Mattathias
Member
I don’t know either but, if Catholic Answers is practicing witchcraft and passing it off to unwary readers as the teaching of the Church, it would be reasonable (and responsible) for the Church to have taken action against them.
Mother of Jesus?
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I don’t know either but, if Catholic Answers is practicing witchcraft and passing it off to unwary readers as the teaching of the Church, it would be reasonable (and responsible) for the Church to have taken action against them.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
I disagree Mary is the mother of our salvation. Our salvation is by the grace of God who was Emmanuel, "God with us", Jesus the Christ. Mary was the blessed highly favored woman through which God worked his will. To deliver himself into the world and bring the good news to the world.
This isn't an argument. I believe you should live as you believe. As do I.
No I agree no need to argued, but the Bible says she is the mother of God Lk 1:43
and that she found our salvation that Adam lost Lk 1:30 the grace of salvation refer back to gen 3:15
She consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
is ever Virgin matt 1:21 Is 7:14
and that she found our salvation that Adam lost Lk 1:30 the grace of salvation refer back to gen 3:15
She consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
is ever Virgin matt 1:21 Is 7:14
MattMooradian
Well-Known Member
Jesus' Mother and Brothers Mark 3:32-33
…32and a crowd was sitting around Him. “Look,” He was told, “Your mother and brothers are outside, asking for You.” 33But Jesus replied, “Who are My mother and My brothers? 34Looking at those seated in a circle around Him, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!…
Unlike the preachers we see on TV and in churches who bring their family to stand on stage with them, Jesus opposed such practice. This is an example of Jesus ignoring his biological mother (as well as his biological brothers and biological sisters). Would Jesus have ignored the "Mother of God" if she were something special? Jesus did not ignore John the Baptist (his cousin), but He did not give His mother any special recognition.
On the other hand, we have all been blessed because she gave birth to the messiah.
…32and a crowd was sitting around Him. “Look,” He was told, “Your mother and brothers are outside, asking for You.” 33But Jesus replied, “Who are My mother and My brothers? 34Looking at those seated in a circle around Him, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers!…
Unlike the preachers we see on TV and in churches who bring their family to stand on stage with them, Jesus opposed such practice. This is an example of Jesus ignoring his biological mother (as well as his biological brothers and biological sisters). Would Jesus have ignored the "Mother of God" if she were something special? Jesus did not ignore John the Baptist (his cousin), but He did not give His mother any special recognition.
On the other hand, we have all been blessed because she gave birth to the messiah.
101G
Well-Known Member
did Mary birth you or the "Spirit?" in our NEW BIRTH.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
101G
Well-Known Member
@BreadOfLife , and @MattMooradian.
did Mary Give birth to a spirit? yes or no.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
did Mary Give birth to a spirit? yes or no.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
On the other hand, we have all been blessed because she gave birth to the messiah.
why does the angel say she is blessed before she became his mother Lk 1:28-30 and found favor with God (the grace lost by Adam) and the Lord is with Her
as to Jesus no! He is glorifying her, no one did the will of the father more than Mary Lk 1:45
mother of God Lk 1:43
Mother not source mother of the son who is God Lk 1:35
mother of our salvation
Two reasons why Mary is the mother of our salvation!
1: Because Jesus Christ is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother!
2: Because she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Mary is a perpetual virgin! Jesus does not have brothers and sisters
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
why does the angel say she is blessed before she became his mother Lk 1:28-30 and found favor with God (the grace lost by Adam) and the Lord is with Her
as to Jesus no! He is glorifying her, no one did the will of the father more than Mary Lk 1:45
mother of God Lk 1:43
Mother not source mother of the son who is God Lk 1:35
mother of our salvation
Two reasons why Mary is the mother of our salvation!
1: Because Jesus Christ is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother!
2: Because she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Mary is a perpetual virgin! Jesus does not have brothers and sisters
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
Advertising
For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!
Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.
Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!
As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!
Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
101G
Well-Known Member
and we IN him, so was it Jesus who birthed us or the Spirit?
this before the fall into sin.
ERROR we have a Spiritual Father....... no need for a mother.
ERROR, the woman is symbolic of the Church. which is "HIS", HIS, HIS, body
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
This is Bible twisting at it's worst. Jesus was elevating those who do the will of God to Mary's level, He was not bringing her down to our level in any way. He was using her as a model of faith, otherwise you have to argue that Mary did not do the will of God, which is absurd. Jesus would not be honoring His mother by putting her down in public the way you have it, that would make Jesus a sinner by violating the commandments, which is more absurd. It's not the "gotcha" verse you think it is.
Mary does not compete with God, but declares His glory, as the "masterpiece" of His creation, just as praise of a masterpiece of art is praise of the painter or sculptor or composer (Catholics don't view veneration of saints and worship of God as identical, and don't espouse an "either/or" or zero sum game notion: viz., that veneration of saints somehow detracts from or contradicts the worship of God, and His unique glory and majesty).
