Was Pope John Paul II wrong to kiss the Koran?

[K9Buck]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

I suppose I'd have to say that I wouldn't want to be standing any less than 20 feet away from a person who did that. Yikes!

 

[kcnalp]

Pity the Pope on Judgment Day! Personally I believe Allah is Satan in disguise, leading Muslims to Hell fire.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

Isn't that the pope that woke up dead?

 

[WaterSong]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

Yes, he was wrong. And he shall answer to God for it.
Pope Francis permitted the Azan to be recited in St. Peter's years ago. He also permitted the desecration of the high altar there and with the placement of a pagan idol.

This is the first time in the history of the RCC that a Jesuit was elected pope. I think that was purposeful because Francis is Ecumenical.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Yes, he was wrong. And he shall answer to God for it.
Pope Francis permitted the Azan to be recited in St. Peter's years ago. He also permitted the desecration of the high altar there and with the placement of a pagan idol.

This is the first time in the history of the RCC that a Jesuit was elected pope. I think that was purposeful because Francis is Ecumenical.

Many are not aware there is a pope that is higher rank than the pope everyone sees and calls "the pope." The Jesuit Superior General ...or the "black pope."

Also, if you do a bit of research, you will find that the catholic and muslim religions both have Jesuit roots.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Many are not aware there is a pope that is higher rank than the pope everyone sees and calls "the pope." The Jesuit Superior General ...or the "black pope."

Also, if you do a bit of research, you will find that the catholic and muslim religions both have Jesuit roots.

Congratulations.
You have just posted the most asinine manure of the day.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day for you . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Many are not aware there is a pope that is higher rank than the pope everyone sees and calls "the pope." The Jesuit Superior General ...or the "black pope."

Also, if you do a bit of research, you will find that the catholic and muslim religions both have Jesuit roots.

For starters – the Catholic Church goes all the way back to the Apostles.

We see, in the writings of FIRST CENTURY Bishop of Antioch, St. Ignatius in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans, which he wrote on his way to be martyred in Rome at the beginning of the 2nd century – his description of this Church:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole EUCHARIST you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Ignatius of Antioch was a student of the Apostle John and was appointed Bishop of Antioch by Peter himself.

Secondly – St. Ignatius of Loyola formed the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) in 1541.
This is a full 1500 years AFTER the birth of the Catholic Church and some 900 years AFTER the formation of Islam.


So – YOUR asinine claim that Islam and the Catholic Church have “Jesuit roots” is about the most ignorant and stupid thing I’ve read on this forum all month . . .

 

[kcnalp]

For starters – the Catholic Church goes all the way back to the Apostles.

Then why isn't "Catholic" mentioned even once in the Bible?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then why isn't "Catholic" mentioned even once in the Bible?

Actually - it IS . . .

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.

 

[ReChoired]

Actually - it IS . . .
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.

That is blatantly incorrect, and is simply being 'asserted apriori' and proving what you wanted, and I reject such an unfounded assertion and method.

Act. 7:38 KJB This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Act. 7:38 DR This is he that was in the church in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on mount Sina, and with our fathers; who received the words of life to give unto us.​

Also, the word 'catholic' is not once found in scripture, at all.
The word “catholic” [Greek, “καθολικος”, Greek Tr. “Katholikos”] is not found in scripture [KJB], nor even directly in the koine Greek manuscripts, but is rather a derivation of two koine Greek words:

[1] [G2596] “καθ” [from “κατα”, a 'preposition'], “kath”, meaning “through” and

[2] [G3650] “ολης” [an 'adjective' [in this instance, though can be used as noun or adverb]], “holos”, meaning “whole, all, entire”.

Therefore, both, when combined together, meaning the “throughout all” [Acts 9:31 KJB], the whole, entire, or 'universal'.

The word 'catholic' is supposedly, as a later adaptation, in the writings of Ignatius ca. AD 110 (however there are issues here as there are forgeries in some if not all of 'Ignatius'), and also by Cyril of Jerusalem, Ireneaus speaking about Polycarp, and used from the 2nd Century onward by a certain class of persons calling themselves by this name, and is ultimately made more and more prominent, especially in the reign of the Emperor Constantine, in the years of the 4 Emperors [and even afterward], and the various political-religious factions all vying for clout for their self-perceived doctrines. I will recommend you read The Two Republics, by A. T. Jones [approximate 1,000 pages], excellent history,- https://ia801409.us.archive.org/10/items/tworepublicsorr00jonegoog/tworepublicsorr00jonegoog.pdf

There are attempts [please note this word] by the apologists of “Catholicism” to 'find' this word “καθολικος” in the scripture [I cite the KJB, the KJB with Strong's notation, the Greek New Testament from Textus Receptus, and also the same with Strong's notation and Robinson's morphological analysis codes, for each verse, words highlighted]:

[01]

Acts 9:31 KJB - Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Act 9:31 KJB + - ThenG3767 (G3303) hadG2192 theG3588 churchesG1577 restG1515 throughoutG2596 allG3650 JudaeaG2449 andG2532 GalileeG1056 andG2532 Samaria,G4540 and were edified;G3618 andG2532 walkingG4198 in theG3588 fearG5401 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 in theG3588 comfortG3874 of theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 were multiplied.G4129

