Not faith alone?

[BloodBought 1953]

You are right that God does not need to see our works to determine whether we go to left and into the fire or to the right and into the kingdom, but He will do that anyway. He said, "Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’".

So much for your theology that our works won't be used to decide which way we go. You're wondering right now how that can be since salvation is not earned by works, right? It's because born again people are the one's who have the works that prove they are born again. While those that aren't born again don't have them.

One MUST do the “ Works”——- no doubt about it! What is “ The Work?” “ Believe in the One He sent”
Concentrate on obeying the only two Commands that Jesus gave us, this side of the Cross.....Believe and Love.... everything else will take care of itself....what does not get taken care of is covered by Grace......that darned old “ greasy” Grace , as you like to call it...

Btw.....how many “ Strangers” have “ YOU” taken in to feed and clothe lately? Yeah....I thought so . You might want to go out and grab some of that “ Greasy Grace”. Some, less kind than me , might point out some “Hypocrisy” in your post....Thank God for His Grace! It covers “ hypocrisy” too !

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I showed you that Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." So he does care about the outside of the cup, contrary to what you claim. The making of the inside of the cup clean first that Jesus is talking about is getting born again (I would post the scriptures but you say you don't read them).

If you're still needing to clean the inside of the cup to make the outside clean you aren't born again yet. Or you don't realize that you already have what you need inside of you to make the outside clean. But you say you do know that. So why aren't you clean on the outside? And don't play the 'perfection' card. We all know this isn't about being perfectly sinless right off the bat. When you get born again "the Spirit of the LORD will rush upon you...and you will be transformed into a different person" 1 Samuel 10:6. I don't know how purposely living in your old sins is somehow being transformed into a different person. I can see how a struggle with your old sins is being transformed into a different person. But purposely doing your old sins—that's not a transformation by the Spirit of God in a born again experience. Whoever's teaching you this crap is lying to you and a lot of other people.

But purposely doing your old sins

When you start to listen to what I say in my posts....perhaps I will continue this debate. I keep telling you that Sinning to me is like sticking my hand in a fire.Acknowledge first that you “ get” that and ALL,that it might entail.....then we can proceed..thanks.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I showed you that Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." So he does care about the outside of the cup, contrary to what you claim. The making of the inside of the cup clean first that Jesus is talking about is getting born again (I would post the scriptures but you say you don't read them).

If you're still needing to clean the inside of the cup to make the outside clean you aren't born again yet. Or you don't realize that you already have what you need inside of you to make the outside clean. But you say you do know that. So why aren't you clean on the outside? And don't play the 'perfection' card. We all know this isn't about being perfectly sinless right off the bat. When you get born again "the Spirit of the LORD will rush upon you...and you will be transformed into a different person" 1 Samuel 10:6. I don't know how purposely living in your old sins is somehow being transformed into a different person. I can see how a struggle with your old sins is being transformed into a different person. But purposely doing your old sins—that's not a transformation by the Spirit of God in a born again experience. Whoever's teaching you this crap is lying to you and a lot of other people.

in (I would post the scriptures but you say you don't read them).

More misrepresentation—— I said I don’t read Scripture “ WALLS” ....and I don’t......just provide two or three verses, please .... I already KNOW my Bible and I don’t need anybody to provide 5O verses that NOBODY is going to read to try to prove their point.....thanks

 

[Ferris Bueller]

One MUST do the “ Works”——- no doubt about it! What is “ The Work?” “ Believe in the One He sent”
Concentrate on obeying the only two Commands that Jesus gave us, this side of the Cross.....Believe and Love.... everything else will take care of itself....what does not get taken care of is covered by Grace......that darned old “ greasy” Grace , as you like to call it...

Don't evade the point. Show me in Matthew 25:31-46 where greasy grace gets the 'believer' with no works into the kingdom of God.

Btw.....how many “ Strangers” have “ YOU” taken in to feed and clothe lately? Yeah....I thought so .

You thought what? That I am like you?

You might want to go out and grab some of that “ Greasy Grace”. Some, less kind than me , might point out some “Hypocrisy” in your post..

