There seems to be much hostility in you. Why is that? Are you in a spirit of rebellion?
Please highlight the portion of scripture that you believe I have not addressed and I will respond.
Thank You.
The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS
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There seems to be much hostility in you. Why is that? Are you in a spirit of rebellion?
Please highlight the portion of scripture that you believe I have not addressed and I will respond.
Thank You.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I'm not running from anything just correcting your false teaching on Paul letters not being inspired by God.
But in a nutshell Matthew 5-7 is kingdom living by grace for believers. Its the gospel of the kingdom being lived out as salt and light on this earth. Jesus gets right to the heart of man and not the outside appearance of the religionists.
hope this helps !!!
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Ok you are not promoting anything.
But you are in disagreement with others.
You don't seem to be able to explain, WHY.
Flat out answer for yourself.
Do you believe you can DO Works to Gloryify God, Without Faith?
Martin Luther and Sola-fide are not the topic.
Glory to God,
Taken
LOL - a spirit of Rebellion .. would that be the spirit of Jesus you are referring to .. as Jesus was a rebellious spirit as well
This majority of Christianity does not view the entire Bible as the "Literal word of God"
but if You Do .. then answer this question.
Question - Which is the word of God
A) children should be killed for the sins of their parents
B) children should not be killed for the sins of their parents .
If you don't know ... that is fine .. but at least address the question.
A man is saved through a living faith alone...if given the opportunity, a living faith will produce works....however the works do not save the man (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:5-6, Romans 11:5-6).
Thanks for posting a passage that has zero to do with the topic
You said that the majority of those in Christendom don't believe in sola fide...to which I responded with the concept that the way to life is narrow and few there be that find it.
No one is running from Jesus' words.
However, scripture interprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)).
A person is "justified"...counted righteous "before men" (Romans 4:2) by his works...
Before God, he is "justified"...counted righteous "before God" (saved) through faith apart from works (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).
He is also regenerated and renewed "not by works of righteousness which he has done" (Titus 3:5)
In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus is obviously referring to those who were trusting in their works to save them.
They say, "Did we not do many wonderful works in Your name?"...they were trusting in what they did, for salvation, rather than in what Christ has done for them...in seeking to establish their own righteousness, they failed to submit to the righteousness of the Lord (Romans 10:3-4).
LOL - a spirit of Rebellion .. would that be the spirit of Jesus you are referring to .. as Jesus was a rebellious spirit as well
This majority of Christianity does not view the entire Bible as the "Literal word of God"
but if You Do .. then answer this question.
Question - Which is the word of God
A) children should be killed for the sins of their parents
B) children should not be killed for the sins of their parents .
If you don't know ... that is fine .. but at least address the question.
Go back and take a look at my first response to your post. It was in response to Romans and rebellion to authority (and claiming something about Hitler). Do you now ask me these new questions because you have no Biblical response to my reply?
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Some only ask questions like the Pharisees with Jesus but refuse to answer questions themselves. Utter hypocrisy.
Already gave a response.
[/QUOTE] James is talking about how works show you to be righteous (in Christ, of course). And so faith that is alone shows you do not have the righteousness of Christ and are not saved. [/QUOTE]
Like I said...between men!
"SHOWING" for MEN to SEE.
Faith alone, means you are Not Saved? Pfft!
And EXACTLY How and When are you Privy to A MAN, making a Heartfelt Confession of Belief TO God?
Do you drag an x-ray machine around hoping to SEE what's in a man's heart? Are you psychic? Are you all powerful that You can search a man's Heart as does God?
Because Scripture Reveals... YOU do not have Access to what is in a man's Heart. You can not SEE what Thought is in a man's Heart, anymore than you can SEE God.
Correct- ....
However you appear to be missing the Fact;
• A Commitment of Faith...
• JUSTIFIES a man to BE Saved, Sanctified and Redeemed!
• A committed man HAVING -
* Been Saved and Sanctified
* WHO Does WORKS to Glorify God
• IS JUSTIFIED to receive Rewards.
Works are IRRELEVANT...DO NOTHING to Glorify God...by a man WHO is Without Faith.
Yes- and JUSTIFIED, To receive Salvation and Sanctification and Redemption.
No- God is all-knowing, He doesn't Require a "showing".
Works are for "showing the eyes of men!"
You are preaching Works EARN Salvation.
