Some Questions About Mary

[Mungo]

Oh right. So each and every Catholic person throughout the world has recognised that they are sinners, made that one-off personal commitment to Jesus and received the Holy Spirit into their lives. I don't think so. There are Catholics in my own family who are not born-again. It's just another of the Catholic church's lies to keep their people oppressed.

Catholics are born again the Biblical way not via your unbiblical "just invite Jesus into your heart" way.
We do it God's way not using a man made method.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Okay ,see my initial response was to the question of the OP ,not the side bar, so if you want to discuss if Mary remained a virgin ,start a new thread..

Why are you afraid to respond to my post #122??

There is NO need to start a new thread as I dealt DIRECTLY with the OP, which asked the following question:
"2. Why was she a virgin and did she have to be for the prophecy to come true? (The Bible states that she had other children though.)"

So, if you can't respond - just say so and we'll move on from there . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

OK I see your point. So then this leads me to the question of this: Why does God require Mary to remain a virgin? Why not bless her and her husband with children after Jesus is born? What in your belief says God does not want to bless them in that way?

Read post #122 and we'll talk . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Joseph had intimate relations with Mary after Jesus was born. He was her husband, what else would you expect?!

Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not (this means he did not have relations with her) TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.

Jesus' unbelieving neighbors were stupefied by His power because they knew His whole family--His mother, Joseph, His SISTERS, and His BROTHERS. When these unbelievers referred to Jesus' brothers and sisters they were in no wise be referring to His disciples. It is obvious that they were talking about His physical family who they all knew and grew up with.

Mark 6:3 Is not this [referring to Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not HIS SISTERS here with us? And they were offended at him.

John's gospel records a fulfilled prophesy from the book of Psalms--in it, Jesus tells us He has brothers and sisters.

John 2:17, And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

Why was He an alien to His mother's children? Jesus' brothers did not believe in Him.

John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.

The apostle Paul saw the Lord Jesus' half-brother James.

Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

The Catholic religion says the word translated "brother" should be "cousin". Wrong again. The word "cousin" is clearly found in the Scripture and it means--you've got it--cousin!

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. Luke 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

WHY do you insist on repeating arguments that have ALREADY been explained and/or debunked??
For the argument about the "brethren of Jesus" - see my post #84 and get back to me on that.

As for Matt. 1:25 - this does NOT prove that Mary and Joseph had marital relations. Only a novice, who has opened the Bible for the FIRST time might see this - but ANYBODY who knows the Word of God can see that this is simply explaining her virginity in context.
YOU read the Bible with a 21st century English speaking mind - and NOT in the FIRST century language and culture in which it was written.

The use of the word, "Until" in Scripture does NOT always indicate a subsequent action or consequence.
Let’s see what the Scriptures say about the use of the word, “until”.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us:
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Moses was buried by God in the valley of Moab after his death. Deut. 34:6 explicitly states:
And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre UNTIL this present day.
Sooooo – did they find his grave after this??

Let’s also examine Acts 2:34-35 (also see Psalm 110:1, Matt 22:44):
For David did not go up into heaven, but he himself said: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand UNTIL I make your enemies your footstool."'
Are we to surmise that Jesus will cease to sit at the right hand of the Father after his enemies are made his footstool?
The problem here is that anti-Catholics attempt to apply 21st century English to Hebrew and Greek from a culture thousands of years ago.

YOUR turn . . .

 

[Raccoon1010]

Read post #122 and we'll talk . . .

Yeah I read post #122, and there was no evidence what soever. Just assumptions.

 

[Pearl]

Catholics are born again the Biblical way not via your unbiblical "just invite Jesus into your heart" way.
We do it God's way not using a man made method.

So what is God's way?

 

[Pearl]

Considering the incredible hostility which these men harboured toward Rome, that is highly unlikely.




On the contrary there is plenty of Biblical evidence that Mary was a perpetual virgin.

I've yet to see anything that isn't really flimsy at best.

 

[Mungo]

I've yet to see anything that isn't really flimsy at best.

Then you haven't been reading posts.

 

[Mungo]

So what is God's way?

Jesus told you in John 3:3-5
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV)
A poor translation - better is born from above or born anew

Born of water and of the Spirit - baptism in water; what Paul calls in Tin 3:5 "the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit," (NAB).

Paul gives us the same theme of death and new life (born again/ born anew) in Col 2:12-13
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead [in] transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions
And in Rom 6:4
We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.

That is why Jesus told the apostles in Mt 28:19 "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit," and said in Mk 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

 

[April_Rose]

OK I see your point. So then this leads me to the question of this: Why does God require Mary to remain a virgin? Why not bless her and her husband with children after Jesus is born? What in your belief says God does not want to bless them in that way?

Exactly!

Heck let's keep going ,do we pray to her?

Well not to slam Catholics as I don't personally agree with it but they do. Which I don't know why as it goes against the commandment to pray to graven images.

And also orthodox I think.

Then why is it so easily debated?

 

[Pearl]

Then you haven't been reading posts.

Those are what I'm talking about. Flimsy.

 

[Pearl]

Jesus told you in John 3:3-5
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV)
A poor translation - better is born from above or born anew

Born of water and of the Spirit - baptism in water; what Paul calls in Tin 3:5 "the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit," (NAB).

Paul gives us the same theme of death and new life (born again/ born anew) in Col 2:12-13
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead [in] transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions
And in Rom 6:4
We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.

That is why Jesus told the apostles in Mt 28:19 "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit," and said in Mk 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

Babies 'baptism' doesn't count. A person has to decide for themselves whether they will follow Jesus and babies cannot make that decision. You have to come by yourself of your own free choice. God has no grandchildren.

 

[April_Rose]

Babies 'baptism' doesn't count. A person has to decide for themselves whether they will follow Jesus and babies cannot make that decision. You have to come by yourself of your own free choice. God has no grandchildren.

That's why I don't believe in infant baptism but I still don't believe that God would send an innocent infant or small child to Hell either,... But that's an entirely different topic.

 

[April_Rose]

Also for the record I do believe that that has been discussed on here already so I'm not making a new topic about it.

 

[Mungo]

Babies 'baptism' doesn't count. A person has to decide for themselves whether they will follow Jesus and babies cannot make that decision. You have to come by yourself of your own free choice. God has no grandchildren.

I didn't mention babies.

Try answering the points made instead of trying to divert onto something else.

 

[Mungo]

Those are what I'm talking about. Flimsy.

Then you have a comprehension problem.

 

[Pearl]

I didn't mention babies.

Try answering the points made instead of trying to divert onto something else.

I honestly don't know whar point you were making. You quoted a load of scripture which didn't seem relevaant. So please can you explain simply and clearly in your own words the answer to the question I asked.

 

[Pearl]

Then you have a comprehension problem.

Let's not get personal.

 

[Mungo]

I honestly don't know whar point you were making. You quoted a load of scripture which didn't seem relevaant. So please can you explain simply and clearly in your own words the answer to the question I asked.

All the scripture was relevant and I made comments in between.

You asked "So what is God's way?" [of being born again]

I said
Jesus told you in John 3:3-5
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (KJV)
What did you find difficult to understand in that?

 

[Mungo]

Let's not get personal.

And you.