Where does the Bible say...

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WaterSong

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Scripture says: Let no one pass judgment on you in questions or with regard to a Sabbath. So please stop judging us Christians who join together on the Lords Day!

According to Scripture and 1st century historical writings Christians gathered on the Lords Day (Sunday).

Sabbatarianism was the creation of the 16th century Scottish and English Reformers, especially John Knox.

I am thankful that you are least gathering with your fellow believers. It makes me sad that you have chosen to practice what John Knox tells you to practice instead of practicing what Christians have practiced for 2,000 years.

Mary
Jesus practiced the Sabbath! As did all the Apostles even after he had ascended. And on the Sabbath day God decreed.
John Knox? Not even close.

Sabbatarians, as pagans like to call those who honor God's Sabbath day, are not obligated to John Knox! Sabbath keepers! Are obligated to God. And Jesus showed us how to honor the Sabbath. That's why he did the Lords work on the day of rest and the Pharisees thought him worthy of death! Because those were their rules! Not God's!


None is so blind as that one which refuses to see. You don't spend time in Purgatory for casting off the yoke and opening your eyes.
You will spend time in Purgatory if you stay blind and love the yoke.
Don't hate Christians who love you enough to speak truth and challenge you to seek it for yourself.

You've already ignored the facts your own church members have laid down in history in writing! Particularly as pertains to the church changing Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday! Because they believe they have that right!


I understand you are unable to face the facts of your church history. How devastating it would be to be one raised in the faith, sprinkled with water as a babe according to their infant baptism tradition, led to believe in their Catechism, study, say the rosary, confess to a priest seemingly anonymously when he can see you through the screen from his side, as you can him, live your whooollle life following the order of things the church led you to accept as truth, only to think when you die you won't go to heaven.

After alllllll that, for however many years or decades, you instead enter a place God never created. Nor Jesus preached about. Purgatory!

Never asking yourself, if Jesus died to take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross, and I am saved by grace through faith, that my church tells me isn't enough to save my soul because I can do something to lose that salvation, which isn't true, why do I have to be purified of residual "stuff" that I'm led to believe remains upon my soul after life and before I am deemed worthy of entering heaven?

And why is it that people I know who suffer in this life and in order to get through their strife, "offer it up to the poor souls in Purgatory....". That evocation somehow imagined to help alleviate the time those poor souls have remaining them there. Because that living persons suffering helps cleanse the "stuff" those poor souls are hoping to rid themselves of.

Unless! Any one of those poor souls has a rich benefactor here on earth.
Then, what is falsely claimed to no longer be in practice, Indulgences, can be paid to the church, money of course, or precious metals or stone "offerings", so as to insure that Indulgence/offering then pays/paves the way for a poor soul in Purgatory to enjoy early release.

It's like parole and commutation of sentence as would occur for the living in prison on earth, but for the lucky Catholic dead.

Christians go to Heaven!

All that belief! All that promise of what awaits when you're dead. And only to realize, if you but look for the facts the church forbids you to seek, the truth could set you free.
But you can't.
Because the church forbids.
Excommunication!
Bad!

Make no mistake. I don't dislike the Catholic. I'm married to one and have been for decades. I feel sorry and pity a people who are brainwashed from birth, unless one chooses to convert as an adult, to believe a dogma/doctrine that is pagan, satanic, egocentric, materialistic, and corrupt.
That's not an insult to the indoctrinated. That's a reality the Roman's conjured in order to insure their intention, and at the time, was darn close to reality, to rule the whole world eternally, was accomplished! And the vehicle for their pursuit was to venerate an itinerant Jewish rabbi and his teachings nearly 600 years after they'd put him to death on the cross for being an itinerant Jewish rabbi blaspheming, per the Jews, God.

Yes, as you said in a different post, we're done here.
Open your eyes!
Dare to think outside the church!

GOD IS LOVE!
NOT Roman Catholic.
 
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WaterSong

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Nope, I didn't say it the first time.......Does this look familiar: "If you're Catholic you listen to men who teach you the Sabbath is no longer applicable."