No they do not.
An Atheist can be a kind, friendly, helpful, neighbor/ coworker/ relative...
And Remain unsaved!
And while they may be kind, friendly, helpful TO YOU, they DO NOT ONE WORK to Glorify God.
That is Secular gradeschool preaching.
Be nice, be kind, be helpful...and what?
People might like you and accept you?
In the Spiritual Sense,
It is Gods Acceptance a Believer Strives for...
It is according to Gods WAY,
That Accomplishes a man to Succeed and Become Converted...and Forever Acceptable to God.
Faith and Works-
Two Separate issues-
Two separate Justifications-
Two separate Pronounced Judgements-
• Judgement follows the Same path:
Men shall be Judged On having Become Converted or Not.
"Glorified Body or Damned Body"
• Men shall be Judged On Works they Did or Did not Do to Glorify God.
"Reward" for Works Glorifying God
"Works Burned" that did not Glorify God
Works have NO Consideration...UNTIL after a Commitment of Faith.
Glory to God,
Taken
How is talking about Paul - in any way shape or form - not running from the discussion of Jesus words in Matt/Mark.
Then - when I addressed this in a previous post - you say "But its all inspired". Even if this was the case - it is not the words of Jesus in Matt/Mark .. and why would we expect it to be .. this is irrational.
Then you further try to avoid the discussion of the words of Jesus - by asking me if I think Paul (all of the Bible is what you are suggesting) - all of it - is inspired.
Ok -but this is a different topic - did you want to discuss that topic .. OK - and now you have once again successfully avoided discussion of the the teachings of Jesus in the SOM.. running and hiding from "The Truth"
My response to your "all Paul Inspired" suggestion - that every word is the Literal Word of God - since you don't want to talk about that other topic that you are scared of .. was that this is simply not what the vast majority of Christianity believes.. and I am part of that majority.
You then finally address the Sermon on the mount .. finally .. congrats .. but what you say is abject nonsense .. and once again completely avoid addressing any of the teachings in Matt 5-7. .. all you do is cite "matt 5-7" and make the absurd and ridiculous statement relating to Grace .. a completely different topic yet than Sola Fide"
Why are you so desperate to avoid the teachings of Jesus - those which Jesus states are "The Will of The Father" ? by the Grace of God.
we were given - through the Holy Spirit - in Jesus Christ our Lord.
So yes .. Grace is there alright but, what does this have to do with "The Will of the Father" - as per the teachings of Jesus in this specific sermon.
Surely you now at least a few of these teachings do you not ? - as this is the only Sermon by Jesus devoted to answering the question at hand.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
oh wise one the suspense is killing all of us so
PLEASE tell all of us what the WILL of the Father is in Matthew 5-7
besides the OBVIOUS may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10
C'mon we can't wait any longer to hear your "secret knowledge" of the Fathers will that only you understand.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
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That was about the claim that the whole Bible is the Literal Word of God - Just one rather obvious example of a passage that was not inspired.
Clearly Paul is wanting to paint Christianity in a good light for the Romans .. and very smart of him to do so - at the time. Was a good political move.. Christianity may not be here without this move - think about this passage .. it basically states "Yes Caesar - you are God's appointed Servant"
But, Caesar Already knows this .. called "Pontifex Maximus" - which is why Christ ran afoul - or at least in a grey area .. with the Romans .. usurping the position of Caesar.
Paul affirms this position of Caesar .. and smartly so. This does not mean that we should take this passage as the literal word of God for all of the ages.. for obvious reasons.
but this is just one example .. would you like 50 others ? .. it is not for nothing that the Vast and Overwhelming Majority of Christianity - and the overwhelming consensus of Biblical Scholarship - does not view the entire Bible as the Literal word of God.
but sticking to Paul .. a bunch of the letters attributed to Paul - were not written by Paul .. some of these letters were not written until 140 AD-170AD ..
If you wish to put base the foundation of your belief - on the 2100-2300BC there was a global flood that wiped out all land creatures - and humans san's Noah and kin.. .. and if this is every proven wrong .. the whole structure collapses
Good Luck .. Jesus says to build your house on Rock ... The Rock of Good Deeds .. and not doing bad deeds
Thus sayeth the Lord 24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
Holy Carp . I thought it was Obvious .. but you clearly have no clue what Jesus is referring to .. or his mission here on earth .. the purpose of his coming ..