Acts 9:31 GNT TR - αι μεν ουν εκκλησιαι καθ ολης της ιουδαιας και γαλιλαιας και σαμαρειας ειχον ειρηνην οικοδομουμεναι και πορευομεναι τω φοβω του κυριου και τη παρακλησει του αγιου πνευματος επληθυνοντο

Act 9:31 GNT TR + - αιG3588 T-NPF μενG3303 PRT ουνG3767 CONJ εκκλησιαιG1577 N-NPF καθG2596 PREP οληςG3650 A-GSF τηςG3588 T-GSF ιουδαιαςG2449 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ γαλιλαιαςG1056 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ σαμαρειαςG4540 N-GSF ειχονG2192 V-IAI-3P ειρηνηνG1515 N-ASF οικοδομουμεναιG3618 V-PPP-NPF καιG2532 CONJ πορευομεναιG4198 V-PNP-NPF τωG3588 T-DSM φοβωG5401 N-DSM τουG3588 T-GSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ τηG3588 T-DSF παρακλησειG3874 N-DSF τουG3588 T-GSN αγιουG40 A-GSN πνευματοςG4151 N-GSN επληθυνοντοG4129 V-IPI-3P

*This is the only known instance in the Greek TR texts, where these two words are side by side, yet are clearly two distinct words, not directly speaking of the “church” [“εκκλησιαι”, “ekklesiai”] itself as “καθολικος”, but rather references the locality adjectively [“throughout all”] in which the “church” had “rest” [from persecution].​

[02]

Romans 16:23 KJB - Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you. Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother.

Romans 16:23 KJB + - GaiusG1050 mineG3450 host,G3581 andG2532 of theG3588 wholeG3650 church,G1577 salutethG782 you.G5209 ErastusG2037 theG3588 chamberlainG3623 of theG3588 cityG4172 salutethG782 you,G5209 andG2532 QuartusG2890 a brother.G80

Romans 16:23 GNT TR - ασπαζεται υμας γαιος ο ξενος μου και της εκκλησιας ολης ασπαζεται υμας εραστος ο οικονομος της πολεως και κουαρτος ο αδελφος

Romans 16:23 GNT TR + - ασπαζεταιG782 V-PNI-3S υμαςG4771 P-2AP γαιοςG1050 N-NSM οG3588 T-NSM ξενοςG3581 A-NSM μουG1473 P-1GS καιG2532 CONJ τηςG3588 T-GSF εκκλησιαςG1577 N-GSF οληςG3650 A-GSF ασπαζεταιG782 V-PNI-3S υμαςG4771 P-2AP εραστοςG2037 N-NSM οG3588 T-NSM οικονομοςG3623 N-NSM τηςG3588 T-GSF πολεωςG4172 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ κουαρτοςG2890 N-NSM οG3588 T-NSM αδελφοςG80 N-NSM

*In this instance, the koine Greek word [G2596] “καθ”, is not used at all in combination “ολης”. The word “ολης” is simply being used [as in many other places, 112 KJB [G3650]] as an adjective [“A-GSF”, Adjective – Genative, Singular, Feminine], to describe the amount [of persons thereof, locally] of the church who is [are] doing the greeting [“Tertius”, vs 22], with Paul and Gaius [Paul's “host”]. It is just simply including everyone in the church in the greeting, even after having listed a bunch of names to be greeted [vss. 1-16]. It does not designate the church as “καθολικος”.​

[03]

1 Corinthians 14:23 KJB - If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1 Corinthians 14:23 KJB + - IfG1437 thereforeG3767 theG3588 wholeG3650 churchG1577 be come togetherG4905 intoG1909 one place,G846 andG2532 allG3956 speakG2980 with tongues,G1100 andG1161 there come inG1525 those that are unlearned,G2399 orG2228 unbelievers,G571 will they notG3756 sayG2046 thatG3754 ye are mad?G3105

1 Corinthians 14:23 GNT TR - εαν ουν συνελθη η εκκλησια ολη επι το αυτο και παντες γλωσσαις λαλωσιν εισελθωσιν δε ιδιωται η απιστοι ουκ ερουσιν οτι μαινεσθε

1 Corinthians 14:23 GN TR + - εανG1437 COND ουνG3767 CONJ συνελθηG4905 V-2AAS-3S ηG3588 T-NSF εκκλησιαG1577 N-NSF οληG3650 A-NSF επιG1909 PREP τοG3588 T-ASN αυτοG846 P-ASN καιG2532 CONJ παντεςG3956 A-NPM γλωσσαιςG1100 N-DPF λαλωσινG2980 V-PAS-3P εισελθωσινG1525 V-2AAS-3P δεG1161 CONJ ιδιωταιG2399 N-NPM ηG2228 PRT απιστοιG571 A-NPM ουκG3756 PRT-N ερουσινG2046 V-FAI-3P οτιG3754 CONJ μαινεσθεG3105 V-PNI-2P​

*In this instance, the koine Greek word [G2596] “καθ”, is not used at all in combination “ολης”. The word “ολης” is simply being used [as in many other places, 112 KJB [G3650]] as an adjective [“A-GSF”, Adjective – Nominative, Singular, Feminine], to describe the amount [of persons thereof, locally] of the church if [a possibility] they came together as one group. It does not designate the church as “καθολικος”.​

Each attempt to 'find' this word, “καθολικος”, in scripture [KJB] yields no [0] results. The words “καθ” [used 378 times in the GNT TR, G2596] and/or “ολης” [used 112 times in the GNT TR, G3650] are used throughout the scripture, in various ways, most of which are never in connection with the word “εκκλησια” whatsoever.

