Time, what is it?

[Ziggy]

Time:
Biblical Interpretation
Strong's H3117 - yowm

yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), elder, × end, evening, (for) ever(-lasting, -more), × full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, old, outlived, perpetually, presently, remaineth, × required, season, × since, space, then, (process of) time, as at other times, in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), × whole ( age), (full) year(-ly), younger.

Okay..

The first verse with the word yowm #H3117

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, H3117 and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. H3117

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. H3117

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. H3117

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day H3117 from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, H3117 and years:

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, H3117 and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

I call heaven and earth..
Deu 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deu 31:28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. H3117

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day H3117 God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day H3117 from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, H3117 and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day H3117 that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The Generations of the heavens and the earth in that yowm.

Time. yowm. day.

Up until this time everything is good.

This DAY of generations is over... How long was this Day?

This is a time.

new shovel

 

[Ziggy]

The first time the word "time" is used is here:

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

This is interesting..
process:
Strong's H7093 - qets
end
end, at the end of (of time)
end (of space)
qêts, kates; contracted from H7112; an extremity; adverbially (with prepositional prefix) after:— after, (utmost) border, end, (in-) finite, × process.

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end H7093 of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

I wonder if this is why God didn't find favour with Cain's offering.
I wonder what happened to the fruit that Cain offered?

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, H7093 upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Jer 51:13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end H7093 is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

Lam 4:18 They hunt our steps, that we cannot go in our streets: our end H7093 is near, our days are fulfilled; for our end H7093 is come

Eze 7:2 Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, H7093 the end H7093 is come upon the four corners of the land.
Eze 7:3 Now is the end H7093 come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations.
Eze 7:6 An end H7093 is come, the end H7093 is come: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come.

Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end H7093 shall be the vision.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end H7093 shall be.

at the yowm (day) of the end ( process of time ) shall be the vision. at the yowm (day appointed) the qets (process of time) shall be.

The last end.. in order for there to be a "last" end, there needs to be a "first" end.
How many ends are there?

what time is it?

Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: H7093 because it is yet for a time appointed.

that's an interesting verse to ponder.. even some of those with understanding shall fall, sifted like wheat even.
Yea so the saying goes judge not until the time appointed, even those that do fall are for his purpose.
And even though we judge them, they fall for our benefit so we can watch and learn the process of the rise and fall and rise again. And each (time) closer to perfection.
Kind of like watching dough rise and punching it down and letting it rise.. to get the holes and the air out.. leavening.
What happens when you only have unleavened bread?
Not talking about hypocrisy.. talking about pride to humbleness to a humbled prideful state.
Is it a sin to take pride in ones accomplishments when those accomplishments are the times of overcoming trials and tribulations?
Is this not having Joy in the Lord that leads us through those tough times?
Not a pride of self will.. but a being proud of having overcome.

Totally got sidetracked..
anywho.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: H7093 many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. H7093
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end H7093 be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end H7093 of the days.

at the end of the days.

need another shovel

 

[Ziggy]

Time:

There are 3 verses with "last time" .
Is this the same as Daniel's end time or time of the end?
How many end or last times can there be?

3 verses but I will keep it in context. The first is 1 Peter:

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Begotten us again...
Who are kept? Who are to be revealed in the last time?

This trial by fire sounds like this:

Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: H7093 because it is yet for a time appointed.

And the end of faith is when it is no longer by faith but face to face.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
When your soul is saved you have reached the end of faith.. that could open a whole new can of worms..

What is Begotten us AGAIN...

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

I'm running into a snag..again

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
Act 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

So we must be talking about Adam.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So Jesus also was made a living soul in the flesh form and was raised a quickening Spirit.. from the dead.

Jesus is the Light, and God called the Light, Day (yowm) time. And the evening and the morning was the 3rd day (time) Jesus rose from the dead.
4th, 5th, 6th, and on the Seventh God rested.

How many times you think God has laid his life down for mankind?

Adam sinned and God cursed the ground for his sake. That's the earth, the flesh that perishes. So that the spirit can be saved..
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

I'm going to run into Paul again.. sorry..

Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

the end of the world, or the end of that age, or in the end of that generation, or in the end of time?

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

daily..

last time.. daily..
which way?

 

[Ziggy]

Daily..

1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
1Co 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
1Co 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
1Co 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
1Co 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool ) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.

DAILY:
Exo 5:10 And the taskmasters of the people went out, and their officers, and they spake to the people, saying, Thus saith Pharaoh, I will not give you straw.
Exo 5:11 Go ye, get you straw where ye can find it: yet not ought of your work shall be diminished.
Exo 5:12 So the people were scattered abroad throughout all the land of Egypt to gather stubble instead of straw.
Exo 5:13 And the taskmasters hasted them, saying, Fulfil your works, your daily tasks, as when there was straw.
Exo 5:14 And the officers of the children of Israel, which Pharaoh's taskmasters had set over them, were beaten, and demanded, Wherefore have ye not fulfilled your task in making brick both yesterday and to day, as heretofore?

Psa 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
Psa 95:2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
Psa 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Psa 95:4 In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also.
Psa 95:5 The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land.
Psa 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Isa 26:2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.

Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

I need to come back to Isaiah 22.. at some point.. in time.

Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Judges chapter 3

Jdg 3:24 When he was gone out, his servants came; and when they saw that, behold, the doors of the parlour were locked, they said, Surely he covereth his feet in his summer chamber.
Jdg 3:25 And they tarried till they were ashamed: and, behold, he opened not the doors of the parlour; therefore they took a key, and opened them: and, behold, their lord was fallen down dead on the earth.

Psa 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Psa 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
Psa 24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Psa 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

Last time/End of days
where's my popcorn?

 

[Ziggy]

Last time:

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

world:
Strong's H8398 - tebel
tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—habitable part, world.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

plants and herbs:

1Ch 4:1 The sons of Judah; Pharez, Hezron, and Carmi, and Hur, and Shobal.

1Ch 4:21 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were, Er the father of Lecah, and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of them that wrought fine linen, of the house of Ashbea,
1Ch 4:22 And Jokim, and the men of Chozeba, and Joash, and Saraph, who had the dominion in Moab, and Jashubilehem. And these are ancient things.
1Ch 4:23 These were the potters, and those that dwelt among plants and hedges: there they dwelt with the king for his work.

ancient things.. hmm

Strong's H6267 - `attiyq
removed, weaned, old, ancient, taken away

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn H6267 from the breasts.

Isa 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
Isa 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

Isa 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isa 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

He tells us everything over and over—
one line at a time,
one line at a time,
a little here,
and a little there!”

For it is: Do this, do that, a rule for this, a rule for that

“Law after law, law after law,
line after line, line after line,
a little here, a little there.

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1Ch 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psa 17:14 From men which are thy hand, O LORD, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.

so many worlds in Psalms..
tomorrow

 

[Prayer Warrior]

This is quite an impressive list of scriptures, but what is your point??

 

[Jay Ross]

For me I define time as the length of a period between two non events. It is the journey that I go on between the two non event of the starting and the finishing non events of the time period that is important to all of mankind, a person's birth and his death mark the start on the finish of my life and it is how I handle my journey across God's earth that eventually defines who I am in Christ and my final destiny in eternity.

Shalom

 

[Ziggy]

This is quite an impressive list of scriptures, but what is your point??

Well, @Heart2Soul had mentioned how a lot of events took place at Midnight. So I began a thread called midnight to look at the events around that "time"
And then I thought to myself "what IS time? "
There are times and half a time, and appointed times..
all kinds of times.
Even the word "time" means Day.
It's not so much a clock as it is a "watch" .
Watch therefore.. in the 3rd Watch.. etc.
So I'm just doing a study on "time" according to the bible.
There sure is a lot of scripture around "time" . And sometimes it's hard to stay focused on a specific meaning of time, like in the "process" of time.
Which in itself means the end of time. So looking at Cain where it says "In the process of time Cain offered"
That is at the end times. If you stay in context of "end times" you can find throughout the bible what Cain was offering, how we went from one age to a new age.
Lot's of things.
I just like doing studies. And the greatest benefit I get from it is finding verses I had just gleaned over and took for granted.
Every word in the bible has meaning. And I enjoy finding the meanings.
I guess that's my point.
You can read and ponder, add, grab a shovel and help dig, or walk on by.
It's not meant to be a "debate" , it's meant to be a study