Everything Jesus says in his Sermon is "The Will of the Father" -- did you not now this ?
Judge Not, Do unto others, love neighbor as self, don't kill, don't steal, don't shag neighbors wife ..
or in other words .. "Works Works ...and more Works" - not a word about "Faith" being on the list .. other than Love God .. which is not the kind of "Faith" we are talking about .. not is it ..
Regardless .. its works .. works . and all works.. and there is no doubt about it .... not something that is debated in serious circles.
Did you seriously think there was not going to be a good argument coming from the majority of Christianity ?
Matt 7:12 is one of my favorite Passage in the Bible . Hits the point home on a number of levels.
The rule that "Sums up the Law and the Prophets" .. Wow .. now that is saying something .. That's the whole thing in one rule
and dat be da "Golden Rule" works works.. and more works .. not a scintilla of a hint of faith in that rule .. other than belief that this rule is from God - through the Holy Spirit - who resides in Jesus .. our Lord, Savior .. and Messiah.
Don't do to others what you Hate ? This is the will of the Father .. and now you understand what the Will of the Father is - you know the path into heaven ..
by the way .. just one last thing .. its not "those who believe the will of the Father" its those who "do" the will of the Father .. and this is stated 3 times - not once - one after the other .. as Jesus is Summarizing his Sermon.
Did you need him to do it 4 times ? .would that help ?
Since you have just come on board, I am not sure what you believe, but this statement above shows that you DO NOT believe that the Bible is literally "the Word of God". However, the vast majority of Christianity does believe this to be true. Which means that you are off to a bad start.
Even the Catholic Church -- which has huge numbers of adherents -- is very clear about the divine inspiration of Scripture (even though that church puts tradition on the same level). Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
II. Inspiration and Truth of Sacred Scripture
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71
As to so-called "biblical scholarship" it is really quite phony, since the so-called scholars have been attacking the Bible since the 19th century. Which means that they are minions of Satan.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Where does Jesus say
" the Fathers will " in Matthew 5-7.
lets see if you pass the test.
BTW your whole premise is a strawman regarding faith in matt 5-7. Its nothing but an argument from silence.
And if you are taking it literally the message was to His disciples, the 12.
So by your standards it doesn't apply to Gentiles, just Jews.
I can play your game..............
hope this helps !!!
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
if you still have 2 eyes you have violated the Father will according to your works salvation. Since you have lusted more than once so you should be blind without your eyes.
Does a tree prove it's a tree by its trunk and branches, or are they just what a tree is.
So a believer without works cannot be a believer because they are part of the whole. John tries to say in Christ we have and show His love, no love, no Christ within.
For some this denies their security so they reject the reality. But it is absurd as having a house and knocking out the walls, claiming it is still a house as it crumbles into a heap of rubble. But for folk who cannot connect their emotional lives to Christ and talk just of facts, nothing actually connects and killing ones enemy is not murder it's justice.
Fanatics make innocents guilty by not doing something so it is fine to hate them. Jesus emphasises judgement comes for action not position. Being a Jew or Christian means nothing, it's all about following and doing in God's power, love and cleansing.
"Be Holy because I am Holy" is His command to us. Amen
So there is no confusion - Catholic Doctrine no longer accepts every word in the Bible as the Literal Word of God.
From an article in the "Catholic Herald" in an article "Catholic Understanding of the Bible vs Literalism" - which is what I am talking about.
Catholic understanding of the Bible versus literalism | Catholic Star Herald
and you can find article after article in Catholic publications - Catholics are not literalists.
it says "The will of the Father" .. are you OK ? and you clearly don't know what a strawman is .. and when you accuse someone of building one .. you should say what it is so someone knows what you are talking about.
I have not argued from Silence .. How You are reeling because you can not deal with the Teachings of Jesus in the SOM .. works works.. and more works !!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
You miss the entire point on Matthew 5-7 as one cannot live up to it by religion/works but only by a new heart. Jesus goes straight to the issue, mans heart not by outward appearances. Keep reading His teachings as you are just like those he opposed in Matthew 23 who on the outside appear righteous but inside full of dead mans bones. Only with a new heart can one live by Matthew 5-7.
Once again your isolation from the rest of scripture is a strawman. An argument from silence.
But hey by all means you will be judged by how you judge others.
Matthew 7:2
"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
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