And what hypocrisy would that be? Be specific. Make sure your judgement of me is accurate and based on facts, not something you just think is so.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But purposely doing your old sins

When you start to listen to what I say in my posts....perhaps I will continue this debate. I keep telling you that Sinning to me is like sticking my hand in a fire.Acknowledge first that you “ get” that and ALL,that it might entail.....then we can proceed..thanks.

Haven't you been saying that a 'believer' can purposely sin and he will be saved when Jesus comes back? It's the heart that counts. Isn't that what you've been saying?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I showed you that Jesus said, "You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." So he does care about the outside of the cup, contrary to what you claim. The making of the inside of the cup clean first that Jesus is talking about is getting born again (I would post the scriptures but you say you don't read them).

If you're still needing to clean the inside of the cup to make the outside clean you aren't born again yet. Or you don't realize that you already have what you need inside of you to make the outside clean. But you say you do know that. So why aren't you clean on the outside? And don't play the 'perfection' card. We all know this isn't about being perfectly sinless right off the bat. When you get born again "the Spirit of the LORD will rush upon you...and you will be transformed into a different person" 1 Samuel 10:6. I don't know how purposely living in your old sins is somehow being transformed into a different person. I can see how a struggle with your old sins is being transformed into a different person. But purposely doing your old sins—that's not a transformation by the Spirit of God in a born again experience. Whoever's teaching you this crap is lying to you and a lot of other people.

I don’t know where to begin....so I won’t....Maybe later .....you are one confused fellow.....I changed my mind ....I will respond to some if your confused thinking —- for the sake of Newbies in the audience....
You are “ Born Again” the very nano- second you Believe Jesus was the who He said He was—- God’s Son and “ your” Savior “...... He that “ died for your sins and rose from the grave.” Simple as that.Simply believe Paul’s Gospel Found In 1 cor15:1-4 and you are “ Born Again”....
Once you are Born again ,God will put His Holy Spirit in you and will Transform you into the Image Of His Son.....That Transformation is called Sanctification — a PROCESS of changing you from the inside out— that is what is referred to as “ cleaning the inside of the cup”—— NOT BEING “ Born again”. Being literally “ Born from above” is what sets everything in motion.....God Works AFTER that to change your Wants and Desires

Your quotation from Samuel has Nothing to do with ANY of this ...I don’t know why you added it ...you got a hodge podge of mixed up religious Mush going on...very disjointed and very nonsensical ...who on EARTH taught you this stuff? Equating being “ Born Again” with “ cleaning up the cup” is silliness .... one sets in Motion the other one....they are NOT the same thing...

You mention not being Sinless “right off the bat?” So you Believe we can become “ Sinless” in these flesh bodies here on Earth—- it just takes a while, right? Funny...Paul said before he died that he had not made it to the point that he felt he should have ....he had not “ arrived”, but yet “ you” have. Sure you have......

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He also DIDN’T say , “ MUST turn away or wind up in Hell” .......It could have been meant this way.....”You MUST turn from Wickedness or face the Discipline Of The Church..... You will be kicked out of the Assembly Of your Brethern and thereby by Handed Over to Satan—- Chastised Severely here on Earth Temporarily so that God will not have to Punish you Eternally with UNbelievers—- Believers in the Gospel get Saved —- it’s a Promise Of God...

But I showed you in 1 Corinthians 5:5 that the sinner in the church does have to crucify the flesh in order for him to be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I know it drives Legalists batty, But The FACT is , “ Where Sin abounds,Grace abounds that much more”. Of course , if one is under the delusion that they have “ conquered” sin , they don’t want to hear about the Grace that ALL Believers need ...

This has nothing to do with being a legalist, or being a perfectionist. Those are your talking points to evade the point. You said the believer can purposely sin and not live for Jesus and have no good works and he will be saved when Jesus comes back. So address the point. Don't talk about legalism and perfectionism to evade the point. Address your claim directly. I can't tell if you are back peddling on your claim or talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You mention not being Sinless “right off the bat?” So you Believe we can become “ Sinless” in these flesh bodies here on Earth—- it just takes a while, right?