Hugs

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Well, @Heart2Soul had mentioned how a lot of events took place at Midnight. So I began a thread called midnight to look at the events around that "time"
And then I thought to myself "what IS time? "
There are times and half a time, and appointed times..
all kinds of times.
Even the word "time" means Day.
It's not so much a clock as it is a "watch" .
Watch therefore.. in the 3rd Watch.. etc.
So I'm just doing a study on "time" according to the bible.
There sure is a lot of scripture around "time" . And sometimes it's hard to stay focused on a specific meaning of time, like in the "process" of time.
Which in itself means the end of time. So looking at Cain where it says "In the process of time Cain offered"
That is at the end times. If you stay in context of "end times" you can find throughout the bible what Cain was offering, how we went from one age to a new age.
Lot's of things.
I just like doing studies. And the greatest benefit I get from it is finding verses I had just gleaned over and took for granted.
Every word in the bible has meaning. And I enjoy finding the meanings.
I guess that's my point.
You can read and ponder, add, grab a shovel and help dig, or walk on by.
It's not meant to be a "debate" , it's meant to be a study

Hugs

I appreciate the invitation to dig with you, but I don’t have TIME.

 

[amadeus]

Well, @Heart2Soul had mentioned how a lot of events took place at Midnight. So I began a thread called midnight to look at the events around that "time"
And then I thought to myself "what IS time? "
There are times and half a time, and appointed times..
all kinds of times.
Even the word "time" means Day.
It's not so much a clock as it is a "watch" .
Watch therefore.. in the 3rd Watch.. etc.
So I'm just doing a study on "time" according to the bible.
There sure is a lot of scripture around "time" . And sometimes it's hard to stay focused on a specific meaning of time, like in the "process" of time.
Which in itself means the end of time. So looking at Cain where it says "In the process of time Cain offered"
That is at the end times. If you stay in context of "end times" you can find throughout the bible what Cain was offering, how we went from one age to a new age.
Lot's of things.
I just like doing studies. And the greatest benefit I get from it is finding verses I had just gleaned over and took for granted.
Every word in the bible has meaning. And I enjoy finding the meanings.
I guess that's my point.
You can read and ponder, add, grab a shovel and help dig, or walk on by.
It's not meant to be a "debate" , it's meant to be a study

Hugs

And is there to be an end to time itself?

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:" Rev 10:5-6

 

[amadeus]

@Ziggy
Here is a study of interest by our old member here @Guiliano AKA Kerry:

Is there time in Heaven? The real truth, I think, is that time doesn't exist anywhere, let alone in Heaven. Time is an illusion. So is space. But let's look at the Bible.

Yes, time is part of the natural or carnal existence, which is what carnal men have.

Quote



Kerry: We read in Revelation about the Lake of Fire:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

That mentions day and night; but inside the Holy City, it is said:

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

That may imply there is no sun or moon but doesn't say outright there isn't. This does say there is no night in the Holy City:

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Again this does not say there is no sun or moon. Is there?

Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

How could there be months if there weren't days and a sun and moon?




If the 12 has a meaning to us as the 7 has a meaning to us, the meanings may be a part of the means to the end. The end is where God is directing us: to be overcomers. The Tree of Life is Jesus yielding fruit to accomplish God's ultmate purpose for men. Jesus yields all of the 12 fruits of the Spirit as He possesses all of the 7 Spirits. When we are overcomers, while still in this flesh, we, then being like Him will likewise yield the 12 and possess the 7. Perhaps in the reality, which is God, if there are no months, as there are no nights, then there are also no 12's, and no 7's. These things, these symbols (12 and 7 and others) are help us understand that which for the natural man is incomprehensible. When (and if) we, all of us, fully understand as Jesus understands, then the 12 and 7 also have no further use, no further meaning.