This is further confirmed by the Jesuit ('catholic') 'bible' itself, put together in the late 1500's, early 1600's AD (NT 1582 AD, OT 1609-10 AD) or more 'modern translations' approved by the 'catholic church' likewise ( Approved Translations of the Bible | USCCB or The New American Bible ), wherein if we simply search for the word 'catholic' in the text, the verses, itself (apart from footnotes, commentary, headings), we get the following result, which confirms the earlier statements of myself: "Could not find 'catholic' in any verses of the Whole Bible." - # SEARCH catholic and the same result in the NAB ( The New American Bible - IntraText Concordances: «catholic» )

The church in the NT was called "sect of the Nazarenes", Act. 24:5; "the way which they call heresy", Act. 24:14 (and I am of this number, as 'catholicism' so designates); "the way", Act. 18:26, and also "Christians", Act. 11:26, 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16. Please notice that last one. Peter himself said "christian", not ever did he take up the word 'catholic' in the scriptures, nor epistles.

 

[kcnalp]

Actually - it IS . . .

No it isn't. Who proclaimed you a Greek Language expert over our Bibles?

 

[ReChoired]

Years ago Pope John Paul II visited a mosque and was gifted with a Koran, which the Pope kissed. Was he wrong to do so? Would Jesus have kissed that book?

To answer: [1] "Yes". [2] "No."

The title of the thread could actually be, "JPII was wrong [period]" with or without lip service to a 'qur'an' (one of the many Uthmanic recensions).

 

[ReChoired]

Congratulations.
You have just posted the most asinine manure of the day.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day for you . . .

Oh, I think 'asinine' is incorrect, and quite understating the reality of things.

Romanism
&
Islamism

Romanism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Latin
Islamism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Arabic

Romanism - Main Country is Italy, a Peninsula facing to the West
Islamism - Main Country is Arabia, a Peninsula facing to the East

Romanism - Sunday worship, first day of the week - Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment
Islamism - Friday worship, sixth day of the week - Al Jumu'ah 62:9-10

[JEHOVAH's is the Holy 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD Jesus, Exodus 20:8-11 KJB]

Romanism - Sun/moon monstrance in which the 'eucharist/host' is kept
Islamism - Moon/Sun/or star symbol

Romanism - 8 pointed star being a symbol of RC 'Mary'
Islamism - 8 pointed star in Islam

Romanism - Jerome's corrupted Vulgate [corrupted the true vulgate, the Italic], corrupted Sinaiticus, Vaticanus
Islamism - Abu al Qasim's corrupted qur'an [corrupted with gnostic, talmudic, sources, etc]

Romanism - Creeds, so-called 'church fathers', papal bulls, encyclicals, briefs, etc.
Islamism - aHadiths, Sunnah, Tafsirs, Sharia [Islamic laws]

Romanism - [Roman] Canon Law [natural law]
Islamism - Sharia [Islamic law]

[JEHOVAH's Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:1-17 KJB]

Romanism - a combined Religion/State power
Islamism - a combined State/Religion power

[the state and church are to be in their respective spheres, see Romans 13]

Romanism - RC 'Mary' highly exalted to co-Mediatrix, hyper-dulia, etc and Immaculate conception dogma
Islamism - Islamic 'Mary', see qur'an Maryam 19, and aHadith in which 'Mary' is 'not touched by satan'

Romanism - gnostic connections, Shepherd of Hermas, Thomasine, Judasine, etc
Islamism - gnostic connections, Barnabas, etc. baby 'Isa' speaks from under the womb, and cradle, and makes clay birds come to life, etc

Romanism - continuing 'Mass', the unbloody sacrifice
Islamism - continuing bloody animal sacrifices

Romanism - no victory over sin, the Auricular confessional, penances, etc [works salvation, fasting, rosaries, etc]
Islamism - no victory over sin, works salvation, the as-salat, wudu, fasting, pilgrimaages, etc

Romanism - War - Crusades, Inquisition - aka Office/Curia of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Islamism - War - Jihad, a qur'an Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5,29, etc

Romanism - Vatican, Ultramontanism, all power in one man, popery
Islamism - Caliphate, all power in one man, Mahdi, etc. a qur'an Al Nisa' 4:65, Al Ahzab 33:36

Romanism - Pope's sayings, councils sayings, traditions of men
Islamism - Muhammad's sayings [aHadith], traditions of men