Jesus took this opportunity to show that He regarded all of His followers (in what would become the Christian Church) as family. Similarly, He told His disciples, “I have called you friends” (Jn 15:15). It doesn’t follow that this is “a rebuff of this kin” (i.e., his immediate family). He simply moved from literal talk of families to a larger conception and vision of families as those who do “the will of God.” Thus, Jesus habitually used “brethren” to describe those who were not His immediate family:
Matthew 5:47
Matthew 23:8
Matthew 25:40
Matthew 28:10
Luke 22:32
John 20:17
We see that “brethren” is used 191 times in the New Testament, mostly in this sense. So is “brother” (116 times in the New Testament).
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101G
Well-Known Member
Correct,
Luke 1:46 "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,"
Luke 1:47 "And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour."
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
It is spiritual birth, just as Mary and the HS together brought forth the savior, do Mary and the HS With the help of the apostles
Gal 4:19
rev 12:17 she enables her children to keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus and to over come the devil by the blood of the savior
101G
Well-Known Member
so once more I ask you did Mary bring forth/Birth flesh and blood, or did she bring forth/birth a spirit also. yes or no
your answer yes or no....
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
By this reasoning, Jesus didn't need a mother.
“To speak of Mary is to speak of the Church. The two are united in one fundamental vocation – maternity . . .
“Everything that Mary was and experienced, the Church is and should experience, except for what is bound up with Mary’s unique vocation in the incarnation of the Son of God . . .
“In the book of Revelation our vision is directed to the double symbol of the Temple and the Woman, the dwelling-place of God our Saviour: `Then God’s temple in heaven was opened and the ark of the covenant was seen within his temple . . . and a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun . . .’ (Rev 11:19 – 12:1).
“Thus from the prophetic vision of the people of God awaiting the Messiah under the form of the Daughter of Zion and the Woman and the Tabernacle, up to the final vision of the Temple with the Ark and the Woman clothed with the Sun, it is the same symbolism which one encounters. Mary, on the occasion of the Incarnation, thus gathers up in herself the whole people of Israel in their expectation and symbolizes in herself the whole mystery of the Church in its fulfillment . . .
“Mary is . . . the first Christian woman, the Mother of believers, in the sense that Abraham is called the Father of believers. Abraham inaugurated the old covenant by an act of faith which recalls that of Mary at the dawn of the New Testament. God promises Abraham a posterity when he is old and his wife is sterile [Gen 15:6; Rom 4:18-21] . . . Abraham was for Israel the example of faith par excellence . . . God who had reconciled sterility and motherhood in Sarah and now in Elizabeth, can reconcile in Mary both virginity and motherhood . . .
“This Woman of the Revelation . . . appears as the realization of the messianic hope already foreseen in Genesis; it is the fulfillment of the promise of Victory made to Eve, Woman, the mother of the living, whose offspring `will bruise the serpent’s head.’ This Woman symbolizes Israel, the people of God . . . She symbolizes also the Church which one day will be totally victorious over the powers of evil . . .” (Thurian, ibid., 9-10, 51-52, 61-62, 179)
There is also a fascinating type in the Old Testament of which Mary, again, appears to be the fulfillment: the “Daughter of Zion”, who is the personification of Israel (the Church is the “new Israel”). The following verses are a representative sample of this typology:
Lamentations 1:15*, 2:13; Isaiah 62:5*, 62:11; Jeremiah 4:31; Micah 4:10; Zechariah 2:10, 9:9; Zephaniah 3:14; cf. Revelation 21:2-3). {* – described as a “virgin”}
In Zeph 3:14 and Zech 9:9, the Greek word chaire (“hail”) appears in the Septuagint – the same word as that in Luke 1:28 (“Hail, full of grace . . .”). Chaire is used in prophecies regarding the messianic deliverance of the Jews. This parallelism is seen also in a verse-by-verse comparison of Zeph 3:14-17 with Luke 1:28-31.
Reflections on the Spiritual Motherhood & Mediation of Mary | Dave Armstrong (patheos.com)
Explaining Mariology to anti-Mary Christians would not be so difficult if they weren't so blind to the Old Testament.
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Mother of the biological Jesus
Jesus is God and therefore uncreated and eternal
But he is God and she is his mother so she is mother of God Lk 1:43
101G
Well-Known Member
ERROR, the church was built, which is Spiritual, Mary is phyical. so that want fly.
Another ERROR, Acts 11:26 "And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
we can discuss the woman later,
but since we cannot get an answer to the Mary, birthing a spirit question, lets put that lie to rest, God is a Spirit, and the Lord Jesus is the Diversified "spirit" of God who came in flesh, lets see why all "spirit" that are in flesh bodies come from.. answer, Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"
the spirit is NOT birthed, by any woman, and when we die the "spirit" returns to the one who gives it. scripture, Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." bingo.
so Jesus is not birthed, but the body that he came in was birthed. again, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
so Mary is not the biological Mother of the Lord Jesus, but only his surrogget Mother of the flesh he came in. for no woman can birth a "spirit", bonly flesh and blood. now to be a biological Mother, she must have a biological husdand of her own to produce a body of them both. which means that the child is a PARTAKER of flesh and blood form his parents.
well in our Lord's case, he had neither mother nor father biologically. so that Mother of God is a MOTHER of all LIES.
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
BreadOfLife
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- Jan 2, 2017
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Mary gave birth to a PERSON - not a meat puppet.
A person has BOTH a body and a spirit.
Your ignorance is astounding . . .
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
What does this mean?
Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Luk 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
thank you
Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Luk 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
thank you
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