Telling lies about the Catholic Church is not disrespectful or demeaning?
OK, whatever floats your boat.
Where does the Bible say...
- Thread starter theefaith
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Telling lies about the Catholic Church is not disrespectful or demeaning?
OK, whatever floats your boat.
Sister White was a woman, which gave forth that which God told her to share, and I am mocked for this?
Now, is the Roman Catholic Church, likened unto a 'woman' which speaks forth many decretals, and 'bulls', which she claims God gave to her?
“It must be always clear that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic universal church is not the sister, but the mother of all the churches.”, “It's evident that it would go against the faith to consider the [Catholic] church as 'one' way of salvation 'alongside' those represented by other religions.” - Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger [later Pope Benedict XVI]; Article “Other churches are no sisters of ours, the Vatican insists”, by Lloyd Rundle, Monday, 4 September 2000; Other churches are no sisters of ours, the Vatican insists - Europe, World - The Independent
“The term Mother Church, however, as applied to Rome, has a special significance as indicating its headship of all churches.” - Filial (meaning daughter) Church, Catholic Encyclopedia; CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Filial Church
“The expression “Church of Rome”, it should be noted, though commonly applied by non-Catholics to the whole Catholic body, can only be used correctly in this secondary sense for the local diocese (or possibly the province) of Rome, mother and mistress of all Churches.” - Latin Church, Catholic Encyclopedia; CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Latin Church
“...11. Therefore Holy Mother Church, supported by these truths, while again recommending to the faithful the practice of indulgences as something very dear to the Christian people during the course of many centuries and in our days as well--this is proven by experience--does not in any way intend to diminish the value of other means of sanctification and purification, first and foremost among which are the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments, particularly the Sacrament of Penance. ...” - [Indulgentarium Doctrina; Apostolic Constitution on Indulgences; His Holiness Pope Paul VI; Promulgated on January 1, 1967] CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Indulgentarium Doctrina (1967)
“The term Mother Church, however, as applied to Rome, has a special significance as indicating its headship of all churches.” - Filial (meaning daughter) Church, Catholic Encyclopedia; CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Filial Church
“The expression “Church of Rome”, it should be noted, though commonly applied by non-Catholics to the whole Catholic body, can only be used correctly in this secondary sense for the local diocese (or possibly the province) of Rome, mother and mistress of all Churches.” - Latin Church, Catholic Encyclopedia; CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Latin Church
“...11. Therefore Holy Mother Church, supported by these truths, while again recommending to the faithful the practice of indulgences as something very dear to the Christian people during the course of many centuries and in our days as well--this is proven by experience--does not in any way intend to diminish the value of other means of sanctification and purification, first and foremost among which are the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments, particularly the Sacrament of Penance. ...” - [Indulgentarium Doctrina; Apostolic Constitution on Indulgences; His Holiness Pope Paul VI; Promulgated on January 1, 1967] CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Indulgentarium Doctrina (1967)
So, can we compare the two?
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,668
- 3,593
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
As usual - you're not getting it.
Eve was always Eve and Satan was always Satan - - just as YOU were always who YOU are - even before you were all given those names.
Let me dumb it down for you . . .
If I decide to get married on June 19th - that BECOMES my anniversary. It was ALWAYS June 19th - but it wasn't always my anniversary.
The Seventh Day in Genesis WASN'T the Sabbath until the Mosaic Law MADE it the Sabbath in Exod. 16:23.
NOT that difficult to parse . . .
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,668
- 3,593
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
This is nothing but another wacky SDA shell game . . .
"Uhhhhhh, 'Saturday' isn't 'Sabbath' because they mean 2 different things - and 'Saturday' is named after a Roman god - but 'Sabbath' was named by God, etc . . ."
The fact remains that the Sabbath falls on the 7th Day of the week which is - you guessed it - SATURDAY.
NOBODY is saying that the 2 words mean the same thing. That is just a desperate SDA diversionary tactic.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
So, consider this.. Here are these women living under a system that we in America know very little about.
That is, Male dominance over the woman in the Middle Eastern life.
They got stoned if they were even suspected of having an affair.
Now these women, they obeyed the law:
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
They were resting, Jesus was sleeping (kind of like Lazarus was sleeping) all on the sabbath day, as was commanded.
What if they decided it was better to be doing something else on the Sabbath?
