Was Pope John Paul II wrong to kiss the Koran?

[kcnalp]

What I posted is linguistically accurate - and taken from Strong's Greek Concordance and Lexicon.
THEY are the Greek Scholars . . .

Then why isn't "Catholic" in the Bible? Before you cite the Greek tell us your credentials for rewriting our Christian Bibles.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Oh, I think 'asinine' is incorrect, and quite understating the reality of things.

Romanism
&
Islamism

Romanism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Latin
Islamism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Arabic

Romanism - Main Country is Italy, a Peninsula facing to the West
Islamism - Main Country is Arabia, a Peninsula facing to the East

Romanism - Sunday worship, first day of the week - Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment
Islamism - Friday worship, sixth day of the week - Al Jumu'ah 62:9-10

[JEHOVAH's is the Holy 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD Jesus, Exodus 20:8-11 KJB]

Romanism - Sun/moon monstrance in which the 'eucharist/host' is kept
Islamism - Moon/Sun/or star symbol

Romanism - 8 pointed star being a symbol of RC 'Mary'
Islamism - 8 pointed star in Islam

Romanism - Jerome's corrupted Vulgate [corrupted the true vulgate, the Italic], corrupted Sinaiticus, Vaticanus
Islamism - Abu al Qasim's corrupted qur'an [corrupted with gnostic, talmudic, sources, etc]

Romanism - Creeds, so-called 'church fathers', papal bulls, encyclicals, briefs, etc.
Islamism - aHadiths, Sunnah, Tafsirs, Sharia [Islamic laws]

Romanism - [Roman] Canon Law [natural law]
Islamism - Sharia [Islamic law]

[JEHOVAH's Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:1-17 KJB]

Romanism - a combined Religion/State power
Islamism - a combined State/Religion power

[the state and church are to be in their respective spheres, see Romans 13]

Romanism - RC 'Mary' highly exalted to co-Mediatrix, hyper-dulia, etc and Immaculate conception dogma
Islamism - Islamic 'Mary', see qur'an Maryam 19, and aHadith in which 'Mary' is 'not touched by satan'

Romanism - gnostic connections, Shepherd of Hermas, Thomasine, Judasine, etc
Islamism - gnostic connections, Barnabas, etc. baby 'Isa' speaks from under the womb, and cradle, and makes clay birds come to life, etc

Romanism - continuing 'Mass', the unbloody sacrifice
Islamism - continuing bloody animal sacrifices

Romanism - no victory over sin, the Auricular confessional, penances, etc [works salvation, fasting, rosaries, etc]
Islamism - no victory over sin, works salvation, the as-salat, wudu, fasting, pilgrimaages, etc

Romanism - War - Crusades, Inquisition - aka Office/Curia of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Islamism - War - Jihad, a qur'an Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5,29, etc

Romanism - Vatican, Ultramontanism, all power in one man, popery
Islamism - Caliphate, all power in one man, Mahdi, etc. a qur'an Al Nisa' 4:65, Al Ahzab 33:36

Romanism - Pope's sayings, councils sayings, traditions of men
Islamism - Muhammad's sayings [aHadith], traditions of men

Romanism - another Intercessor, RC 'Mary', the co-Mediatrix, co-Redemptrix, Popes, Priests, 'Saints', etc
Islamism - Abu al Qasim

Romanism - Important women, RC 'Mary', 'Fatima' [city, so-called miracle site]
Islamism - Important women, Islamic 'Mary', Maraym 19, Fatimah the daughter of Abu al Qasim [Muhammad]

Romanism - monkery, monasticism, etc
Islamism - Khadija, Waraq bin Naufal, Nestor [Baeira, Pakhyras, Sergius the monk] see Hayatu'l-Qulub' by Abu Talib, or Al-Asbahani, Dala'il al-Nubuwah 1:173, or see the Jami' al-Tawarikh by Rashid al-Din Hamadani published in Tabriz, Persia, or see Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi, or Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, or even just plain old Yusuf Ali notations on Baeira.

Romanism - Pilgrimmages to Fatima, Lourdes, Vatican, Guadalupe, etc
Islamism - Pilgrimmages, the greater and lesser hajj to Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Ka'bam, etc.