Romanism - another Intercessor, RC 'Mary', the co-Mediatrix, co-Redemptrix, Popes, Priests, 'Saints', etc
Islamism - Abu al Qasim

Romanism - Important women, RC 'Mary', 'Fatima' [city, so-called miracle site]
Islamism - Important women, Islamic 'Mary', Maraym 19, Fatimah the daughter of Abu al Qasim [Muhammad]

Romanism - monkery, monasticism, etc
Islamism - Khadija, Waraq bin Naufal, Nestor [Baeira, Pakhyras, Sergius the monk] see Hayatu'l-Qulub' by Abu Talib, or Al-Asbahani, Dala'il al-Nubuwah 1:173, or see the Jami' al-Tawarikh by Rashid al-Din Hamadani published in Tabriz, Persia, or see Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi, or Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, or even just plain old Yusuf Ali notations on Baeira.

Romanism - Pilgrimmages to Fatima, Lourdes, Vatican, Guadalupe, etc
Islamism - Pilgrimmages, the greater and lesser hajj to Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Ka'bam, etc.

Romanism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult
Islamism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult

Romanism - purgatory, limbo, etc
Islamism - Barzakh, a waiting place on the other side of the as-sirat bridge, until judgment day

Romanism - Eternal torments in hellfire/lake of fire, a never-ending, always increasing torment
Islamism - Eternal torments [especially for women, as they are the ones to fill hell mostly] in a hellfire/lake of fire, always increasing, never-ending, in Islam there are 7 levels of Hell [Jahannam; Jahim, Jahannam, Sa'ir, Saqar, Ladha, Hawiyah, Hutamah]

[Bible [KJB] teaches 2nd death, oblivion, dead and gone forever, no life, burnt up into smoke and ashes in the flames on earth before being made new, see Revelation 20, etc]

Romanism - Nuns/Habits/Monks/Cloistered
Islamism - Hijab, Burkha, women cannot work, must stay in the house in a single room [a few exceptions], etc.

Romanism - special exorcists
Islamism - special exorcists, called the ruqyah; al-Tibb al-Nabawi

Romanism - beads, 'the Rosary', the vain repetitious prayers, also monk chants, breath prayers, desert 'fathers' mysticism, etc, to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan:

"...as though they were listening to the very voice of the Blessed Mother explaining the mysteries and conversing with them at length..." [ON THE ROSARY; MAGNAE DEI MATRIS; Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1892.]​

Islamism - beads, the Misbah, Tasbih, Sibha, having the same effect to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan

Romanism - Cantor, Intonation, Gregorian Chants
Islamism - Muslim chants, qur'anic intonation [which means recitation]

Romanism - earthly sanctuary at the Vatican, the Mass in Rome
Islamism - earthly sanctuary, the Ka'baa in Mecca

Romanism - Indulgences, forgiveness of sins, kissing pope's feet, etc
Islamism - sins forgiven by 'good' [meaning Islamic] deeds, which wipe out 'bad' [means Islamic] deeds, kissing the idolatrous black stone inside the Yoni corner.

Romanism - Washings for the Mass, with specifications, etc
Islamism - Wudu, religious washings, with specifications, etc

Romanism - claim earthly Jerusalem [a forever desolate city] for Catholicism
Islamism - claim earthly Jerusalem [a forever desolate city] for Islamism

[JEHOVAH's eternal city, the New Jerusalem is above, Galatians 4:26 KJB, coming down from Heaven, Revelation 21:2, for here we have no continuing city, Hebrews 13:14 KJB]

Romanism - Captial - Rome, the self-styled and so-called 'eternal city'
Islamism - Captial - Mecca

Romanism - false understanding of angels, Michael, Gabriel and other numerous named angels in their sources, sandalfon, metatron, salthiel, saraquel, raphael, etc.
Islamism - false understanding of angels, Michael, Gabriel and other numerous named angels in their sources, Israfel, etc.

Romanism - Visionaries - Ignatius Loyola, etc [in a Cave]
Islamism - Visionaries - Abu al Qasim [in a Cave, Hira]

Romanism - private killer assassins, political rebellion creators, the Jesuits, Dominicans, Opus Dei, etc
Islamism - Hashashins [assassins]

Romanism - Religious Calendar - Lent, Easter, etc, etc.
Islamism - Religious Calendar - Ramadan, etc, etc.

Romanism - pagan practices accepted or taken over and 'baptized', all-saints day, equinoxes, etc
Islamism - pagan practices, circling the Ka'baa, throwing stones at the shaytan, etc.

Romanism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances [Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14; Acts 15; 1 Timothy 4:3 KJB]
Islamism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances, under Abu al Qasim's Halal and Haram [and Makrooh]

Romanism - etc. add your own
Islamism - etc. add your own

The two are mirrored of each other, a yin and yang, a so-called 'light' and 'dark', both in great error, yet the one [Islam] came out of the other, an attempt at an early eccumenical [Mecci] endeavor, that failed [Medini].

 

[ReChoired]

Congratulations.
You have just posted the most asinine manure of the day.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day for you . . .