Well, we already see the Religious folk got all over Jesus for feeding his sheep some corn and healing other sheep on the sabbath.
These people were merciless. They would of taken those women and stoned them in the public square.
They would not have been able to be there early on the first day to see the stone rolled away.
And the Romans that were guarding it could of just covered it back over and none would ever be the wiser.
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
God don't make laws just for the sake of lauding over people, like men do.
He makes them for a reason.
And this one in particular He made for Himself and those He invites to join Him.
Man can change whatever laws and rules they want. But it CAN NOT change God's Truth.
That law saved those women so they could testify of the risen Christ on the first day of the week.
There is another Sabbath coming..
I just hope people don't miss it and wonder why.
Just my thoughts.
Hugs
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,668
- 3,593
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
And for ALL of your verbose cut-and-paste jobs from SDA sites - the fact remains that the Sabbath is NOT even mentioned as a holy day until Exod. 16:23, as it pertains to gathering the Manna in the desert. And WHAT is the Scriptural FULFILLMENT of the Manna?
The EUCHARIST:
John 6:47-51
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
The Early Church understood that Law pointed to Christ and the Eucharist.
That's what the SABBATH pointed us to. NOT the ongoing hope of His coming - but the fact that He DID come and suffered and died - and ROSE from the dead . . .
The Didache
But every LORD’S DAY . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch
[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e., Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, NO LONGER OBSERVING THE SABBATH, but living in the observance of the LORD’S DAY, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).
The Didascalia
The apostles further appointed; On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
Victorinus
The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the LORD’S DAY we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. Let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).
Eusebius
They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things (Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 325]).
[T]he day of his [Christ's] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the LORD’S DAY, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic Law for feasts, new moons, and SABBATHS, which the Apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality (Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).
Athanasius
The Sabbath was the end of the first creation, the LORD'S DAY was the beginning of the second, in which he renewed and restored the old in the same way as he prescribed that they should formerly observe the Sabbath as a memorial of the end of the first things, so we honor the Lord's day as being the memorial of the new creation (On Sabbath and Circumcision 3 [A.D. 345]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
Fall not away either into the sect of the Samaritans or into Judaism, for Jesus Christ has ransomed you. Stand aloof from all observance of Sabbaths and from calling indifferent meats common or unclean (Catechetical Lectures 4:37 [A.D. 350]).
Sister White was a woman, which gave forth that which God told her to share, and I am mocked for this?
Now, is the Roman Catholic Church, likened unto a 'woman' which speaks forth many decretals, and 'bulls', which she claims God gave to her?
“It must be always clear that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic universal church is not the sister, but the mother of all the churches.”, “It's evident that it would go against the faith to consider the [Catholic] church as 'one' way of salvation 'alongside' those represented by other religions.” - Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger [later Pope Benedict XVI]; Article “Other churches are no sisters of ours, the Vatican insists”, by Lloyd Rundle, Monday, 4 September 2000; Other churches are no sisters of ours, the Vatican insists - Europe, World - The Independent
“The term Mother Church, however, as applied to Rome, has a special significance as indicating its headship of all churches.” - Filial (meaning daughter) Church, Catholic Encyclopedia; CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Filial Church
“The expression “Church of Rome”, it should be noted, though commonly applied by non-Catholics to the whole Catholic body, can only be used correctly in this secondary sense for the local diocese (or possibly the province) of Rome, mother and mistress of all Churches.” - Latin Church, Catholic Encyclopedia; CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Latin Church
“...11. Therefore Holy Mother Church, supported by these truths, while again recommending to the faithful the practice of indulgences as something very dear to the Christian people during the course of many centuries and in our days as well--this is proven by experience--does not in any way intend to diminish the value of other means of sanctification and purification, first and foremost among which are the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments, particularly the Sacrament of Penance. ...” - [Indulgentarium Doctrina; Apostolic Constitution on Indulgences; His Holiness Pope Paul VI; Promulgated on January 1, 1967] CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Indulgentarium Doctrina (1967)
So, can we compare the two?
What was the point of that post?
Do you just like copy and pasting rubbish?
They specialise in diversionary tactics. Usually by posting great reams of copy and paste nonesense.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,668
- 3,593
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Yet, the sabbath existed before Exodus 16:23. God said so in Exodus 20:8-11. Hebrews 4, says the same.