YOU said that....I just took what YOU said and changed a few words so that my argument is the same as your argument.
Post 133. I'm aware what I said. I'm also aware that you're repeating your own words, rewording mine is irrelevant to that fact, and now for the third time!

Why don't you pay/pray attention to the excerpts from the patriarchs of your own church? Who STATE the church changed the Sabbath of its own volition, not that of God, and why they did so?

No Jew in Jesus' day honored the Sabbath on Sunday.
 

ReChoired

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Eve was ALWAYS Eve
Actually no. She wasn't called "Eve" until she became "the mother of all living (meaning of the faith, she believed in God's promise; Genesis 3:15, 4:1)", for that is what the name "Eve" means:

Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.​

Before that, she was called "woman", and "wife".
 
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ReChoired

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Saturday wasn't always the Sabbath.
"Saturday" was, and is, never the "Sabbath". The two are differing times, by differing entities. Saturday, named after the planetary tutelary deity, Saturn, is based in Roman chronology, midnight to midnight, whereas the Sabbath is centered in God's finished work from the foundation of the world, the 7th day, which is from "even to even" (sunset to sunset). The two time frames overlap that is for certain, but let us not ever think the two are the same. I am speaking technically.
 
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WaterSong

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Not only on forums like this, but on so called christian web sites, people are spreading lies about the Catholic Church. I want others to hear the truth.
You present as one who wants people to read and concede to what you hold as truth. Otherwise, you feel led to demean and attempt to insult them.
Why is that?
 

ReChoired

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This goes back to what Jesus told the Pharisees - the Sabbath was made for MAN - NOT man for the Sabbath (Mark 2:27).
The 7th day - the Day of the Lord's rest BECAME the Sabbath under the Law - for MAN.
The sabbath existed before Moses, and mankind were keeping it before Moses, which is why God said:

Exo_16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Context? The sabbath, the 7th day. See also 1 Corinthians 10, as it was then, so too for us. Same test, Revelation 14:6-12. Natural to spiritual promised land.

It was also the first thing Moses was to reform in Egypt:

Exo 5:4 And the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens.
Exo 5:5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.
Exo 5:8 And the tale of the bricks, which they did make heretofore, ye shall lay upon them; ye shall not diminish ought thereof: for they be idle; therefore they cry, saying, Let us go and sacrifice to our God.
Exo_5:9 Let there more work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard vain words.​

Joseph was a sabbath keeper (God's spiritual Law always existed), as Jacob/Israel before him, and Isaac before him and Abraham before him ... and Noah, Enoch, Seth, Abel, Adam ("the man" for whom the sabbath was made, Adam the 1st and for Adam the 2nd, if you say the Sabbath was not made for Adam the first, then it wasn't made for Adam the second, and Colossians 1:16 would then be in contradiction).

Gen_26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen_18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.​

Yet, while in Egypt, due to the new Pharaoh and the new work regulations, they had become lax in God's commandments, especially the 4th, and they forgot their Creator/Redeemer, and thus God had to say to them , "Remember ..."

Genesis 2:1-3; (see also, Genesis 18:19, 26:5, &c.)

The sabbath commandment in the beginning with God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Psalms 119:142).
The sabbath commandment with Adam (Mark 2:27; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14).
The sabbath commandment with Enoch (Genesis 5:22,24; Hebrews 11:5; Isaiah 58:13)
The sabbath commandment with Noah (Genesis 6:9; 2 Peter 2:5; Psalms 119:172).
The sabbath commandment with Eber (Genesis 10:21,24-25; Exodus 3:18, 5:3, 7:16).
The sabbath commandment with Abraham (Genesis 17:9, 18:19, 26:5; 2 Chronicles 20:7; Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23; John 15:14).
The sabbath commandment with Isaac (Genesis 17:9, 18:19, 26:5).
The sabbath commandment with Jacob/Israel (Genesis 17:9, 18:19, 26:5, 32:28).
The sabbath commandment with Moses (Exodus 5:4-5;, 16:1-36, 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15, 31:12-18). ...
The sabbath commandment with Jesus (Luke 4:16-19).
The sabbath commandment with the Apostles/Disciples (Acts 1:2, (4:24), 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; Hebrews 3:11,18, 4:1,3,4,5,8,9,10,11; Revelation 1:10, 10:6, 12:17, 14:6-7)
The sabbath commandment with us today (Hebrews 4:9; Revelation 12:17, 14:6-7; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6,8-11).
The sabbath commandment on into eternity (Isaiah 66:23).​