Romanism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult
Islamism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult

Romanism - purgatory, limbo, etc
Islamism - Barzakh, a waiting place on the other side of the as-sirat bridge, until judgment day

Romanism - Eternal torments in hellfire/lake of fire, a never-ending, always increasing torment
Islamism - Eternal torments [especially for women, as they are the ones to fill hell mostly] in a hellfire/lake of fire, always increasing, never-ending, in Islam there are 7 levels of Hell [Jahannam; Jahim, Jahannam, Sa'ir, Saqar, Ladha, Hawiyah, Hutamah]

[Bible [KJB] teaches 2nd death, oblivion, dead and gone forever, no life, burnt up into smoke and ashes in the flames on earth before being made new, see Revelation 20, etc]

Romanism - Nuns/Habits/Monks/Cloistered
Islamism - Hijab, Burkha, women cannot work, must stay in the house in a single room [a few exceptions], etc.

Romanism - special exorcists
Islamism - special exorcists, called the ruqyah; al-Tibb al-Nabawi

Romanism - beads, 'the Rosary', the vain repetitious prayers, also monk chants, breath prayers, desert 'fathers' mysticism, etc, to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan:

"...as though they were listening to the very voice of the Blessed Mother explaining the mysteries and conversing with them at length..." [ON THE ROSARY; MAGNAE DEI MATRIS; Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1892.]​

Islamism - beads, the Misbah, Tasbih, Sibha, having the same effect to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan

Romanism - Cantor, Intonation, Gregorian Chants
Islamism - Muslim chants, qur'anic intonation [which means recitation]

Romanism - Visionaries - Ignatius Loyola, etc [in a Cave]
Islamism - Visionaries - Abu al Qasim [in a Cave, Hira]

Romanism - private killer assassins, political rebellion creators, the Jesuits, Dominicans, Opus Dei, etc
Islamism - Hashashins [assassins]

Romanism - Religious Calendar - Lent, Easter, etc, etc.
Islamism - Religious Calendar - Ramadan, etc, etc.

Romanism - pagan practices accepted or taken over and 'baptized', all-saints day, equinoxes, etc
Islamism - pagan practices, circling the Ka'baa, throwing stones at the shaytan, etc.

Romanism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances [Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14; Acts 15; 1 Timothy 4:3 KJB]
Islamism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances, under Abu al Qasim's Halal and Haram [and Makrooh]

Romanism - etc. add your own
Islamism - etc. add your own

The two are mirrored of each other, a yin and yang, a so-called 'light' and 'dark', both in great error, yet the one [Islam] came out of the other, an attempt at an early eccumenical [Mecci] endeavor, that failed [Medini].

I think I owe @TLHKAJ an apology.
YOUR rant is just about as stupid and ignorant . . .

In fact - it's so idiotic - it's difficult to know where to begin. I guess I'll just start by destroying your false moniker of "Romanism".
There is NO such thing as "Romanism". There is only the "Catholic Church" - which is what I think you were trying to get at. From there - your post just tumbles further downhill . . .

A few of the more idiotic highlights are . . .
Your objection to “pilgrimages” as being exclusively Catholic or Islamic is REALLY stupid.

Protestants engage in similar pilgrimages to Reformation sites like the Cathedral at Wittenberg, Geneva, the home of John Calvin, Martin Luther’s home, etc.

Your objection to prayerful intercessors is not only STUPID – it’s ANTI-BIBLICAL. We are ALL called to be intercessors for one another (James 5:16).

Your objection to the Church’s teaching on the dead as having eternal souls is the SAME teaching throughout Protestantism.

Your objection to Cantors is mind-bogglingly stupid as there are Cantors within Judaism as well as Protestantism.

Your ASININE statement that the Catholic Church claims Jerusalem for the Church is absolute manure.

Finally – your moronic assertion that the Church has “private killer assassins” reads like a bad Jack Chick tract or a chapter straight out of the fictional work, The Da Vinci Code – which has been debunked more times than Bigfoot . . .