The 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3 is the "anniversary" date to "Remember", and you are right, it was "NOT that difficult to parse . . . ", unless one is completely obtuse to truth.
Notice, the peoples in Exodus 20 didn't start the "anniversary" there. They were to "Remember" the anniversary date already there and present from Genesis 2:1-3, which is why God asked in Exodus 16, "How long ...", for they had been in Egypt 400+ years, and through the time therein, since the days of Joseph, they as a people and descendants of Abraham, had come to be slack with Remembering to Keep the day Holy, and Moses was given the task to bring Sabbath reform into Egypt.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The LORD God (JEHOVAH Elohiym) states that in Genesis the "sabbath" is when the LORD God rested in the 7th day, sanctifying it (setting it apart for "the man" - Mark 2:27, Adam (first and last)) and made it holy by the LORD God's resting therein, not at Mt. Sinai. In Exodus 19, God's "my covenant" was already with Abraham, and Noah, and those before them, unto Adam, Genesis 3:15, and yea, even before that in Christ Jesus, as it is an eternal/everlasting covenant made before all things were created, between the Father and the Son, with the Holy Ghost as Witness (Malachi 2:5; &c).
In Hebrew it is even more emphatic:
"the seventh day" = "the sabbath of the LORD thy God".
When? after the "six days" that "the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
In order for the LORD God to have "blessed" (past tense) and "hallowed" (past tense) the "sabbath day" it already had to have existed as "the seventh day" in Genesis, and thus it was way back then that the "anniversary" of Creation existed, not at Mt. Sinai or Exodus 16, or even Exodus 5. Mark 2:27 clearly states that the "sabbath" was "made" for "the man". Nothing was "made" in Exodus 16, neither Exodus 20. So just because you cannot find the word "sabbath" in Genesis 2:1-3, the LORD God does so find it, as stated in Exodus 20:8-11, which is God's own commentary and statement of fact about the matter of Genesis 2:1-3.
Finally, Adam's wife was not always "Eve", as a name in scripture is associated with one's character, and as stated, she was not named "Eve" until after Genesis 3:15. So also with Satan. Lucifer was not always "Satan" either. The word "Eve" and the word "Satan" are not present in Genesis 1-2, and yet by your previous logic, which you say that the word "sabbath" is not present in Genesis 2:1-3, that it was not for "the man" at that time, until the days of Moses (before Mt. Sinai, in Exodus 16)?. That same logic, would then have to apply to the words "Eve" and "Satan". What you are attempting to do is bait and switch, from the actual "words" ("sabbath", "Eve", "Satan", &c) to their substance, or existence. The existence is not the question you raised. You raised the issue about the "word" not being present. Why do you attempt to slip past this point?
The 7th day did not "become"/"became" the "sabbath" in Exodus 16 or 20. The word "become"/"became" will not be found therein, and surely because you cannot find "the words" there, it is not there as you say, because that would contradict your original point about "the word" "sabbath" not being present in Genesis 2:1-3. You have an illogical, self-contradictory, argument, and even one which denies Rome's own statements on the matter.