Let's consider this 'asinine' (sic) historical material that links Rome to Islam:

The Catholic connection - Khadija d. Khuwaylid [first wife of Abu al Qasim [Muhammad / Ahmed] and [her cousin] Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza [a catholic]:

Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3 -

“... Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food likewise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, “I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, “Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones.” Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, “Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?” Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, “This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” Allah's Apostle asked, “Will they drive me out?” Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, “Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet “While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira' sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, 'Wrap me (in blankets).' And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran): 'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly.” ...”​

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is blatantly incorrect, and is simply being 'asserted apriori' and proving what you wanted, and I reject such an unfounded assertion and method.

Act. 7:38 KJB This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Act. 7:38 DR This is he that was in the church in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on mount Sina, and with our fathers; who received the words of life to give unto us.​

Also, the word 'catholic' is not once found in scripture, at all.
The word “catholic” [Greek, “καθολικος”, Greek Tr. “Katholikos”] is not found in scripture [KJB], nor even directly in the koine Greek manuscripts, but is rather a derivation of two koine Greek words:

[1] [G2596] “καθ” [from “κατα”, a 'preposition'], “kath”, meaning “through” and

[2] [G3650] “ολης” [an 'adjective' [in this instance, though can be used as noun or adverb]], “holos”, meaning “whole, all, entire”.

Therefore, both, when combined together, meaning the “throughout all” [Acts 9:31 KJB], the whole, entire, or 'universal'.

The word 'catholic' is supposedly, as a later adaptation, in the writings of Ignatius ca. AD 110 (however there are issues here as there are forgeries in some if not all of 'Ignatius'), and also by Cyril of Jerusalem, Ireneaus speaking about Polycarp, and used from the 2nd Century onward by a certain class of persons calling themselves by this name, and is ultimately made more and more prominent, especially in the reign of the Emperor Constantine, in the years of the 4 Emperors [and even afterward], and the various political-religious factions all vying for clout for their self-perceived doctrines. I will recommend you read The Two Republics, by A. T. Jones [approximate 1,000 pages], excellent history,- https://ia801409.us.archive.org/10/items/tworepublicsorr00jonegoog/tworepublicsorr00jonegoog.pdf

There are attempts [please note this word] by the apologists of “Catholicism” to 'find' this word “καθολικος” in the scripture [I cite the KJB, the KJB with Strong's notation, the Greek New Testament from Textus Receptus, and also the same with Strong's notation and Robinson's morphological analysis codes, for each verse, words highlighted]:

[01]

Acts 9:31 KJB - Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Act 9:31 KJB + - ThenG3767 (G3303) hadG2192 theG3588 churchesG1577 restG1515 throughoutG2596 allG3650 JudaeaG2449 andG2532 GalileeG1056 andG2532 Samaria,G4540 and were edified;G3618 andG2532 walkingG4198 in theG3588 fearG5401 of theG3588 Lord,G2962 andG2532 in theG3588 comfortG3874 of theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 were multiplied.G4129

*This is the only known instance in the Greek TR texts, where these two words are side by side, yet are clearly two distinct words, not directly speaking of the “church” [“εκκλησιαι”, “ekklesiai”] itself as “καθολικος”, but rather references the locality adjectively [“throughout all”] in which the “church” had “rest” [from persecution].​

[02]

Romans 16:23 KJB - Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you. Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother.

*In this instance, the koine Greek word [G2596] “καθ”, is not used at all in combination “ολης”. The word “ολης” is simply being used [as in many other places, 112 KJB [G3650]] as an adjective [“A-GSF”, Adjective – Genative, Singular, Feminine], to describe the amount [of persons thereof, locally] of the church who is [are] doing the greeting [“Tertius”, vs 22], with Paul and Gaius [Paul's “host”]. It is just simply including everyone in the church in the greeting, even after having listed a bunch of names to be greeted [vss. 1-16]. It does not designate the church as “καθολικος”.​

[03]

1 Corinthians 14:23 KJB - If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1 Corinthians 14:23 KJB + - IfG1437 thereforeG3767 theG3588 wholeG3650 churchG1577 be come togetherG4905 intoG1909 one place,G846 andG2532 allG3956 speakG2980 with tongues,G1100 andG1161 there come inG1525 those that are unlearned,G2399 orG2228 unbelievers,G571 will they notG3756 sayG2046 thatG3754 ye are mad?G3105

1 Corinthians 14:23 GNT TR - εαν ουν συνελθη η εκκλησια ολη επι το αυτο και παντες γλωσσαις λαλωσιν εισελθωσιν δε ιδιωται η απιστοι ουκ ερουσιν οτι μαινεσθε

1 Corinthians 14:23 GN TR + - εανG1437 COND ουνG3767 CONJ συνελθηG4905 V-2AAS-3S ηG3588 T-NSF εκκλησιαG1577 N-NSF οληG3650 A-NSF επιG1909 PREP τοG3588 T-ASN αυτοG846 P-ASN καιG2532 CONJ παντεςG3956 A-NPM γλωσσαιςG1100 N-DPF λαλωσινG2980 V-PAS-3P εισελθωσινG1525 V-2AAS-3P δεG1161 CONJ ιδιωταιG2399 N-NPM ηG2228 PRT απιστοιG571 A-NPM ουκG3756 PRT-N ερουσινG2046 V-FAI-3P οτιG3754 CONJ μαινεσθεG3105 V-PNI-2P​

