Adstar:
Brother I was following and rooting for you until you made this statement.
I did like how you defended Pharaoh though. Pharaoh did have a choice.............. His heart was already past recovery before God ever mentioned that He would harden Pharaoh's heart. All God did was send more of his power and ability which pharaoh was already hardened to. If you want someone that already has a stance against something, to get them even more abrasive just add more to the fire. Pharaoh was already long gone before God started all those plagues.
Now you said God predestines...........Now this is what we were coming against........... Like I said, you were doing great, but I think I understand..........
We have scriptures that God wishes to loose nobody, but ALL come to the knowledge to the truth, then we have to believe that God knows everything from every Atom. If we say he don't, we get strange looks. It sort of contradicts scripture.
What if, God knows what He spoken must and will come to pass? That the Word runs it's course regardless. When it comes to people though, he chooses not to know, or just does not know, but is pleased when people he created choose him.
I mean, we are told all of heaven rejoices that 1 sheep came back (Luke 17) and how did God treat that younger son when he came back home??. Notice God did not say.......... eh, I knew you were coming back anyway?
In fact we have lots and lots more evidence that God the father, Gave his word, and expects by faith for people to believe that Word. The ones that make it, do so. After all, we are created in his image and have his ability to make choices and have faith.
That would make a whole lot more sense, and take any blame from God away.
Now concerning his Word................His Word must come to pass. The bible points these places out............ the donkey waiting on Jesus, Judas blew it.......(It had to be someone so scripture could be fullfilled) look at Zackariah, the angel shut his mouth and He had John the baptist anyway. No doubt and unbelief could come out of his mouth, messing things up.
I see God as someone that believes in us. So much that He gave us Jesus. I see a faith God. by looking at scripture after scripture though, I don't see where God planed failure. He was always there to pick up the pieces though. I don't think he choose to know people from start to end. In fact, Jesus told a group the he knew them not, which means they were not even in God's radar. He searches the earth for hearts full of faith and perfect toward him.... Why he gotta search?
There are way to many scriptures in the way to just say God knows the outcome of everybody.
Just a thought Adstar!!!
Be blessed my brother, and thanks for handling Jiggyfly for me for awhile. Sometimes he catches me up, and I run out of scriptures.
Jesus Is Lord.
Nothing i have said removes the free will ability of man, to accept or reject the Will of God.
The Scriptures that reveal Gods foreknowledge not just of history in general but in the lives of people who have not yet existed cannot be ignored. Therefore coming to the understanding of Foreknowledge is the only way to accept both scriptures that declare God's predestination of all those who have existed and also our freedom to respond to His will either accepting or rejecting it.
God knew the eternal destiny of all men from the foundation of the World as revelations reveals.
Revelation 17
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel,
whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
And
Revelation 13
6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation.
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
We cannot simply ignore the many scriptures that show that God has foreknowledge of people and their eternal destiny. It is only through the understanding of Foreknowledge that Predestination and Free will can harmonized. Nor can scripture be ignored that declares that God can harden an individuals heart to continue in rejection of His will. Note the next scripture that is closely related to Revelation 13 verse i quoted above:
2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because
they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they
all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
So this scripture declares that God will send strong delusion upon those who have rejected the truth (The Gospel message of salvation) so that they will believe the lie (satans end time great deception) so that they will be condemned to Eternity in the lake of fire. So as God hardened Pharaoh and brought him to destruction so will God in the end times Bring those who reject the Love of the truth to a similar end.
The problem with calvanism is that i places the hardening of their hearts at the moment of their creation. But scriptures reveal that like Pharaoh the hardening of their heart does
Not come upon the point of creation but at the point of their rejection of the Will of God. Pharaoh rejected Gods will before God hardened his heart and likewise these people mentioned in the end times prophecy also first rejected the Love of the truth (Gods will) before God sends them strong delusion so that they will believe the end time deception of satan.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Oh and here is another classic scripture that clearly reveals that God has foreknowledge of us even before we are formed in the Womb. For God said to the young Jeremiah.
Jeremiah 1
4 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying:
5 “ Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”
God had foreknowedge of Jeremiah and had predestined him to be a Prophet to the nations.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days