We see that Roman Catholicism fully admits that the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord thy God existed before Mt. Sinai, and that they already knew about it before Moses came along:
"The Sabbath ... in connection with the fall of the manna (Exodus 16:22 sqq.)... appears as an institution already known to the Israelites. The Sinaitic legislation therefore only gave the force of law to an existing ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S"; "Sabbath", subsection "Origin of the sabbath"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sabbath
"... But keep the Sabbath... because the former is the memorial of the creation..." - Apostolic Constitutions, Book VII (7), section XXIII (23), by Philip Schaff; ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, and Liturgies; page 692 (PDF 712) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf
"... Therefore let the philosophers, who enumerate thousands of ages from the beginning of the world, know that the six thousandth year is not yet completed, and that when this number is completed the consummation must take place, and the condition of human affairs be remodelled for the better, the proof of which must first be related, that the matter itself may be plain. God completed the world and this admirable work of nature in the space of six days, as is contained in the secrets of Holy Scripture, and consecrated the seventh day, on which He had rested from His works. But this is the Sabbath-day, which in the language of the Hebrews received its name from the number, [1385] whence the seventh is the legitimate and complete number. For there are seven days, by the revolutions of which in order the circles of years are made up; and there are seven stars which do not set, and seven luminaries which are called planets, [1386] whose differing and unequal movements are believed to cause the varieties of circumstances and times. [1387]
Therefore, since all the works of God were completed in six days, the world must continue in its present state through six ages, that is, six thousand years. For the great day of God is limited by a circle of a thousand years, as the prophet shows, who says [1388] “In Thy sight, O Lord, a thousand years are as one day.” And as God laboured during those six days in creating such great works, so His religion and truth must labour during these six thousand years, while wickedness prevails and bears rule. And again, since God, having finished His works, rested the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years; and there must be tranquillity and rest from the labours which the world now has long endured. But how that will come to pass I will explain in its order. We have often said that lesser things and things of small importance are figures and previous shadowings forth of great things; as this day of ours, which is bounded by the rising and the setting of the sun, is a representation [1389] [1389. Ps. xc. 4; see also 2 Pet. iii. 8.] of that great day to which the circuit of a thousand years affixes its limits. [1390] ..." - Apostolic Constitutions, Book VII (7), Chapter XIV (14) - Of the First and Last Times of the World, by Philip Schaff; ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, and Liturgies; pages 317-318 (PDF 337-338) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf
Rome's statements and picture of the "mater eccles" "Lateran" are "rubbish"?
The point of the post, was to see if you desired to compare the two women:
[1] Ellen G White, to
[2] the "mater eccles." of Romanism
[2] the "mater eccles." of Romanism
I was attacked on the point of posting material from the 'woman' Sister White, when Roman Catholics continually post page after page of material from Roman Catholic teachings.
Thus two 'women' are involved. I am asking if you are unafraid to compare the two women and their materials. I do not fear to compare. What about you?
No, just being actually correct and technical, which for some reason, you do not desire to be at this particular point. There is nothing "diversionary" about it. Roman Catholicism in it's own encyclopedia acknowledges my point, why then do you not?
"The seventh day of the week among the Hebrews, the day being counted from sunset to sunset, that is, from Friday evening to Saturday evening. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S"; "Sabbath", just above subsection "Prescriptions concerning the sabbath"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sabbath
The "sabbath" doesn't "fall" "on the 7th Day" any more than it does for the differing day "SATURDAY" (sic). The 7th day is the sabbath, and "SATURDAY" is not. It is quite that simple.
Some might use "SATURDAY" in general broad terms when speaking with the heathen/uncircumcised in heart when they refer to the 7th day, but when they do so, they are not actually equating "SATURDAY" with the "Sabbath" proper. They are simply making it simple for people to understand a general timeframe, since most of those people do not understand scriptural time, seasons, days and years.
So, again, No, the 7th day of scripture is not in actuality "SATURDAY", at all, though some use that term in a general sense with outsiders who do not understand scriptural things.
Actual "diversionary tactics" would be to simply call something a "diversionary tactic" without evidence, and not address the point being made by calling it a name.
I have provided several posts, in which to engage your mind and thought processes, even from Roman Catholic sources (that contain Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur sanctions) but so far, all I am getting in return are the very thing I am being accused of.
If I may set one thing straight? I did not "cut-and-paste" from a single "SDA site". I am producing my own written and studied material, which I happen to have on file, for easy access. Even as God commanded scribes to copy down material, so do I keep record of my own personal studies (of which there are literally (not to boast at all) thousands of pages).
Simply to call something a "cut-and-paste" is not actually to address the point, and is simply a logical fallacy to try to reduce the information presented to that of unworthy consideration, simply by mis-labelling it or calling it a derogatory sounding name.
Even if the material was a 'cut-and-paste" from an "SDA site" (again none of it is) that would not give one iota less importance to the information thus shared in that fashion. Even professional debaters, like Karl Keating, etc, will use 'prepared' materials, and rely upon external citations and sources, even as those did with Luther at Leipzig, and those before him, as with Augustine with the Manicheans. Simply utilizing modern day technology, as computers, files, etc is simply an updated version of the old format. Am I to complain when reading the material of 'Francis' in Laudato Si, or Fratelli Tuti, the many redundant 'sources', and simply call it a 'copy-and-paste' from earlier Catholic works and papal materials, like
when whole sections and ideas of Rerum Novarum, &c, exist therein?