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Kerry: So what is the purpose of time? To teach us cause and effect. We are not too bright; and things needed to get "slowed down" for us. If you read Revelation, you see one thing disappearing and another appearing. That's the way things are, to be sure. No time is needed. Nor does it take any time for an angel to get from one place to another. Space is another illusion.




Agreed! But necessarily completely understood! LOL!

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Kerry: Let's look at what physics has to say. Physics today knows what the mystics have always said. If we look at how a photon or electron "moves," we see it's not really "moving." To us, it looks that way; but to the particle, it's not that way. Einstein's equations show us that at "the speed of light," time and distance both equal zero. The idea of "time" comes about from how we view space.

I say, "I am here, and you are there." I am imagining we are separate entities with space between us. In the world of physics, we are told that two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Spirits howeve can. A spirit can be anywhere or everywhere and occupy the same space as matter or another spirit. To maintain the sense of identity however -- to keep up the fiction that we are "separate" beings, we believe in the limitations of space, and then we believe it takes "time" to get from point X to point Y.




Amen!

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Kerry: We have errors in our beliefs about cause and effect. To solve these errors, Heaven had to adapt to us.

In the Third Heaven (not where the Holy City is, now!), things can appear and vanish instantly. They still know about time on our level however.




Yes, God is making (or has made) a Way for us and the primary thing in the Way is Jesus. But... we are understand to Him through the 12 Fruits and the 7 Spirits in the beginning of our walk. The end of our walk will be in Third heaven there will be no need for numbers or time.

"...that there should be time no longer:" Rev 10:6

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Kerry: Notice in Genesis, it does not mention the sun or moon. It doesn't. It also says that day and night existed "three days" before the "lights" were placed in the "firmament." Is that confusing? It is if we think it means physical light from the sun and moon. If we read it to mean the physical sun and moon, we get other problems.

First of all, as noted, we see day and night occurring before the sun is in place.

Secondly, the moon is not a light. It reflects light from the sun. If we read "stars" in Genesis to mean the classical five planets, they too are not real lights or real stars.

Thirdly, while the physical sun is always above the horizon during the day and below at night, that is not true of the moon. The moon is sometimes seen in the daytime, so how can Genesis mean that the "lesser light" rules the night?

Fourthly, while we may dismiss people in the past as ignorant buffoons who thought the sun, moon and planets were "placed" in the firmament and moved in it, today we know this is not so. There are not transparent shells around the earth that these physical bodies move in -- but could you believe me if I told you there is a firmament in which corresponding spirits move? Yes, and "birds" fly in it too!

The purpose of these "lights" was to "divide" the day from the night -- which they still do. They are still dividing spiritual darkness from spiritual Light. They were also to act as "signs, seasons, days, and years." Further, they were to "give light" to the earth; but and naturally this means spiritual light.

Do they interact with the physical world? Yes, I would say that's the whole point. How?

Let's return to Revelation now. John begins with a great deal of talk about time: Alpha and Omega (first and last) and the beginning and the end, and "which is, and which was, and which is to come." John is not in Heaven -- not in any of the three at this point. He's on the earth, hears a voice and says he turned to "see the voice." Note that. Compare it to Adam and Eve hearing the "voice of God" walking in Eden.

Let it be a mystery for a while; but note it: If you turn to "see the voice," you may see something else that the voice is producing for you to see. Do not think you are seeing something is that is "there" the way we see "things" in the physical world. John "knew" he was not seeing the Son of Man -- says so.

He says he saw seven lights or lamps, but the truth is he didn't see them at all anymore than he saw the Son of Man. He was seeing something "like unto" seven lamps just as he saw "one like unto the Son of Man" in the middle of the seven lamps or lights. This is a vision produced by the Voice -- call it the Living Word if you please -- you might say the spirit can creates sounds and pictures in the human mind the way radio or television signals can create sounds and pictures in physical devices.

