we can define as truly "Christian"...believe that all of scripture is inspired of the Lord and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).
This is an interesting discussion in what is unbelief. Highest position thought of is unbelief is the unforgivable sin which dooms all to hell. Jesus says you are saved because you believe. Like a magic twinkler, saved eternally in the moment with no give backs, like being chosen and forced into prison, imprisoned in heaven for all eternity.
These words sound negative yet it is the belief system. To dis believe this theology is unbelief dooming one to hell.
Jesus talks of belief in Him which means listening and following Him. Unbelief is not listening and not following ie denying who Jesus is.
But the logic goes saying belief is following is earning the gift, while the gift is the opportunity to follow.
One version is passive faith, the other is active and alive. One cannot have both. When Jesus called the disciples He said follow implying because you believe, not believe but do whatever you want.....
It may be necessary at some point...as it might be the only way that you can keep your helmet (of salvation) firmly placed on your head in the time of battle...which may be a critical aspect for your victory in the battle.
btw, I do not contend for OSAS as it is believed by many...
I make a distinction and promote the concept of POTS.
The first (OSAS) gives the impression that a man can say a prayer and then go and live like hell and will still enter the kingdom.
Whereas POTS has within it the concept that you must be a saint and that this means that you will persevere because of the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit.
The debate is if you do not follow you have not believed.
If a guy says this is how you cross a busy road and you do not listen and run across, you have not believed the guy.
Belief appears to be I have this free gift, I am ok, and that's it eternally. If you talk to people you soon discover there are more ideas than people as regards what belief is. Get on to love and it gets far bigger a problem. Little wonder few understand these few observations.
1_ that is neither a strawman - nor an argument from silence .. you have no clue what the terms you are using mean. Further I am not in isolation from the rest of scripture ... you are projecting your issues onto me.
I do not ignore the other scripture .. you are the one ignoring the Teachings of Jesus in Mark/Matt .. in a desperate attempt to prop up a doctrine that the majority of Christianity disagrees with.
What is this nonsense ? Jesus says what he says .. either you can accept his teachings .. your you can not.
What is "The will of the Father" according to Jesus from the Sermon he has just given ..
Hint .. perhaps you want to look in the Sermon .. rather than to Paul .. a dude who writes nothing of the life of Jesus . because he never knew the man.
And you do not understand the huge debate over that went on within the Catholic Church .. you have no clue what you are talking about.
What part of Catholics do not believe that every word in the Bible is the Literal word of God ... are you having trouble understanding ?
from post #523 (The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS)
We cannot do the works specified in the Sermon on the Mount apart from being saved by grace through faith...receiving the love of the Lord into our hearts (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5). Apart from the grace of Christ, all of us are spiritual lepers in need of cleansing.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord (Romans 3:23).
And, therefore, to say that we can be saved through obedience to the Sermon on the Mount is actually quite preposterous.
Because no one is able to keep the law (Galatians 6:13); whether you are talking about the Old Testament law or "the law of Christ."
For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe (Galatians 3:22).
Therefore the only way to enter in, is to have the perfect righteousness of Christ applied to your account...that is called propitiation in scripture...as your sins are nailed to the Cross as He took the penalty for them in His suffering and death.
As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them." (Galatians 3:10).
Therefore, if you are of the law...i.e. it is your contention that you will be righteous and receive salvation as the result of obeying any set of do's and don'ts....you are under the curse.
Because Galatians 3:22, Galatians 6:13 make it clear that you have not kept every moral tenet given in scripture from conception into eternity...and therefore you fall short...and therefore are condemned and cursed over the fact that you have chosen the law as the means by which you will save yourself.
You have sought to establish your own righteousness and in doing so you have not submitted to the righteousness of the Lord (Romans 10:3-4).
To @Heyzeus.
We cannot do the works specified in the Sermon on the Mount apart from being saved by grace through faith...receiving the love of the Lord into our hearts (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5). Apart from the grace of Christ, all of us are spiritual lepers in need of cleansing.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord (Romans 3:23).
And, therefore, to say that we can be saved through obedience to the Sermon on the Mount is actually quite preposterous.
Because no one is able to keep the law (Galatians 6:13); whether you are talking about the Old Testament law or "the law of Christ."
For the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe (Galatians 3:22).
Therefore the only way to enter in, is to have the perfect righteousness of Christ applied to your account...that is called propitiation in scripture...as your sins are nailed to the Cross as He took the penalty for them in His suffering and death.
As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them." (Galatians 3:10).
Therefore, if you are of the law...i.e. it is your contention that you will be righteous and receive salvation as the result of obeying any set of do's and don'ts....you are under the curse.
Because Galatians 3:22, Galatians 6:13 make it clear that you have not kept every moral tenet given in scripture from conception into eternity...and therefore you fall short...and therefore are condemned and cursed over the fact that you have chosen the law as the means by which you will save yourself.
You have sought to establish your own righteousness and in doing so you have not submitted to the righteousness of the Lord (Romans 10:3-4).
To @Heyzeus.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Paul knew the man who was also God but obviously you have never met Him.
Ever heard of Damascus?
Ever read 2 Peter 3:15-16 ?
and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Looks like you are up a creek without a paddle.
Are you an Atheist ?
Sure we can .. perhaps you should read the book . What a joke of a response ... as this is not about whether or not you can do the things Jesus specifies as the "the will of the Father"
This is about what the will of the Father is - and clearly you can't handle the teachings of Jesus w/r to "the will of the Father" as after this pathetic non response to the issue you again go running to Pauline Scripture having nothing to do with the Teachings of Jesus in Matt.
Note it isn't .. what a ridiculously false and absurd comment .. Most involved in Biblical Scholarship are deeply religious people. You have no clue what you are talking about and are upset that reality conflicts with the house of sand you have built your ideology on.