Should I simply turn the same argument that you are presently using to weigh Roman Catholic materials?
I am accused of "cut-and-paste jobs" and what do I find in the very post you gave?
Yet, even so, to merely acknowledge that what you have presented is indeed a "cut-and-paste" doesn't actually address the materials, though I have already addressed some of those materials in another place.
[1] Where does the Bible say...
As for the others, they are way too late to have any bearing on the matter. The best sources, is the earliest sources, which is the Gospels and Epistles themselves as found in the NT. Surely, you would agree that both Peter and Paul trump material that is some 200-300 years later?
However, if you still want to accept those sources (200-300 years later), why do you not accept these sources also?
"... But keep the Sabbath, ... because the former is the memorial of the creation, ..." - Apostolic Constitutions, Book VII (7), section XXIII (23), by Philip Schaff; ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries: Lactantius, Venantius, Asterius, Victorinus, Dionysius, Apostolic Teaching and Constitutions, Homily, and Liturgies; page 692 (PDF 712) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf
"... The people of Constantinople, and of several other cities, assemble together on the sabbath, as well as on the next day; which custom is never observed at Rome, or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usages established elsewhere, the people meet together on sabbath evenings; and although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries. ..." - Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus (aka: "Sozomen"); The Ecclesiastical History of Sozomen, comprising a History of the Church, from A.D. 324 to A.D. 440; translated from the Greek: without a memoir of the Author; also The Ecclesiastical History of Philostorgus, as epitomised by Photius, Patriarch of Constantinople.; translated by Edward Walford, M.A.; late scholar of Balliol College, Oxford.; London: Henry G. Bohn, York Street, Covent Garden. MDCCCLV (1855). page 344 (PDF 364) - The Ecclesiastical History Of Sozomen 1855
"... For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, [1] yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this. The Egyptians in the neighbourhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebais, hold their religious meetings on the sabbath ..." - Socrates Scholasticus; The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, surnamed Scholasticus, or the Advocate., comprising a History of the Church in Seven Books, from the accession of Constantine, A.D. 305, to the 38th Year of Theodosius II., including A period of 140 years.; translated from the Greek: with some account of the Author, and notes selected from Valesius.; London: Henry G. Bohn, York Street, Covent Garden. MDCCCLIII (1853).; page 289-290 (PDF 313-314) - The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, Surnamed Scholasticus, Or the Advocate: Comprising a ...
The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, Surnamed Scholasticus, Or the Advocate: Comprising a ...
“... Chapter 38 of the Ethiopian Didascalia commands the observance of both the Sabbath and Sunday. Gregory of Nyssa, who stands in great repute among Ethiopians, argued:
"With what eyes do you regard the Lord's Day, you who have desecrated the Sabbath? Do you know that these two days are related, that if you wrong one of them, you will stumble against the other?" ...” - Source: "The Judaic Spirit of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church: A Case Study in Religious Acculturation" by John T. Pawlikowski (https://rapidshare.com/files/4579282...Spirit_EOC.pdf) - http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/...?topic=35363.0
… At first, early Jewish Christians continued to observe Sabbath regulations and to worship on the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42-44; 18:1-4). … Jesus rose on a Sunday. ...
… For Orthodox Christians, Saturday is still the Sabbath, the day on which the Church especially remembers the departed, since Christ rested in the tomb on Great and Holy Saturday. … the seventh day (when God rested from His six days of creation) … ” [Section, The Sabbath Day ...] - The Sabbath Day
"... [Page 22] Eastern Christianity; Page 67. Eastern Orthodox Church distinguishes between "the Sabbath" (Saturday) ... continue to play a special role for the faithful. Many parishes and monstaries will serve the Divine Liturgy on both Saturday morning and Sunday morning. The church never allows strict fasting on any Saturday (except Holy Saturday) or Sunday. During Great Lent, when the celebration of the Liturgy is forbidden on weekdays, there is always Liturgy on Saturday as well as Sunday. The church also has a special cycle of Bible Readings (Epistle and Gospel) for Saturdays and Sundays which is different from the cycle of readings allotted to weekdays. ...
... In part, the reason Orthodox Christians continue to celebrate Saturday as the Sabbath is because of its role in the history of salvation: it was on a Saturday that Jesus "rested" in the tomb after his work on the cross. For this reason, also, Saturday is a day for general commemoration of the departed, and special requiem hymns are often chanted on this day.