*In this instance, the koine Greek word [G2596] “καθ”, is not used at all in combination “ολης”. The word “ολης” is simply being used [as in many other places, 112 KJB [G3650]] as an adjective [“A-GSF”, Adjective – Nominative, Singular, Feminine], to describe the amount [of persons thereof, locally] of the church if [a possibility] they came together as one group. It does not designate the church as “καθολικος”.​

Each attempt to 'find' this word, “καθολικος”, in scripture [KJB] yields no [0] results. The words “καθ” [used 378 times in the GNT TR, G2596] and/or “ολης” [used 112 times in the GNT TR, G3650] are used throughout the scripture, in various ways, most of which are never in connection with the word “εκκλησια” whatsoever.

This is further confirmed by the Jesuit ('catholic') 'bible' itself, put together in the late 1500's, early 1600's AD (NT 1582 AD, OT 1609-10 AD) or more 'modern translations' approved by the 'catholic church' likewise ( Approved Translations of the Bible | USCCB or The New American Bible ), wherein if we simply search for the word 'catholic' in the text, the verses, itself (apart from footnotes, commentary, headings), we get the following result, which confirms the earlier statements of myself: "Could not find 'catholic' in any verses of the Whole Bible." - # SEARCH catholic and the same result in the NAB ( The New American Bible - IntraText Concordances: «catholic» )

The church in the NT was called "sect of the Nazarenes", Act. 24:5; "the way which they call heresy", Act. 24:14 (and I am of this number, as 'catholicism' so designates); "the way", Act. 18:26, and also "Christians", Act. 11:26, 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16. Please notice that last one. Peter himself said "christian", not ever did he take up the word 'catholic' in the scriptures, nor epistles.

So, like a typical anti-Catholic - you didn't actually READ my post.

THIS is the line you completely glossed over in your tirade:
"The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “ekklesia katah-holos”."

Next time - STOP and READ what you are ranting about . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No it isn't. Who proclaimed you a Greek Language expert over our Bibles?

What I posted is linguistically accurate - and taken from Strong's Greek Concordance and Lexicon.
THEY are the Greek Scholars . . .

 

[ReChoired]

Congratulations.
You have just posted the most asinine manure of the day.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day for you . . .

Let's consider this 'asinine' (sic) historical material that links Rome to Islam:

​

Ibn Ishaq, The Life Of Muhammad, A Translation of Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, pages 105-107 paragraphs 152-154 -

[page 105 paragraph 152] “... Wahb b. Kaisan told me that 'Ubayd said to him: Every year during the month the apostle would pray in seclusion and give food to the poor that came to him. And when he completed the month and returned from his seclusion, first of all before entering his house he would go to the Ka'ba and walk around it seven times or as often as it pleased God; then he would go back to his house until in the year when God sent him, in the month of [page 105-106 paragraph 152-153] Ramadan in which God willed concerning him what He willed of His grace, the apostle set forth to Hira as was his wont, and his family with him. When it was the night on which God honoured him with his mission and showed mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. 'He came to me,' said the apostle of God, 'While I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, “Read!” I said, “What shall I read?” He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said, “Read!” I said, “What shall I read?” He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said “Read!” I said, “What shall I read?” He pressed me with it the third time so that I thought it was death and said “Read!” I said, “What then shall I read?” – and this I said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do the same to me again. He said:

“Read in the name of the Lord who created,
Who created man of blood coagulated.
Read! They Lord is the most beneficent,
Who taught by the pen,
Taught that which they knew not unto me.” [1]