All of whom are of "the man" - Adam:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man (haAdam (the man); האדם).
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.​

And also, all of whom are of "the man" - Adam (2nd/Last) - Jesus.

Adam a type of Christ Jesus - https://archive.org/download/typology-adam/Typology - Adam.pptx
 
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ReChoired

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gathering manna, which prefigures the Eucharist (John 6:28-59).
Ummm, No.

Transubstantiation Unsubstantiated Substantially :P

There is also no word "Eucharist" (aka, 'Hocus Pocus') in scripture, and it isn't even given in the Douay Rheims (Jesuit).

The word “Eucharist” [as Rome defines] is nowhere present in scripture [KJB] used as a name for the “last supper”. The "bread" is always just called "bread" (arton), and even used of common bread found on ship.

There are 3 koine Greek words [interestingly enough are not used once in the so-called LXX [actually a column of Origen's Hexapla]], but they simply mean “thanksgiving”, “thanks”, “thankful” and used in all manner of thanksgiving outside of the “last supper”, even to government officials:

[G2186] “εὐχαριστέω”, “eucharisteō” - 39 times KJB

thanks, 26​

Matthew 15:36, 26:27; Mark 8:6, 14:23; Luke 22:16-17 (2),19; John 6:11,23; Acts 27:35; Romans 14:6 (2), 16:4; 1 Corinthians 10:30, 11:24, 14:17; 2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16, 5:20; Colossians 1:3,12, 3:17; 1 Thessalonians 1:2, 5:18; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Revelation 11:17​

thank, 11

Luke 18:11; John 11:41; Romans 1:8, 7:25; 1 Corinthians 1:4,14, 14:18; Philippians 1:3; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 1:3; Philemon 1:4​

thanked, 1

Acts 28:15​

thankful, 1

Romans 1:21​

[G2187] “εὐχαριστία”, “eucharistia” - 15 times KJB

thanksgiving, 8

2 Corinthians 4:15, 9:11; Colossians 2:6-7 (2), 4:2; 1 Timothy 4:3-4 (2); Revelation 7:12​

thanks, 5

1 Corinthians 14:16; Ephesians 5:4; 1 Thessalonians 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1; Revelation 4:9​

thankfulness, 1

Acts 24:3​

thanksgivings, 1

2 Corinthians 9:12​

[G2188] “εὐχάριστος”, “eucharistos” - 1 times KJB

thankful, 1

Colossians 3:15​

The unleavened bread and unleavened [non-fermented] wine [pure juice of the crushed grape] are never “under the elements” [as Romanism believes] actually the literal body and blood of Jesus in any manner, whatsoever. There are numerous scriptural [KJB] reasons for this, to which if you would like to consider, I will leave with you here below *.

Anyone who even thinks [by faith] that they are drinking literal blood, even if they claim it is under the appearance of “elements”, actually sin, and are destroying themselves. It is supposed to be a “sacrifice”, thus it is dead flesh, dead blood, a dead Christ. The crucifix is a dead Christ on a cross. Consecrated Altars have dead bones in them or under them. Cathedrals [beautiful on the outside] are filled with dead mens bones [inside, literally, stone bone boxes, inlaid in floors, walls], and men walk into the unclean tomb. Men carry around and 'venerate' [which is really worship, consider the words, “dulia”, so-called hyper-dulia, and “latria” in scripture [KJB]] 'relic bones, skulls, blood, etc'. Romanism is the worship of death, not life. It dwells upon a continual 'sacrifice' taking place on earth, by priests who continually need to be replaced by reason of death [Hebrews 7:23 KJB], where the worship of the Dragon is [Revelation 12:9,12,13 KJB], but do not consider what the Living Christ Jesus is now doing even in Heaven for them in the True Tabernacle [Daniel, Acts, Hebrews, Revelation].