The Ethiopian Orthodox church (part of the Oriental Orthodox communion, having about 40 million members) observes both Saturday and Sunday ... " [Page 22]- http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/media...ts/sabbath.pdf
[English Translation (Apostolic Constitutions); Roman Catholic] “XXXVI. Have before your eyes the fear of God, and always remember the ten commandments of God—to love the one and only Lord God with all your strength; to give no heed to idols, or any other beings, as being lifeless gods, or irrational beings or dæmons. Consider the manifold workmanship of God, which received its beginning through Christ. You shall observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands. Reject every unlawful lust, everything destructive to men, and all anger. Honour your parents, as the authors of your being. Love your neighbour as yourself. ...” - CHURCH FATHERS: Apostolic Constitutions, Book II
"... The people of Constantinople, and of several other cities, assemble together on the sabbath, as well as on the next day; which custom is never observed at Rome, or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usages established elsewhere, the people meet together on sabbath evenings; and although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries. ..." - Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus (aka: "Sozomen"); The Ecclesiastical History of Sozomen, comprising a History of the Church, from A.D. 324 to A.D. 440; translated from the Greek: without a memoir of the Author; also The Ecclesiastical History of Philostorgus, as epitomised by Photius, Patriarch of Constantinople.; translated by Edward Walford, M.A.; late scholar of Balliol College, Oxford.; London: Henry G. Bohn, York Street, Covent Garden. MDCCCLV (1855). page 344 (PDF 364) - The Ecclesiastical History Of Sozomen 1855
See also Salaminius Hermias Sozomenus (aka: "Sozomen"); The Ecclesiastical History of Sozomen, comprising a History of the Church, from A.D. 323 to A.D. 425., translated from the Greek.; Revised by Chester D. Hartranft, Hartford Theological Seminary. (page 639-640 (PDF 315-316)) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....,_The_Ecclesiastical_History_[Schaff],_EN.pdf
"... For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, [1] yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this. The Egyptians in the neighbourhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebais, hold their religious meetings on the sabbath ..." - Socrates Scholasticus; The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, surnamed Scholasticus, or the Advocate., comprising a History of the Church in Seven Books, from the accession of Constantine, A.D. 305, to the 38th Year of Theodosius II., including A period of 140 years.; translated from the Greek: with some account of the Author, and notes selected from Valesius.; London: Henry G. Bohn, York Street, Covent Garden. MDCCCLIII (1853).; page 289-290 (PDF 313-314) - The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, Surnamed Scholasticus, Or the Advocate: Comprising a ...
The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates, Surnamed Scholasticus, Or the Advocate: Comprising a ...
See also Socrates Scholasticus - Historia ecclesiastica - The Ecclesiastical History of Socrates Scholasticus., Revised, with Notes, byThe Rev. A.C. Zenos, D.D.; Professor of New TEstament exegesis in the theological seminary at Hartford, Conn.; page 244 (PDF 244) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/03d/0380-0440,_Socrates_Scholasticus,_Historia_ecclesiastica_[Schaff],_EN.pdf
“... Chapter 38 of the Ethiopian Didascalia commands the observance of both the Sabbath and Sunday. Gregory of Nyssa, who stands in great repute among Ethiopians, argued:
"With what eyes do you regard the Lord's Day, you who have desecrated the Sabbath? Do you know that these two days are related, that if you wrong one of them, you will stumble against the other?" ...” - Source: "The Judaic Spirit of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church: A Case Study in Religious Acculturation" by John T. Pawlikowski (https://rapidshare.com/files/4579282...Spirit_EOC.pdf) - http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/...?topic=35363.0
… At first, early Jewish Christians continued to observe Sabbath regulations and to worship on the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42-44; 18:1-4). … Jesus rose on a Sunday. ...