The first thing to note is that the countenance is like the sun. Thus there are eight lights being described here, not seven. I would hazard to guess too that we could say this is why the "Son of Man" is depicted as standing "in the midst of" the seven lamps.
End Part I from Kerry

 

[amadeus]

Part II from Kerry:


The second thing I note is the golden girdle. Now gold in Heaven is clear as John informs us; and this girdle divides the figure as the firmament of Heaven divides the heavens. Moreover it should not escape us that the figure is described as both male and female. It has "paps." The other two places I read that word mastos in the New Testament, it refers to women (Luke 11:27 and 23:29). Thus it is like Adam and Eve, both male and female, before they were divided.

The Primordial Light is in the countenance. This is the Light which will light the Holy City. It is above the girdle, of course; and this is, I would say, the Light that appeared on Day One of Genesis. The seven stars are in his right hand. Is this above or below the girdle? Both in a way, isn't it? The hands and arms are connected to the shoulders which are above the girdle; but the hand can also extend down below the girdle. Thus we see, as in Genesis, seven lights in place to give light to the world.

The world -- below the girdle manifestation is feminine. It is also concealed by the garment. This depicts, I think, the Bride of Christ which exists today largely in concealed form -- except for the feet where they touch the earth. Where "Heaven meets earth," the feet are as if they are burning in a hot furnace as the Divine Flames contacting the earth are purifying the earth. (How beautiful are the feet.)

Note too that the feet are shown as brass -- as was the laver with the mirrows of the women in the Tabernacle. Brass is also the metal of the planet Venus -- the feminine principle.

Will there be months? Well, the moon will be under the feet of the woman later. And the moon governs the sea; and the sea will be no more.

There is a spiritual principle that corresponds to the movement of the physical moon. It governs emotions. Every month, we all go through emotional cycles, meant to instruct us in mastering our emotions and urges of the animal soul. Repentance is the decision to bring these impulses under the direction of Heaven. Instead of bouncing up and down monthly, we learn from the cycles so they no longer govern us. Now this is largely a feminine task. While men need to do it too, women tend to be more skillful at it if they apply themselves; and men can profit by living with women who have mastered this cycle.

The first message is to Ephesus where the goddess Diana was worshiped. There is a pagan and unholy way of dealing with the lunar energy, and there is a proper and holy way.

There are seven such cycles which need to be mastered. Each has its own energy which manifests within time and space. When the seventh is mastered, one hears the "voice of silence." This is a silence which can be said to be almost deafening in a way -- as illogical as that sounds. Time becomes irrelevant. It continues to exist, but there is a still and silent "center" about which "shells of energy" spin around -- like a star spinning on its axis -- like the relatively still center of an atom around which electrons fly rapidly.




Given all of that, and not understanding all of the details, Kerry, the end, the Omega, will the the 7-fold Light of Isaiah 30:26.

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound."

That perfect Light will be (forgive the usage of time) when the wound (our disconnected carnal existence) will be healed (at One with God for always [no time]). For God there is no difference between darkness and Light:

"Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee." Psalm 139:12

 

[Ziggy]

Part II from Kerry:


The second thing I note is the golden girdle. Now gold in Heaven is clear as John informs us; and this girdle divides the figure as the firmament of Heaven divides the heavens. Moreover it should not escape us that the figure is described as both male and female. It has "paps." The other two places I read that word mastos in the New Testament, it refers to women (Luke 11:27 and 23:29). Thus it is like Adam and Eve, both male and female, before they were divided.

The Primordial Light is in the countenance. This is the Light which will light the Holy City. It is above the girdle, of course; and this is, I would say, the Light that appeared on Day One of Genesis. The seven stars are in his right hand. Is this above or below the girdle? Both in a way, isn't it? The hands and arms are connected to the shoulders which are above the girdle; but the hand can also extend down below the girdle. Thus we see, as in Genesis, seven lights in place to give light to the world.

The world -- below the girdle manifestation is feminine. It is also concealed by the garment. This depicts, I think, the Bride of Christ which exists today largely in concealed form -- except for the feet where they touch the earth. Where "Heaven meets earth," the feet are as if they are burning in a hot furnace as the Divine Flames contacting the earth are purifying the earth. (How beautiful are the feet.)