The “Eucharist” is, in reality [not harshness, but actuality by definition], necrotic cannibalistic vampirism, see below.

Scripture [KJB] flat for forbids the drinking of blood and eating human flesh, and that would include even thinking that one is doing it literally through what they believe. Scripture also forbids of eating/drinking anything leavened [fermented] with the Last Supper/Passover.
 
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ReChoired

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Remember what I said about Type and Fulfillment?
Type is a shadow, which the spiritual Law of God (Ten Commandments) is never a shadow, but is always Light:

Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​
 

ReChoired

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Well, since you were unable to show me a single passage where Jesus said that Christians are to gather on Saturday I guess this conversation is over!
"Saturday" is not mentioned in the Bible (KJB).

Sabbath is in the Bible (KJB).

However, even after all the texts shown on the matter, perhaps we can shift gears a moment, and speak about a doctrine I do not find in the Bible, namely - purgatory.

If I might ask a personal question, to you, and not to be in any way derogatory, but I am simply asking out of curiosity, as I used to think such things, having grown up Roman Catholic, and my question to you personally is this - Do you think you will personally go to 'purgatory', and if so, how long do you think you will be 'there'? (As I said, I am simply asking a technical question, not saying anything about your personal character, and am curious to know, as I used to think in this manner.)

Another question, in the same fashion, as I used to think on this too, is - Do you personally know of anyone who died that you might think is right now in 'purgatory', and if so, how long do you think they will be there for, and based upon what doctrinal criteria do you think this (if you think this)?

I would be glad to speak with you on this subject, as I am curious about your own position on it.
 

Mungo

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I am not for spreading lies, but for spreading truth.

For instance, in the matters of doctrine and practice, the Roman Catholic church has some pretty 'ugly' (not pretty) history. From the highest positions ('popes', 'Cardinals', 'Archbishops', 'Bishops' and 'Priests', 'Doctors' (scholars)), and all the way down to the laity, even within the monastic and habits, and even those not of 'orders'. From the earliest times to the present. Documentation can be given from Rome's own scholars on the matter (though it may be watered down or white washed in some instances, sometimes even by their own words). The system is replete with theology and practice which breeds sin. All evidence, in any section, may be provided at your request.

You could equally well say exactly the same about Protestant churches. Some of it is true. Some of it is exaggeration. Some of it is lies.
 

Mungo

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You present as one who wants people to read and concede to what you hold as truth. Otherwise, you feel led to demean and attempt to insult them.
Why is that?

Why do you insult and demean Catholics so much?
 

Addy

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Jesus gave authority to his Church - the catholic Church.
Authority that Protestant Churches do not possess.

and therein lies my point.... Catholics believe a great many things that non-Catholics DON'T believe... therefore it is fruitless
to come into a thread to try and "defend" your beliefs to those who don't agree... The Catholics believe they are the ONE true church...
and that as you say... Jesus gave authority to the Catholic church ( something that protestant churches do not possess )...

The playing field is unequal from that point on... How is it that you expect NON CATHOLICS to come into agreement with you on matters of doctrine and beliefs... when right off the bat... you presume yourself to be part of a SUPERIOR organization?

I don't see watersong doing any demeaning... she is supporting her claims in a respectful manner. Anyways... my point has now been proven.
Some come on here to cause strife.... some come on here to support and stick up for their beliefs... and some just seem to like to rebuke others in a nasty way. I believe you are feeling hurt and/or offence from some of the things you are reading... and that is understandable... but honestly... What do you expect?? This is not a Catholic site...