… For Orthodox Christians, Saturday is still the Sabbath, the day on which the Church especially remembers the departed, since Christ rested in the tomb on Great and Holy Saturday. … the seventh day (when God rested from His six days of creation) … ” [Section, The Sabbath Day ...] - The Sabbath Day
"... [Page 22] Eastern Christianity; Page 67. Eastern Orthodox Church distinguishes between "the Sabbath" (Saturday) ... continue to play a special role for the faithful. Many parishes and monstaries will serve the Divine Liturgy on both Saturday morning and Sunday morning. The church never allows strict fasting on any Saturday (except Holy Saturday) or Sunday. During Great Lent, when the celebration of the Liturgy is forbidden on weekdays, there is always Liturgy on Saturday as well as Sunday. The church also has a special cycle of Bible Readings (Epistle and Gospel) for Saturdays and Sundays which is different from the cycle of readings allotted to weekdays. ...
... In part, the reason Orthodox Christians continue to celebrate Saturday as the Sabbath is because of its role in the history of salvation: it was on a Saturday that Jesus "rested" in the tomb after his work on the cross. For this reason, also, Saturday is a day for general commemoration of the departed, and special requiem hymns are often chanted on this day.
The Ethiopian Orthodox church (part of the Oriental Orthodox communion, having about 40 million members) observes both Saturday and Sunday ... " [Page 22]- http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/media...ts/sabbath.pdf
[English Translation (Apostolic Constitutions); Roman Catholic] “XXXVI. Have before your eyes the fear of God, and always remember the ten commandments of God—to love the one and only Lord God with all your strength; to give no heed to idols, or any other beings, as being lifeless gods, or irrational beings or dæmons. Consider the manifold workmanship of God, which received its beginning through Christ. You shall observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands. Reject every unlawful lust, everything destructive to men, and all anger. Honour your parents, as the authors of your being. Love your neighbour as yourself. ...” - CHURCH FATHERS: Apostolic Constitutions, Book II
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,668
- 3,593
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
THANK YOU for proving my point.
Genesis is very specific as to what a "Day" is.
Gen. 1:3-5 tells us explicitly that a "Day" is the "the LIGHT" and "the DARKNESS" is called "Night".
God rested on the SEVENTH Day - NOT on the sunset of the SIXTH day to the sunset of the SEVENTH.
This proves that the "Seventh Day" spoken of in Genesis is NOT the same as the "Sabbath" spoken of in Exodus.
The Sabbath was made for MAN (Exod. 16:23, Mark 2:27).
People in general might be wondering, "Why all of this talk about the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD thy God", between Roman Catholics and Seventh-day Adventists? The same issue was raised at the Council of Trent, for it is the very argument for Sola Scriptura, vs Tradition. The entire argument hung upon this very point. So it is not a going away from the OP, but discussing the very heart of it.
I personally think you have bumped your head, and need to have some rest and lie down if you think what I shared proves such a thing.
A scriptural "day", is indeed compromised of two parts, a night and day:
Genesis 1:5 "... And the evening and the morning were the first day."
Genesis 1:8 "... And the evening and the morning were the second day."
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 - "... And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
Thus in days 1-6 "the evening and the morning" constitute a day, even as Jesus stated:
Joh_11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
Notice that there are "twelve hours in the day", and "day" in this instance is defined as "see the light of this world", which is the Sun, since Christ Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness in Malachi 4:2. Thus there are also "twelve hours" in the "dark" part of the "day", since the ways of God are "equal" (Ezekiel 18:25,29). The 24 Elders also correspond to this in Heaven also, but that is another study.
Thus so too the Sabbath, begins in darkness, moves into the light portion and ends in darkness, just as Jesus was placed into the tomb as the sun was about to set and rested the whole period of the sabbath (in spite of what G.E. postulates).
Genesis 1:1-3 begins in night/darkness, and light comes afterward. Thus the next day begins with darkness, followed by light.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
I personally think you have bumped your head, and need to have some rest and lie down if you think what I shared proves such a thing.
Scripture [KJB] delineates when the Day [time] ends and when the Night [time] begins, and what constitutes a standard [whole] Day.
Genesis 1:5 KJB - And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 KJB - And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 KJB - And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:14 KJB - And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Genesis 1:15 KJB - And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:16 KJB - And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Genesis 1:17 KJB - And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Genesis 1:18 KJB - And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:19 KJB - And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 KJB - And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 KJB - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis 15:12 KJB - And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
Genesis 15:17 KJB - And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
Exodus 17:12 KJB - But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.
Deuteronomy 16:4 KJB - And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.
Deuteronomy 16:6 KJB - But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 16:7 KJB - And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
Joshua 10:26 KJB - And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.