Note too that the feet are shown as brass -- as was the laver with the mirrows of the women in the Tabernacle. Brass is also the metal of the planet Venus -- the feminine principle.

Will there be months? Well, the moon will be under the feet of the woman later. And the moon governs the sea; and the sea will be no more.

There is a spiritual principle that corresponds to the movement of the physical moon. It governs emotions. Every month, we all go through emotional cycles, meant to instruct us in mastering our emotions and urges of the animal soul. Repentance is the decision to bring these impulses under the direction of Heaven. Instead of bouncing up and down monthly, we learn from the cycles so they no longer govern us. Now this is largely a feminine task. While men need to do it too, women tend to be more skillful at it if they apply themselves; and men can profit by living with women who have mastered this cycle.

The first message is to Ephesus where the goddess Diana was worshiped. There is a pagan and unholy way of dealing with the lunar energy, and there is a proper and holy way.

There are seven such cycles which need to be mastered. Each has its own energy which manifests within time and space. When the seventh is mastered, one hears the "voice of silence." This is a silence which can be said to be almost deafening in a way -- as illogical as that sounds. Time becomes irrelevant. It continues to exist, but there is a still and silent "center" about which "shells of energy" spin around -- like a star spinning on its axis -- like the relatively still center of an atom around which electrons fly rapidly.




Given all of that, and not understanding all of the details, Kerry, the end, the Omega, will the the 7-fold Light of Isaiah 30:26.

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound."

That perfect Light will be (forgive the usage of time) when the wound (our disconnected carnal existence) will be healed (at One with God for always [no time]). For God there is no difference between darkness and Light:

"Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee." Psalm 139:12

amadeus.. where is this person with her shovel??

Thank You so much for sharing!

If there is more I would enjoy reading it.

Hugs

 

[amadeus]

amadeus.. where is this person with her shovel??

Thank You so much for sharing!

If there is more I would enjoy reading it.

Hugs

This was a discussion between Kerry and myself on another forum in 2012. I really had forgotten about the conversation until I saw this thread and searched for what I had saved on "Time". Kerry was on this forum for several months as Guiliano, but for some unknown reason was suspended or banned less than a month ago. When he disappeared here I checked his own forum which is still active and spoke with him. His forum is still active and he is up and running. Most of the extrabiblical stuff is his. His tremendous knowledge in some areas does rub some people the wrong way. He makes a living delivering newspapers and pizza... and he is not a young man although he is certainly quite bit younger than me.

 

[amadeus]

@Ziggy
This is from another discussion on another forum in 2011 which started with a question from the brother of @Helen who I believe now lives in Bulgaria. He did not then.


So now I have another question!!

If as we all seem to agree that Jesus is the tree of life, it would appear that once having (fallen Eve) and (Deliberately Adam) into sin what would be more natural than to find forgiveness in Jesus the tree of life?

Gods says no, instead you will face exile from your relationship with me and the garden.

Was this because the way was not open , even though Jesus was slain before the foundation of the earth and there is no time in God, until Jesus went to the cross in man's time?

This then asks the question even though there is no time in God does the Lord stick to certain regimented dispensations?

James

Are we getting in over our heads on this James? I hope that the Lord will help us answer this for everyone.

In the OT, we see numerous prophecies about Jesus, regarding His birth, death and resurrection. In the gospels (4), we see a sequence of events (confirmation of prophecies) apparently in chronological order, which we suppose is therefore in time, as we, as men, know it.

Then, in Revelation, it speaks both of "time no longer" [Rev 10:6] and of "... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" [Rev 13:8]

First, what is time?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." Ecc 3:1-8

To me, it definitely appears that time is for man, and we are men!

I recall a few years ago hearing or reading something about time dispensations, which seemed to divide men according to the segments of time in which they apparently lived. I studied it a little, but never really got into it. I do recall, that one supposed dispensation ended with Noah's Ark and the ones saved from that dispensation were the ones who were on the boat when the flood came.

But… is there really more than one way to be finally saved?