When you go to mass... you feel you are with like-minded believers... NO one attacks you or disagrees with you because you all believe in and support the same doctrine.... Would you ever consider going to a Calvinist church for your Sunday church service?? I think not.... so it is no different here in the forums.... You are trying to defend a faith that is not shared here by many others.... The fact that the Catholic church makes claims that "elevate" them to superior over other Christians is a problem in itself.

Anyways... this started as my two cents worth on Wednesday and has now carried over to 25 cents worth by Friday.... LOL

Be at Peace.
 

Entanglement

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Where does the Bible say the Bible is the final authority?
Did anyone post this verse yet?
1 Corinthians 4:6
6Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.
 

ReChoired

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You could equally well say exactly the same about Protestant churches. Some of it is true. Some of it is exaggeration. Some of it is lies.
Sure. I have a dislike for Calvinism in several points, though not all. Most 'protestant' Churches today do nothing of the sort ('protest'), and have already acquiesced to Rome.

Romanism and Lutherans - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

Romanism and Anglicans - 'Catholic' confession is good for the soul - says Archbishop of Canterbury

Romanism and Waldenses - Pope Francis Asks Forgiveness For Catholic Church's Persecution Of Waldensians | HuffPost

Romanism and Evangelicals [Tony Palmer, Kenneth Copeland, etc] - Roman Catholics Evangelicals Tony Palmer - Yahoo Canada Search Results

Romanism and State [Jerry Brown [Jesuit], etc] - Jerry Brown Jesuit - Yahoo Canada Search Results

"...Romanism is now regarded by Protestants with far greater favor than in former years. In those countries where Catholicism is not in the ascendancy, and the papists are taking a conciliatory course in order to gain influence, there is an increasing indifference concerning the doctrines that separate the reformed churches from the papal hierarchy; the opinion is gaining ground that, after all, we do not differ so widely upon vital points as has been supposed, and that a little concession on our part will bring us into a better understanding with Rome. The time was when Protestants placed a high value upon the liberty of conscience which had been so dearly purchased. They taught their children to abhor popery and held that to seek harmony with Rome would be disloyalty to God. But how widely different are the sentiments now expressed!

The defenders of the papacy declare that the church has been maligned, and the Protestant world are inclined to accept the statement. Many urge that it is unjust to judge the church of today by the abominations and absurdities that marked her reign during the centuries of ignorance and darkness. They excuse her horrible cruelty as the result of the barbarism of the times and plead that the influence of modern civilization has changed her sentiments. ..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White, page 563; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

"...Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage in their acceptance of the false sabbath and that they are preparing to enforce it by the very means which she herself employed in bygone days. Those who reject the light of truth will yet seek the aid of this self-styled infallible power to exalt an institution that originated with her. How readily she will come to the help of Protestants in this work it is not difficult to conjecture. Who understands better than the papal leaders how to deal with those who are disobedient to the church?

The Roman Catholic Church, with all its ramifications throughout the world, forms one vast organization under the control, and designed to serve the interests, of the papal see. Its millions of communicants, in every country on the globe, are instructed to hold themselves as bound in allegiance to the pope. Whatever their nationality or their government, they are to regard the authority of the church as above all other. Though they may take the oath pledging their loyalty to the state, yet back of this lies the vow of obedience to Rome, absolving them from every pledge inimical to her interests.

History testifies of her artful and persistent efforts to insinuate herself into the affairs of nations; and having gained a foothold, to further her own aims, even at the ruin of princes and people. In the year 1204, Pope Innocent III extracted from Peter II, king of Arragon, the following extraordinary oath: “I, Peter, king of Arragonians, profess and promise to be ever faithful and obedient to my lord, Pope Innocent, to his Catholic successors, and the Roman Church, and faithfully to preserve my kingdom in his obedience, defending the Catholic faith, and persecuting heretical pravity.”—John Dowling, The History of Romanism, b. 5, ch. 6, sec.

55. This is in harmony with the claims regarding the power of the Roman pontiff “that it is lawful for him to depose emperors” and “that he can absolve subjects from their allegiance to unrighteous rulers.”—Mosheim, b. 3, cent. 11, pt. 2, ch. 2, sec. 9, note 17. (See also Appendix note for page 447.)