Do your HOMEWORK, son . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Let's consider this 'asinine' (sic) historical material that links Rome to Islam:

The Catholic connection - Khadija d. Khuwaylid [first wife of Abu al Qasim [Muhammad / Ahmed] and [her cousin] Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza [a catholic]:

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3 -

“... Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food likewise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, “I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, “Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones.” Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, “Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?” Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, “This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” Allah's Apostle asked, “Will they drive me out?” Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, “Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet “While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira' sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, 'Wrap me (in blankets).' And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran): 'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly.” ...”​

That wasn't the original claim, Einstein.
And moving the goalposts when you can't prove your point doesn't bolster your argument, either.

The claim was made that the Catholic Church and Islam had "JESUIT ROOTS".
This is not only anti-Historical - it's woefully-ignorant and incredibly stupid.

Knock yourself out trying to prove that.
But you're going to need a time machine . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

How long have you been a Greek expert?

Are you asking me a serious question - or are you just playing dumb?
I already told you that Strong's Greek Concordance and Lexicon was the source.

Which part of that statement are you having difficulty with??

 

[ReChoired]

What I posted is linguistically accurate - and taken from Strong's Greek Concordance and Lexicon.
THEY are the Greek Scholars . . .

Strong (as in James Strong) was not a "Greek scholar":

"... James Strong was NOT a Linguist that understood Biblical Languages

Though James Strong was a professor, he was NOT a professor in Greek or Hebrew, and was not fluent in these languages, he received nothing but a summary introduction education in these languages. And his credentials as a Doctorate of theology are only honorary; even though he became a professor of Biblical Literature and Exegetical Theology at Troy University and Drew theological seminary in New York.

It appears that his highest earned degree was a Masters (Not in biblical languages, but generic in theology), wherein he was the valedictorian of his graduating class. He was given (Not earned) three honors doctorates (Dr. of Divinity, Dr. of sacred theology, and Dr. of laws) degrees (not based upon academia, studies; meaning they were NOT earned), because of his reputation as a professor and his writings; none concerning biblical language. ..." - The Problem of Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary ~ Greek Words ~ Word Studies ~ and Greek Dictionaries​

Moreover, James Strong was a 'liberal' (as they called him).

See:

"... The Dictionary o f Heresy Trials in American History was written with the collaboration of historians from the Universities of Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, and Duke, as well as the University of Chicago, the University of Maryland, the University of California, the University of Pennsylvania, and other well-respected universities. ..." - Hazardous Materials; page 33 (PDF 35) - https://archive.org/download/book-bible-gail-riplinger-hazardous-materials/Book - Bible - Gail Riplinger - Hazardous Materials.pdf

"... Strong’s Concordance definitions are often the very words of these corrupt versions and also the Koran. ..." - Ibid, 161 (PDF 163) - https://archive.org/download/book-bible-gail-riplinger-hazardous-materials/Book - Bible - Gail Riplinger - Hazardous Materials.pdf
​

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then why isn't "Catholic" in the Bible? Before you cite the Greek tell us your credentials for rewriting our Christian Bibles.

WOW.
It's like talking to a wall - without the personality . . .

I suggest you RE-READ posts #17 & 24.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Strong (as in James Strong) was not a "Greek scholar":

"... James Strong was NOT a Linguist that understood Biblical Languages

Though James Strong was a professor, he was NOT a professor in Greek or Hebrew, and was not fluent in these languages, he received nothing but a summary introduction education in these languages. And his credentials as a Doctorate of theology are only honorary; even though he became a professor of Biblical Literature and Exegetical Theology at Troy University and Drew theological seminary in New York.

It appears that his highest earned degree was a Masters (Not in biblical languages, but generic in theology), wherein he was the valedictorian of his graduating class. He was given (Not earned) three honors doctorates (Dr. of Divinity, Dr. of sacred theology, and Dr. of laws) degrees (not based upon academia, studies; meaning they were NOT earned), because of his reputation as a professor and his writings; none concerning biblical language. ..." - The Problem of Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary ~ Greek Words ~ Word Studies ~ and Greek Dictionaries​

Moreover, James Strong was a 'liberal' (as they called him).