I think so. Peter said, "whoever suffers in the body is done with sin." Just because I'm not going to be one of those doesn't mean others won't be. I'm not going to project my experience onto others. I just know Paul said God's grace "teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives". You say it was given to us so we can say yes to ungodliness if we want...and still be saved. That's called greasy grace. That's called making grace a license to sin. Grace is not a license to sin. You say it is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your quotation from Samuel has Nothing to do with ANY of this ...I don’t know why you added it ...you got a hodge podge of mixed up religious Mush going on...very disjointed and very nonsensical ...who on EARTH taught you this stuff? Equating being “ Born Again” with “ cleaning up the cup” is silliness .... one sets in Motion the other one....they are NOT the same thing...

You get clean on the inside when you get born again. You become a different person—a new creation—when you get born again (that's why it's called being 'born again'). You disagree with that? Amazing. I thought that was Christianity 101 that we all agreed on.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yep! It was willful, deliberate sin. And notice that the passage tells us he couldn't continue to do that and be saved when Jesus comes back. It was necessary that he stop in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. How did you miss that part?

I missed it because it ain’t there.....show me where it says “ he couldn’t be Saved”

I didn't say "he couldn't be saved". I said he had to respond to the discipline of the church to be saved. He wasn't going to be saved when Jesus came back no matter what as the corrupt church teaches us. The discipline required to crucify his flesh was administered so he 'might', or 'may', be saved when Jesus comes back. This had to be done in the hope that he would crucify his fleshly behavior and so be saved when Jesus comes back—1 Corinthians 5:5.

Does this mean a believer can lose his salvation? Or does this mean he wasn't really saved to begin with? I don't know. And it doesn't matter because he's dead meat either way. In either case Paul says he can't be saved when Jesus comes back unless he is subjected to this discipline and is brought to repentance by it. The church needs to focus on that truth instead of on whether or not he was really a believer or not. Believer, or not...it doesn't matter which is actually the case. The point is you can't sin willfully and expect to be saved when Jesus comes back. It's right there in 1 Corinthians 5. That passage shows us you can not use grace as a license to sin and still be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If I were drowning and somebody threw me a life preserver, would you think that I was “ taking advantage” of it If I reached out for it . I doubt it . I have no desire to sin— it hurts me and it hurts others.....but I do Sin and so do you

Using your analogy you take advantage of the life preserver when you think you can purposely jump back into the water because you think it will always be thrown out to you again and again. When you do that with God's grace that's called abusing the grace of God. You're insulting the Spirit of grace and trampling on Christ's sacrifice. Do only unbelievers do that? What does it matter? What matters is the penalty for doing that is eternal damnation.

I have not built a Lifestyle based upon Sinning ( I hate it ) and then using God’s Grace as License to “ get away with it”

Whether you yourself use grace as a license to sin is not the point. You said you can do that if you want. When you say you can purposely sin all you want and you will remain in God's grace no matter what that's saying God's grace is a license to sin. If that isn't making God's grace a license to sin, what is? How is making grace a license to sin different than what you're saying?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

November here in Southern Ohio....temperatures approaching 80.....practically unheard of......God has “ revealed “ to me that a Harley Ride is in order.....I will return to do battle with my “ Worthy Foes” when the sun goes down ( it gets cold fast after that!)...... lol....God bless you all—- friend “ and “ Foe.....Vrooooooooommmm......

 

[justbyfaith]

He also DIDN’T say , “ MUST turn away or wind up in Hell” .......It could have been meant this way.....”You MUST turn from Wickedness or face the Discipline Of The Church..... You will be kicked out of the Assembly Of your Brethern and thereby by Handed Over to Satan—- Chastised Severely here on Earth Temporarily so that God will not have to Punish you Eternally with UNbelievers—- Believers in the Gospel get Saved —- it’s a Promise Of God...

Therefore believers are not "workers of iniquity" (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would say that if your definition is correct, every unbeliever is a worker of iniquity and every worker of iniquity is an unbeliever (see Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

YOu can say what you wish, but once again your understanding of the context of the word iniquity here is what is very lacking. Once again- it is a word used especially for unbelievers in these two verses.

 

[justbyfaith]

YOu can say what you wish, but once again your understanding of the context of the word iniquity here is what is very lacking. Once again- it is a word used especially for unbelievers in these two verses.

A worker of iniquity is someone who commits sin...that is the straightforward definition of the word...