And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured.

God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. ..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 580-581; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

"...Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.

As spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.

The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves and are ready to join with them, and Satan determines to unite them in one body and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 588; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")
 

Mungo

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Sure. I have a dislike for Calvinism in several points, though not all. Most 'protestant' Churches today do nothing of the sort ('protest'), and have already acquiesced to Rome.

Romanism and Lutherans - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

Romanism and Anglicans - 'Catholic' confession is good for the soul - says Archbishop of Canterbury

Romanism and Waldenses - Pope Francis Asks Forgiveness For Catholic Church's Persecution Of Waldensians | HuffPost

Romanism and Evangelicals [Tony Palmer, Kenneth Copeland, etc] - Roman Catholics Evangelicals Tony Palmer - Yahoo Canada Search Results

Romanism and State [Jerry Brown [Jesuit], etc] - Jerry Brown Jesuit - Yahoo Canada Search Results

"...Romanism is now regarded by Protestants with far greater favor than in former years. In those countries where Catholicism is not in the ascendancy, and the papists are taking a conciliatory course in order to gain influence, there is an increasing indifference concerning the doctrines that separate the reformed churches from the papal hierarchy; the opinion is gaining ground that, after all, we do not differ so widely upon vital points as has been supposed, and that a little concession on our part will bring us into a better understanding with Rome. The time was when Protestants placed a high value upon the liberty of conscience which had been so dearly purchased. They taught their children to abhor popery and held that to seek harmony with Rome would be disloyalty to God. But how widely different are the sentiments now expressed!

The defenders of the papacy declare that the church has been maligned, and the Protestant world are inclined to accept the statement. Many urge that it is unjust to judge the church of today by the abominations and absurdities that marked her reign during the centuries of ignorance and darkness. They excuse her horrible cruelty as the result of the barbarism of the times and plead that the influence of modern civilization has changed her sentiments. ..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White, page 563; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

"...Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage in their acceptance of the false sabbath and that they are preparing to enforce it by the very means which she herself employed in bygone days. Those who reject the light of truth will yet seek the aid of this self-styled infallible power to exalt an institution that originated with her. How readily she will come to the help of Protestants in this work it is not difficult to conjecture. Who understands better than the papal leaders how to deal with those who are disobedient to the church?

The Roman Catholic Church, with all its ramifications throughout the world, forms one vast organization under the control, and designed to serve the interests, of the papal see. Its millions of communicants, in every country on the globe, are instructed to hold themselves as bound in allegiance to the pope. Whatever their nationality or their government, they are to regard the authority of the church as above all other. Though they may take the oath pledging their loyalty to the state, yet back of this lies the vow of obedience to Rome, absolving them from every pledge inimical to her interests.

History testifies of her artful and persistent efforts to insinuate herself into the affairs of nations; and having gained a foothold, to further her own aims, even at the ruin of princes and people. In the year 1204, Pope Innocent III extracted from Peter II, king of Arragon, the following extraordinary oath: “I, Peter, king of Arragonians, profess and promise to be ever faithful and obedient to my lord, Pope Innocent, to his Catholic successors, and the Roman Church, and faithfully to preserve my kingdom in his obedience, defending the Catholic faith, and persecuting heretical pravity.”—John Dowling, The History of Romanism, b. 5, ch. 6, sec.

55. This is in harmony with the claims regarding the power of the Roman pontiff “that it is lawful for him to depose emperors” and “that he can absolve subjects from their allegiance to unrighteous rulers.”—Mosheim, b. 3, cent. 11, pt. 2, ch. 2, sec. 9, note 17. (See also Appendix note for page 447.)

And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured.

God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. ..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 580-581; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

"...Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.

As spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.

The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves and are ready to join with them, and Satan determines to unite them in one body and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 588; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")
Just posting a lot of garbage from Ellen White just demonsrates your paucity of intellect.
 

Mungo

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Did anyone post this verse yet?
1 Corinthians 4:6
6Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

If you want an answer to that here it is: Going Beyond