Joshua 10:27 KJB - And it came to pass at the time of the going down of the sun, that Joshua commanded, and they took them down off the trees, and cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid, and laid great stones in the cave's mouth, which remain until this very day.
Judges 19:9 KJB - And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.
Judges 19:25 KJB - But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.
1 Kings 22:35 KJB - And the battle increased that day: and the king was stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians, and died at even: and the blood ran out of the wound into the midst of the chariot.
1 Kings 22:36 KJB - And there went a proclamation throughout the host about the going down of the sun, saying, Every man to his city, and every man to his own country.
2 Chronicles 18:34 KJB - And the battle increased that day: howbeit the king of Israel stayed himself up in his chariot against the Syrians until the even: and about the time of the sun going down he died.
Job 38:12 KJB - Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
Psalms 104:19 KJB - He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.
Psalms 104:20 KJB - Thou makest darkness, and it is night: wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth.
Psalms 104:21 KJB - The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God.
Psalms 104:22 KJB - The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens.
Psalms 104:23 KJB - Man goeth forth unto his work and to his labour until the evening.
Daniel 6:14 KJB - Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him: and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him.
Daniel 6:18 KJB - Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting: neither were instruments of musick brought before him: and his sleep went from him.
Daniel 6:19 KJB - Then the king arose very early in the morning, and went in haste unto the den of lions.
Malachi 4:2 KJB - But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
I personally think you have bumped your head, and need to have some rest and lie down if you think what I shared proves such a thing.
See “the Sun of righteousness arise”:
Psalms 90:4 KJB - For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Psalms 90:4 KJB - For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Side note: Once Adam sinned, the world became darkness, and there are 4 watches in the night time [Matthew 14:25; Mark 6:48 KJB], and thus each “watch in the night”, was literally 1,000 years of darkness, totaling 4,000 years, and then the Sun of Righteousness, Jesus Christ, came, right on time. In fact, Peter quotes this verse in 2 Peter 3:8 KJB. For more on this, ask for the 7,000 year Plan of Redemption in Genesis 1 KJB. See John 1:1-18, 3:16-21, 8:12, 12:46; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6 and connect to Genesis 1:1-5, 3:15; Galatians 3:16; John 1:1-18 KJB.
Mark 1:32 KJB - And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
Luke 1:78 KJB - Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
Luke 1:79 KJB - To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
Therefore, it is seen that when the “sun did set”, that this is called the beginning of the “even[ing]”, wherein is “darkness”, and at the “dayspring”, when the “day began to spring”, when “the sun ariseth”, and giveth “light”, it is the “day” time.
How many hours are there in a standard “day”, wherein there is both “evening”, “night” [dark] followed by “morning”, “day” [light]?
John 11:9 KJB - Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
John 11:01 KJB - But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
John 11:01 KJB - But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
Jesus said that there are normally “twelve hours” in the standard “day” [“the light”, the “sun”] time, which then means, automatically, that there are “twelve hours”, also, for the “night” time, as per God's very character, whose ways are “equal”, balanced [Leviticus 19:36; Job 6:2, 31:6, 32:10; Psalms 62:9; Proverbs 11:1, 16:11, 20:23; Isaiah 40:12,15, 46:6; Ezekiel 5:1, 45:10; Daniel 5:27; Hosea 12:7; Amos 8:5; Micah 6:11; Revelation 6:5 KJB]:
Ezekiel 18:25 KJB - Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
Ezekiel 18:29 KJB - Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Ezekiel 18:29 KJB - Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
This “division” [for God rightly divides [2 Timothy 2:15 KJB]] of “night” and “day” times into “twelve hours” each, was from the beginning, for God separated the “light” from the “darkness” in these two “equal” parts:
Genesis 1:3 KJB - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 KJB - And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 KJB - And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:4 KJB - And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 KJB - And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Thus there are 24 hours [even as there are 12 Patriarchal rulers in the OT, the time of Shadows/Types [Moon, Night], 12 Apostles in the NT, the time of the Day Star/Antitype [Sun, Day], and also there are 24 Elders upon their Thrones in the 3rd Heaven, Paradise – Heavenly Eden, itself] in a “day”, beginning with evening followed by morning.
Even the Prophecy of Daniel 8:13-14 is given as "evening mornings", "erev boquer", and in vs 26, it states that these are "days".
Similar threads
