Not faith alone?

[Michiah-Imla]

You can't work your way into Heaven, nor by preaching the Law of Moses.

You must work your way into heaven. What you cannot do is qualify for it without faith alone first.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

You must work your way into heaven. What you cannot do is qualify for it without faith alone first.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

There is no merit in the works that we do.

We are in fact born again through faith in Jesus alone.

The works that we do afterward are the result of that faith; but they do not save in and of themselves.

So you do not work your way into heaven. You are given everlasting life at the moment of first faith (John 5:24 (kjv)). Then you work because you love other people because having the love of the Lord shed abroad in your heart is a major aspect of salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

They are not in the house prior to faith. They stand outside the house. They have the key of faith; which they use to open the door of the house (Jesus Himself). They put the key in the keyhole, open the door, and walk into the house. Once they are in the house, they are standing in grace.



Consider the context in Hebrews 8:8-10. It says that the Lord writes the law in the heart and on the mind of the New Covenant believer in Christ.

So then, under the New Covenant, we obey the law (see also Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, Galatians 5:22-23).



Preaching the law does not place anyone under a curse. The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24) so that they might understand that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20) in order that their souls might be converted (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).



The devil often quotes half a verse in order to get his point across.

Here is the whole verse:

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.



It actually says, in the kjv,

"For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith..."

The nkjv is watered-down just a little...not as bad as some others; but still watered-down.



Amen. Whosoever is forgiven much, also loves much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

Yes they are born under grace and have a stand in grace before birth. They don't have access until given faith. Faith gives the comfortable apprehension of the grace they already stand. Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[kcnalp]

So you're trying to earn your own salvation, right?

Wrong. Real Christian Faith produces "good works".

 

[kcnalp]

No, you're confused. You're the one who thinks preaching the law of Moses can only mean saying the law of Moses is how one is made righteous before God.

I think I'm caught up on your posts. See you tomorrow.

I'll stick with the New Covenant in Jesus' Blood.
Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes they are born under grace and have a stand in grace before birth. They don't have access until given faith. Faith gives the comfortable apprehension of the grace they already stand. Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

That is from the perspective of predestination; from the perspective of God being outside of time (dwelling in eternity...Isaiah 57:15).

From the perspective of time, a man does not stand in grace unless he has faith first.

He has access into grace by faith...faith is the catalyst for his standing in grace....and therefore he cannot stand in grace apart from faith.

 

[brightfame52]

That is from the perspective of predestination; from the perspective of God being outside of time.

From the perspective of time, a man does not stand in grace unless he has faith first.

He has access into grace by faith...faith is the catalyst for his standing in grace....and therefore he cannot stand in grace apart from faith.

It's before God!

 

[kcnalp]

Consider the context in Hebrews 8:8-10. It says that the Lord writes the law in the heart and on the mind of the New Covenant believer in Christ.
So then, under the New Covenant, we obey the law (see also Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, Galatians 5:22-23).

Even executing those who work on weekends? That's not in my heart.

Preaching the law does not place anyone under a curse. The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24) so that they might understand that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20) in order that their souls might be converted (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

Galatians 3:24-25 (NKJV)
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The devil often quotes half a verse in order to get his point across.

See above.

Here is the whole verse:

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

It actually says, in the kjv,

"For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith..."

The nkjv is watered-down just a little...not as bad as some others; but still watered-down.

Amen. Whosoever is forgiven much, also loves much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

Are you preaching the Law of Moses to Christians?

 

[kcnalp]

You must work your way into heaven. What you cannot do is qualify for it without faith alone first.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Many Christians cannot "work their way into Heaven". Are they lost?

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you preaching the Law of Moses to Christians?

There are many Christians who have never been born again of the Holy Spirit (see Matthew 7:21-23)...so yes, I preach the law of Moses to Christians in order that they might become born again Christians.

 

[kcnalp]

There are many Christians who have never been born again of the Holy Spirit (see Matthew 7:21-23)...so yes, I preach the law of Moses to Christians in order that they might become born again Christians.

Why??? Our New Covenant is not sufficient to lead them to salvation? The Law of Moses was ONLY for Israel.
Psalm 147:19-20 (NKJV)
19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Many Christians cannot "work their way into Heaven". Are they lost?

Everyone can either choose to believe and have faith in Christ and endure to the end, or fall away, or never believe to begin with.

Believers will be tested to determine their worthiness to enter the kingdom of God.

“So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer”

And as the scripture says:

“The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy”.

We should be diligent in our faith to be counted worthy of Christ at all cost.

For the scripture also says:

“He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that does not take not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why??? Our New Covenant is not sufficient to lead them to salvation? The Law of Moses was ONLY for Israel.
Psalm 147:19-20 (NKJV)
19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them.

As Gentiles we were kept under the law before we had faith (Galatians 3:23) and it is also true that unbelieving Gentiles will be judged by the law and held guilty before God because of the law (Romans 3:19-20). The law declares them sinners (Romans 3:10-18) because Romans 3:10-18 speaks of all those who are under the law; and this applies to Gentiles as well as Jews.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24); showing men that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20); thus converting their souls (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)). It does this for Gentiles as well as Jews (Romans 3:9).

However, the church of God is exempt from being under the law (compare Romans 3:9 to 1 Corinthians 10:32, also co mpare Romans 3:19 to Romans 6:14); and therefore Romans 3:10-18 doesn't apply to the church.

Romans 3:23 has as its Greek verb tense for "come short" as the present passive indicative; and therefore we all presently come short of the glory of God: but only if we are not active in pursuing the righteousness of the Lord.

 

[kcnalp]

Everyone can either choose to believe and have faith in Christ and endure to the end, or fall away, or never believe to begin with.

Believers will be tested to determine their worthiness to enter the kingdom of God.

“So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer”

And as the scripture says:

“The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy”.

We should be diligent in our faith to be counted worthy of Christ at all cost.

For the scripture also says:

“He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that does not take not his cross, and follows after me, is not worthy of me.

Many Christians cannot "work their way into Heaven". Are they lost?

 

[kcnalp]

As Gentiles we were kept under the law before we had faith (Galatians 3:23) and it is also true that unbelieving Gentiles will be judged by the law and held guilty before God because of the law (Romans 3:19-20). The law declares them sinners (Romans 3:10-18) because Romans 3:10-18 speaks of all those who are under the law; and this applies to Gentiles as well as Jews.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24); showing men that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20); thus converting their souls (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)). It does this for Gentiles as well as Jews (Romans 3:9).

However, the church of God is exempt from being under the law (compare Romans 3:9 to 1 Corinthians 10:32, also co mpare Romans 3:19 to Romans 6:14); and therefore Romans 3:10-18 doesn't apply to the church.

Romans 3:23 has as its Greek verb tense for "come short" as the present passive indicative; and therefore we all presently come short of the glory of God: but only if we are not active in pursuing the righteousness of the Lord.

Gentiles have never been under the Law of Moses. ONLY Israel.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Many Christians cannot "work their way into Heaven". Are they lost?

Few can work their way into heaven after freely receiving the opportunity by grace through faith.

“Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able”.

Many will be lost in the end unfortunately because they chose the wide gate.

 

[kcnalp]

Nobody can "work" their way into Heaven. We are all sinners.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Nobody can "work" their way into Heaven. We are all sinners.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

The children of God are not sinners.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin... and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil.

 

[kcnalp]

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

The children of God are not sinners.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin... and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil.

You never sin?

 

[justbyfaith]

Gentiles have never been under the Law of Moses. ONLY Israel.

That seems to be a common misconception.

Keep reading...I have addressed this issue in other threads.