Further .. what part of - the vast majority of Christianity does not believe "faith alone" doctrine - do you not understand .. are all these folks "unbelieving".
This is the problem with fundamentalist... they have boxed themself into such an ideological corner that they have to call all other Christians "heretics" in order to maintain their belief system ..
This is irritating .. and horrible for Christianity..
Right .. you are the "True Christian" here .. the rest of us heathens are under the influence of Satan the deciever ..
Yet you quote from a text that is mired in Pious Fraud .. Paul didn't write the text you are quoting from.
As I said before, the way to life is narrow and few there be that find it (Matthew 7:13-14).
You betcha...
There are a few other true Christians here also....I am not the only one.
Yet you could not even respond to my quotation as a complete sentence...you had to cut it short in order to make it pliable.
LOL .. nope .. You are the one distorting scripture .. and projecting your issues onto others.
"Are you an Atheist?" .. Sorry that not every Christian has the same extremist perspective that you have .. but I don't call those other Christians Atheists or followers of Satan .. like the fundamentalists zealot's do.
Those folks are just like those that Jesus describes in Matt 7
Matt 7
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
... 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
That is the path these folks seem to be on.. don't you think ?
I take the whole of scripture into account....not just what is in Matthew/Mark.
I do not ignore what is written in Matthew/Mark....as a matter of fact, I read through both books about once/month...and I integrate what I read into sound doctrine that I have determined to be true from reading the rest of what is written in holy scripture.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
shake the dust off your feet and move on its not with the time @justbyfaith
some people are unteachable.
some people are unteachable.
@Heyzeus,
Do you think that obeying what is written in the Sermon on the Mount saves you?
You ought to consider that Jesus said that if you do not forsake all that you have, you also cannot be His disciple (Luke 14:33)...
So if you are going to enter into the kingdom by obeying everything Jesus says you need to do...I'm sorry, but you are going to have to go and become a homeless person.
Do you think that obeying what is written in the Sermon on the Mount saves you?
You ought to consider that Jesus said that if you do not forsake all that you have, you also cannot be His disciple (Luke 14:33)...
So if you are going to enter into the kingdom by obeying everything Jesus says you need to do...I'm sorry, but you are going to have to go and become a homeless person.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Yes for the most part I reclon .. ... absolutely .. I believe in the Teachings of Jesus as per SOM. in particular the main teaching though.. the Rule that "Sums up the Law and the Prophets"..
That wording is kind of like alarm bells going of is it not ? "Sums up the Law and the Prophets" .. perhaps I should pay attention to this rule .. hmmmm .. are you with me so far ? ding ding ding .. no bells going off ... silence .. whats happening .. inquiring minds want to know.
and you know the rule - aka- "The Will of the Father" .. who art in Heaven .. Hallowed be is Sacred Name .. which is a coat of many colors
Not so tough to follow - Jesus gives you one simple rule OK .. Just try to treat others the way you would like to be treated .. Love your neighbor .. as you yourself liked to be loved .. these are my commands .. and I know them so well I can play around a bit...
Jesus restates this rule numerous times .. Judge Not lest you be judged on the standards by which you judge others ..
Jesus sets a really low bar .. Try to be more righteous than the Pharisee's .. and the Lawgivers (Martin ? - wold in sheep clothing perhaps . .need I repost is famous treatise) who Jesus hated
what is so tough about this ? If you want to be perfect .. drop everything and enter the Priesthood .. hopefully Orthodox or Protestant so you can have a wife ...
what is so difficult .. I told you did I not .. was raised Lutheran .. founder of your namesake ideology .. have close relatives (note the (s) been through the Seminary 8 years - learning Latin, Hebrew, Greek .. I didn't just wake up and have this argument yesterday .. but .. I promise that at the end of the day ... Your foundation will have become stronger .. by moving a little down the spectrum from the extremist perspective .. same with the literalism ..
Hope you read the link on "El Shaddia" - and Welcome to El - 101 .. When you go to a proper Seminary .. like the "Missouri Synod" in St. Louis .. you learn this ...modern scholarship is irrefutable in some respects .. we have biblical texts .. and know what they mean .. know what terms like "Sons of God" would have meant to an Israelite/Canaanite .. back in the days when you were named after your God ... Isra-El Samu- El .. and the text gives numeous other examples.
You believed the same thing .. everyone know who "El Shadai" was - you both speak the same language .. have lived amongst each other for hundreds of years .. intermarriage .. shared religious culture .. Everyone knows who "El" is and everyone believes in other Gods .. but each city has their own personal God .. or cities .. a collective .. as would have been the case with Israel .. YHW being their God .. and they were not to worship the others .. but they believed in their existence .. the Divine Pantheon .. everyone believed in this ... and also that there was one Top Dog .. and even if they were giving that top dog different names - it doesn't matter because they are both describing the same God..
And after all .. where did the Canaanites Come from
.. perhaps some of the lineage still survived but they were Semetic people .. livin in the Cradle .. comingled for hundreds of years. The Canaanite epithets for their Top Dog "El" are the same as those for YHWH .. The Creator .. the Father .. God of the Mountain - the Most High .. and numerous others..
this is a happy thing .. as - from a humanist perspective - want to get as far as possible away from the God YHWH .. who started out as El's son .. "Son of God" .. one of 70 according to the Ugaritic texts
Like Jesus .. the Son eventually became the Father. God is one .. and it matters not what we name the various emanations from the Godhead.
What matters - is the Golden Rule .. Let ye who is without Sin .. Cast the first rock .. Take log out of own eye .. and so on. so many examples he gives...
Ruth was justified by works ...
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