I will allow for some leeway for those who have not yet obtained the second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15) spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, and Colossians 2:11 (nlt)....and I will say that a worker of iniquity is someone who "practices" sin...as that is the watered-down version that is more palatable to the itching ear.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You get clean on the inside when you get born again. You become a different person—a new creation—when you get born again (that's why it's called being 'born again'). You disagree with that? Amazing. I thought that was Christianity 101 that we all agreed on.

Let me go beyond “ Christianity 101”...... May I just go ahead and reveal the Entire Course ? Total Christianity in a Nutshell ( with thanks to the Great Bible Teacher, Zola Levitt ) “ You are DIRTY...you can’t go to Heaven “ Dirty”.....Only Jesus can cleanse you.....Ask Him to “ Cleanse” you....He Will.....” Only “ HE “ can make you Fit For Heaven....Trust in Him alone and He will....” Everything else is “ window dressing” to a large extent. “ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved Will be Saved”
I hope those new to the Faith will always remember that verse.... Romans 10:3....The ONUS for Salvation is squarely upon “God's” Shoulders ....Two Things and Two Things ONLY Save us.....Christ’s Blood and OUR Faith.....YOU supply the FAITH— HE supplies the rest.....God Bless...

 

[justbyfaith]

YOU supply the FAITH—

Actually, the Lord supplies the faith through preaching (Romans 10:17).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I was talking about the corruption of God's grace being taught in the church. People call it greasy grace and some other names too.


God's grace—God's grace is not a license to sin.

Greasy grace—God's grace is a license to sin.

Put up or shut up time —- who is preaching that “ Grace” is a “ License to Sin?” Not me .Nor Anybody that I have ever listened to....
Grace is what Covers the Sins Of the Believer until he makes it “ home”......God had to provide that Grace to us Saved Believers , because Without it, NOBODY would make it to Heaven...Some confused people think that Repentance is the Way....Nope. People are not even “ aware” of all of their daily sins, much less have the memory to confess them all . I can have a lustful thought and forget about it when I say my nightly prayers, and if I die in my sleep....I am covered for that sin. That is Grace.Sorry if you can’t handle that....The Truth is , Before you closed your eyes and went to sleep there were dozens if not hundreds of sins that you completely forgot about ....you had best get on your knees and Praise God that He extends that Grace....Without it, Everything is hopeless....


Grace Grace is what “ Super Abounds” whenever Sin abounds ( God's Promise— NOT mine) God has given every person “ free will” ....Freedom is so vitally important to God that He risked Sin entering the universe to provide it.The only thing worse than a World where Sin exists is one in which everybody is a Robot....
Everybody has the Freedom to Sin.....everybody has the freedom to try to take Grace and use it as a “ license to Sin” . As Paul said, those who think this way are heading for a Damnation That is well- deserved.Its like Paul Stanley says.....” if you think you can abuse Gods Grace, Thinking you can ‘Sin and get away with it —- go ahead ! Try it ! See how that works out for you!” You are Thinking as a Fool and if you a Child Of God you are the King Of Fools If you think you are going to “ get away” with your sins.....Grace is never a “ permission slip “ to Sin but one is free to think it is, they are free to give it a whirl and God is free to set their britches on Fire......and He WILL if you are “ HIS”—— if you are NOT His Child , well, you got bigger problems than can be addressed in this post
Here’s the Deal..... I am a Sinner .....a Saved Sinner because I Rest in Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 and thats all there is to That .Trusting in the Grace Of God—-“ BOLDLY approaching that Throne Of Grace” for the Restoration Of “ Fellowship” ( NOT Salvation) in Times Of Need , Yes, TRUSTING in and Seizing that Grace That God, in His unbelievable Mercy provided for Believers that “ Stumble” , is NOT the same thing as “ taking” that Grace as a “ License to Sin” ...... As I keep trying to tell those who lack understanding in regard to Spiritual Matters, Sinning to me is as pleasurable as taking a razor blade and slicing off my lips . Now I ask you—- why would I desire a “ License” to do that ? May God bless us ALL in the understanding of these things.....

 

[aspen]

Loving others through Christ, whom you love is the road to citizenship in Heaven - do not get sidetracked by spending too much time studying how others love, how we are supposed to love, how others are failing to love - get to it!