“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12


Are those words of Peter only to be applied to people living and dying naturally after the death and resurrection of Jesus as man understands to describes time? Or… is this where "... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" [Rev 13:8], would come into play providing the same possibilities for everyone, who has ever been born to woman and, perhaps, to the first Adam and Eve as well?

Job certainly spoke here as if he were also looking for something better than what he already had:

“And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:” Job 19:26

Was Job in a dispensation not covered by Acts 4:12?

And then consider Abraham:

“For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” Heb 11:10

Was he looking for a different city than the, new Jerusalem mentioned by John the apostle here?

“Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.” Rev 3:12

And are there not a temple in that city, which are God’s people, God’s dwelling places?

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” I Cor 3:16

Yet, David who seemingly lived 1,000 years prior to the time that Paul wrote I Cor 3:16 says this:

“I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.” Psalm 132:4-5

And then he provides the answer as to where that habitation is or is to be:

“For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.” Psalm 132:13-14

Is the habitation that David describes really a different temple than the one described by Paul and the pillar mentioned by the apostle John?

What is Zion, other than a “parched place”, which will no longer be parched when it is watered by the Living Water of which Jesus spoke here?

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” John 7:38

[“And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” Isaiah 58:11]

Then returning to Heb 11 where the writer names of many [and suggests that there were many more] as having lived by faith toward God (rather by their accomplishments toward a specific separate goal in each of the supposedly different dispensations. Was not God looking during all of man’s periods of time for individuals whose hearts were toward Him so that He could build without hands within them a dwelling place for Himself?

So with all of these connections between all of these books, and people in different times of men, and only the surface has been scratched, how should we divide the time of man in 7 parts (dispensations) or so?

Seven is a good number. There are seven days in the week. There are seven Spirits of God and Jesus has all of them. So also should not each person who is to be like Him to have all seven Spirits, without regard to the time period (as per man) in which a person was born naturally?

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

10:09 pm here...

 

[Bobby Jo]

Time:
Biblical Interpretation
Strong's H3117 - yowm
... How long was this Day?

I would propose that the Genesis Seven "Days" are better understood as seven "Eras".

But as to where we stand in "time" today, I'd propose that we're some few months until the TWO WITNESSES are murdered; some 6 to 8 months until the Mark of the Beast; and some 10 to 11 months until Global Thermonuclear War; where Jesus will return within some short number of weeks.


So for those who haven't prepared their households for when we can't "buy or sell", their clock is quickly running out; and so too for those who are still working the never-ending details of their own preparations!!!

With VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Ziggy been considering your topic and reading through post here...a lot of good study. Thank you for sharing!

@amadeus posted the passage ‘a time to’ which makes me think of 1 Peter 4:2-3 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. [3] For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Ecclesiastes 3:3-7 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; (Galatians 2:18-19)(Isaiah 58:12)
[4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; (James 4:9-10) [5] A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; (Psalm 60:1)(Luke 11:23) a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; [6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; (John 17:12)[7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; (Luke 23:45)

...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; Luke 1:20-22 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season. [21] And the people waited for Zacharias, and marvelled that he tarried so long in the temple. [22] And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.

Luke 1:62-64 And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called. [63] And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all. [64] And his mouth was opened immediately, and his tongue loosed, and he spake, and praised God.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. Revelation 22:18-21 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. [20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. [21] The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

point is...see in ‘a time to’ there is:
‘a time to’ in Adam
and ‘a time to’ in Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There are seven Spirits of God and Jesus has all of them. So also should not each person who is to be like Him to have all seven Spirits, without regard to the time period (as per man) in which a person was born naturally?

Curious what connection is there to ‘and takes with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and swell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto the wicked generation.’ Matthew 12:45

and “There are seven Spirits of God and Jesus has all of them. So also should not each person who is to be like Him to have all seven Spirits,”

Revelation 1:3-4 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. [4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

 

[amadeus]

...
point is...see in ‘a time to’ there is:
‘a time to’ in Adam
and ‘a time to’ in Christ.

Even so! Our choice! Mammon or God? The time given to us to use belongs to God but He allows as stewards to choose how to use it: our own way, or His Way! [Is this not 'free will'?]

"And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:42-48