See:

"... The Dictionary o f Heresy Trials in American History was written with the collaboration of historians from the Universities of Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, and Duke, as well as the University of Chicago, the University of Maryland, the University of California, the University of Pennsylvania, and other well-respected universities. ..." - Hazardous Materials; page 33 (PDF 35) - https://archive.org/download/book-bible-gail-riplinger-hazardous-materials/Book - Bible - Gail Riplinger - Hazardous Materials.pdf

"... Strong’s Concordance definitions are often the very words of these corrupt versions and also the Koran. ..." - Ibid, 161 (PDF 163) - https://archive.org/download/book-bible-gail-riplinger-hazardous-materials/Book - Bible - Gail Riplinger - Hazardous Materials.pdf
​

Perfect.
Then, all YOU have to do is to disprove what I posted - which you haven't done.

You made the WRONG argument . . .

 

[ReChoired]

WOW.
It's like talking to a wall - without the personality . . .

'Catholic' apologists always resort to this level of character assassination (ad hominem), when the documented material presented to them is irrefutable. They resort to the person, rather than address the material before them.

 

[kcnalp]

WOW.
It's like talking to a wall - without the personality . . .

I suggest you RE-READ posts #17 & 24.

Your opinions do not overrule our Christian Bibles.

 

[kcnalp]

Are you asking me a serious question - or are you just playing dumb?
I already told you that Strong's Greek Concordance and Lexicon was the source.

Which part of that statement are you having difficulty with??

Then why isn't "Catholic" in any of our Bibles?

 

[ReChoired]

Then why isn't "Catholic" in any of our Bibles?

Better question. Why isn't the word "catholic" in the "Catholic" Bibles (like Douay Rheims, etc)?

 

[kcnalp]

Better question. Why isn't the word "catholic" in the "Catholic" Bibles (like Douay Rheims, etc)?

You just asked my next question! Thank you!

 

[lforrest]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

No, I don't expect Jesus would kiss the Quran and nether do I think he would be ungrateful. But he would ask the exact question that would prompt the answer he wanted for the point that he wanted to make. Then he would make his point which reveals himself as the source of life and truth.

This would promptly anger the onlookers.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then why isn't "Catholic" in any of our Bibles?

Your opinions do not overrule our Christian Bibles.

It's glaringly-apparent that YOU don't actually read the posts, either.
How did you guys make it to adulthood?

Better question. Why isn't the word "catholic" in the "Catholic" Bibles (like Douay Rheims, etc)?

Actually - the BEST question is: WHY don't you guys READ the posts you're ranting against?

I already corrected you about this way back in post #16 . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

'Catholic' apologists always resort to this level of character assassination (ad hominem), when the documented material presented to them is irrefutable. They resort to the person, rather than address the material before them.

Really?
Ummmmm, can you show me the "documented" evidence that @kcnalp presented to me that warranted this kind of reaction?

I'll wait right here for your response . . .

 

[kcnalp]

It's glaringly-apparent that YOU don't actually read the posts, either.
How did you guys make it to adulthood?

Actually - the BEST question is: WHY don't you guys READ the posts you're ranting against?

I already corrected you about this way back in post #16 . . .

You can't even find ONE Bible with "Catholic" in it? I have nearly 40 English translations and not a one says "Catholic".

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can't even find ONE Bible with "Catholic" in it? I have nearly 40 English translations and not a one says "Catholic".

Your total failure to understand plain English is at the root of your ignorance.

As I have repeatedly stated - you failed from the beginning.
I corrected you back in post #16 - I suggest you read that post . . .

 

[Paul Christensen]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

The Pope is not born again, and therefore does not have the Holy Spirit. He is aligned with the god of this world, and so would accept any world religion the god of this world would present to him.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Isn't that the pope that woke up dead?

I think that was Pope John Paul I, who died in mysterious circumstances shortly after being installed as Pope. Some say he was poisoned because he intended to expose the corruption in the Vatican and bring significant reforms.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Pope is not born again, and therefore does not have the Holy Spirit. He is aligned with the god of this world, and so would accept any world religion the god of this world would present to him.

Absolutely , positively , SPOT ON RIGHT . You are correct my friend .