So I read it, and he departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart. (T. [1150] Now none of God's creatures was more hateful to me than an (ecstatic) poet or a man possessed: I could not even look at them. I thought, Woe is me poet or possessed – Never shall Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest. So I went forth to do so and then) when I was midway on the mountain, I heard a voice from heaven saying, “O Muhammad! thou art the apostle of God and I am Gabriel.” I raised my head towards heaven to see (who was speaking), and lo, Gabriel in the form of a man with feet astride the horizon, saying, “O Muhammad! thou art the apostle of God and I am Gabriel.” I stood gazing at him (T. and that turned me from my purpose) moving neither forward nor backward; then I began to turn my face away from him, but towards whatever region of the sky I looked, I saw him as before. And I continued standing there, neither advancing nor turning back, until Khadija sent her messengers in search of me and they gained the high ground above Mecca and returned to her while I was standing in the same place; then he parted from me and I from him, returning to my family. And I came to Khadija and sat by her thigh and drew close to her. She said, “O Abu'l-Qasim, [2] where hast thou been? By God, I sent my messengers in search of thee, and they reached the high ground above Mecca and returned to me.” (T. I said to he, “Woe is me poet or possessed.” She said, “I take refuge in God from that O Abu'l-Qasim. God would not treat you thus since he knows your truthfulness, your great trustworthiness, your fine character, and your kindness. This cannot be, my dear. Perhaps [page 106-107 paragraph 153-154. [1] Surah 96:1-5, [2] The kunya or 'name of honour' of Muhammad.] you did see something.” “Yes, I did,” I said.) Then I told her of what I had seen; and she said, “Rejoice, O son of my uncle, and be of good heart. Verily, by Him in whose hand is Khadija's soul, I have hope that thou wilt be the prophet of this people.”' Then she rose and gathered her garments about her and set forth to her cousin Waraqa b. Naufal b. Asad b. 'Abdu'l-'Uzza b. Qusayy, who had become a Christian and read the scriptures and learned from those that follow the Torah and the Gospel. And when she related to him what the apostle of God told her he had seen and heard, Waraqa cried, 'Holy! Holy! Verily by Him in whose hand is Waraqa's soul, if thou hast spoken to me the truth, O Khadija, there hath come unto him the greatest Namus (T. meaning Gabriel) who came to Moses aforetime, and lo, he is the prophet of this people. Bid him be of good heart.' So Khadija returned to the apostle of God and told him what Waraqa had said. (T. and that calmed his fears somewhat.) And when the apostle of God had finished his period of seclusion and returned (to Mecca), in the first place he performed the circumambulation of the Ka'ba, as was his wont. While he was doing it, Waraqa met him and said, 'O son of my brother, tell me what thou hast seen and heard.' The apostle told him, and Waraqa said, 'Surely, by Him in whose hand is Waraqa's soul, thou art the prophet of this people. There hath come unto thee the greatest Namus, who came unto Moses. Thou wilt be called a liar, and they will use thee despitefully and cast thee out and fight against thee. Verily, if I live to see that day, I will help God in such wise as He knoweth.' Then he brought his head near to him and kissed his forehead; and the apostle went to his own house. (T. Waraqa's words added to his confidence and lightened his anxiety.)

Isma'il b. Abu Hamik, a freedman of the family of al-Zubayr, told me on Khadija's authority that she said to the apostle of God, 'O son of my uncle, are you able to tell me about your visitant, when he comes to you?' he replied that he could, and she asked him to tell her when he came. So when Gabriel came to him, as he was wont, the apostle said to Khadija, 'This is Gabriel who has just come to me.' 'Get up, O son of my uncle,' she said, 'and sit by my left thigh'. The apostle did so, and she said, 'Can you see him?' 'Yes,' he said. She said, 'Then turn round and sit on my right thigh.' He did so, and she said, 'Can you see him?' When he had done this she again asked if he could see him, and when he said yes, she disclosed her form and cast aside her veil while the apostle was sitting in her lap. Then she said, 'Can you see him?' And he replied, 'No.' She said, 'O son of my uncle, rejoice and be of good heart, by God he is an angel and not a satan.'

I told 'Abdullah b. Hasan this story and he said, 'I heard my mother Fatima, daughter of Husayn, talking about this tradition from Khadija, but as I heard it she made the apostle of God come inside her shift, and thereupon Gabriel departed, and she said to the apostle of God, “This verily is an angel and not a satan.”' ...” [page 107 paragraph 154]​

So far, we have both Khadija [the 40 year old woman who married Abu al Qasim] and her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal, a catholic, who encouraged Abu al Qasim, and confirmed the prophethood of Muhammed, which purpose was to gather the peoples of the Arabian desert under a single banner, as a messiah-like figure to the Arabs, and mixed peoples, and use them as a weapon against the Jews in Jerusalem, to capture it, for Rome.

Begin to ask, how did Khadija know about "Gabriel" and other spirits, and the ridiculous 'ceremony' to get rid of a evil spirit, and same with Waraqua, etc.

 

[kcnalp]

So, like a typical anti-Catholic - you didn't actually READ my post.

THIS is the line you completely glossed over in your tirade:
"The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “ekklesia katah-holos”."

Next time - STOP and READ what you are ranting about . . .

How long have you been a Greek expert?

 

[ReChoired]

Congratulations.
You have just posted the most asinine manure of the day.

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a better day for you . . .

Let's consider this 'asinine' (sic) historical material that links Rome to Islam:

Why would "M." make only a deal with 'catholics'?

"... Interestingly, Muhammad, despite having waged massacres against communities of various religions, offered his protection to Roman Catholic St. Catherine’s monastery in A.D. 628. The monastery survives to this day despite being located within a country of Islamic dominance. ..." - Life Line to Members of the New Apostolic Church​

The Ashtiname with the St. Catherine's monastery [the place of the infamous Codex Sinaiticus supposedly its orgination according to Constantin von Tischendorf, or instead a personal workof Constantine Simonides, according to himself, gathered at the pseudo-'Mt. Sinai', see also:

"... According to the historical record, the freedoms granted by the Prophet to the monks of Mount Sinai, along with other communities, were honored by Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Uthman, and ‘Ali, as well as the Umayyads, and the ‘Abassids. The Covenant of the Prophet Muhammad with the Monks of Mount Sinai is next attested by Muhammad ibn Sa‘d al-Baghdadi (784-845), the early Muslim historian and scribe of al-Waqidi (748-822 CE), one of the earliest historians of Islam and biographer of the Prophet, in a document called the Treaty of Saint Catherine which is cited in his Ṭabaqat or Book of Major Classes ..." - Covenant of Prophet Muhammad with the Monks of Mt. Sinai - Dr. John Andrew Morrow
Wikipedia:

"... The Ashtiname of Muhammad, also known as the Covenant or Testament (Testamentum) of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad, is a document which is a charter or writ ratified by the Islamic prophet Muhammad granting protection and other privileges to the followers of Jesus the Nazarene, given to the Christian monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery. It is sealed with an imprint representing Muhammad's hand.[1] ..." - Ashtiname of Muhammad - Wikipedia

"... Whenever Christian monks, devotees and pilgrims gather together, whether in a mountain or valley, or den, or frequented place, or plain, or church, or in houses of worship, verily we are [at the] back of them and shall protect them, and their properties and their morals, by Myself, by My Friends and by My Assistants, for they are of My Subjects and under My Protection. ..." - Ashtiname of Muhammad - Wikipedia

Is it acknowledged by Islam and History? Yes ...

"... Tradition confirms that both Khadija and Waraqa were both [catholics] ..."
​

The Ashtiname of Muhammad in full, English:

"... English Translation of the Ashtiname by Anton F. Haddad

This is a letter which was issued by Mohammed, Ibn Abdullah, the Messenger, the Prophet, the Faithful, who is sent to all the people as a trust on the part of God to all His creatures, that they may have no plea against God hereafter. Verily God is Omnipotent, the Wise. This letter is directed to the embracers of Islam, as a covenant given to the followers of Jesus the Nazarene in the East and West, the far and near, the Arabs and foreigners, the known and the unknown.

This letter contains the oath given unto them, and he who disobeys that which is therein will be considered a disbeliever and a transgressor to that whereunto he is commanded. He will be regarded as one who has corrupted the oath of God, disbelieved His Testament, rejected His Authority, despised His Religion, and made himself deserving of His Curse, whether he is a Sultan or any other believer of Islam. Whenever Christian monks, devotees and pilgrims gather together, whether in a mountain or valley, or den, or frequented place, or plain, or church, or in houses of worship, verily we are [at the] back of them and shall protect them, and their properties and their morals, by Myself, by My Friends and by My Assistants, for they are of My Subjects and under My Protection.

I shall exempt them from that which may disturb them; of the burdens which are paid by others as an oath of allegiance. They must not give anything of their income but that which pleases them—they must not be offended, or disturbed, or coerced or compelled. Their judges should not be changed or prevented from accomplishing their offices, nor the monks disturbed in exercising their religious order, or the people of seclusion be stopped from dwelling in their cells.

No one is allowed to plunder these Christians, or destroy or spoil any of their churches, or houses of worship, or take any of the things contained within these houses and bring it to the houses of Islam. And he who takes away anything therefrom, will be one who has corrupted the oath of God, and, in truth, disobeyed His Messenger.

Jizya should not be put upon their judges, monks, and those whose occupation is the worship of God; nor is any other thing to be taken from them, whether it be a fine, a tax or any unjust right. Verily I shall keep their compact, wherever they may be, in the sea or on the land, in the East or West, in the North or South, for they are under My Protection and the testament of My Safety, against all things which they abhor.

No taxes or tithes should be received from those who devote themselves to the worship of God in the mountains, or from those who cultivate the Holy Lands. No one has the right to interfere with their affairs, or bring any action against them. Verily this is for aught else and not for them; rather, in the seasons of crops, they should be given a Kadah for each Ardab of wheat (about five bushels and a half) as provision for them, and no one has the right to say to them 'this is too much', or ask them to pay any tax.

As to those who possess properties, the wealthy and merchants, the poll-tax to be taken from them must not exceed twelve drachmas a head per year (i.e. about 200 modern day US dollars).

They shall not be imposed upon by anyone to undertake a journey, or to be forced to go to wars or to carry arms; for the Muslims have to fight for them. Do not dispute or argue with them, but deal according to the verse recorded in the Quran, to wit: ‘Do not dispute or argue with the People of the Book but in that which is best’ [29:46]. Thus they will live favored and protected from everything which may offend them by the Callers to religion (Islam), wherever they may be and in any place they may dwell.

Should any Christian woman be married to a Muslim, such marriage must not take place except after her consent, and she must not be prevented from going to her church for prayer. Their churches must be honored and they must not be withheld from building churches or repairing convents.

They must not be forced to carry arms or stones; but the Muslims must protect them and defend them against others. It is positively incumbent upon every one of the follower of Islam not to contradict or disobey this oath until the Day of Resurrection and the end of the world.[3] ..." - Ashtiname of Muhammad - Wikipedia
​

One must ask the question, how did Khadija know who the angel Jibr'il [supposedly Gabriel] was, a satan or evil angel was, how to test for a true or false angel [which was a ridiculous superstitious test], how they knew what the signs of a prophet to Arabia were to be, and how did Waraqa know the things he did, if they were to have no knowledge of Catholicism?

It is obvious, that there was a "catholic" presence in Makkah/Mecca and as well as Yathrib/Medina.​