Obviously, it's saying having no sacrifice for sin left means you don't have that sacrifice left to rescue you from the wrath of God.
“ Obviously?” To you Perhaps .Thats all.
Hebrews 10:26-31
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Obviously, it's saying having no sacrifice for sin left means you don't have that sacrifice left to rescue you from the wrath of God.
“ Obviously?” To you Perhaps .Thats all.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You didn't even answer my question, lol.
Works do not merit salvation. Works show if you are saved or not. If you accuse me of saying works earn salvation one more time I am reporting you for harassment.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
So, in other words, you can't think of the way that 'eternal life' doesn't have to mean you can never lose it, right?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Peter says 'do'. Not to earn salvation, but to make sure you are saved.
2 Peter 1:10Therefore, my brothers and sisters, a make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble
Did you even know this verse was in the Bible? How about this one?
Hebrews 6:11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure.
He's not saying to do something to earn your salvation, as you seem to only be able to see in the word 'do'. He's saying to 'do' something in order to make sure you are really saved. I know this is a completely alien teaching to you and many people in the church but there it is right under our noses in the Bible. The Bible that the church does not read for themselves.
Yes, the very doctrine that is responsible for my being set free from besetting sins (in Ezekiel 33:11-20) must in fact be a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel by which I am damned for ever...
After all, the true gospel tells us that we can remain in our sins and we will go to heaven...and therefore if there is a gospel that sets you free from the power of sin, it must be evil.
For the TRUE GOSPEL is that the Lord does not enact a change in the life of the believer so that 1 John 3:9 would be the reality of his life...
The TRUE GOSPEL is that a man does not need to repent of sin but can keep on keeping on in his sinful ways so that when he gets to heaven, he can keep on keeping on in his sinful ways and therefore sin will be in heaven...and all of the things associated with it...sorrow, crying, tears, pain, and death...because he never repented of living a lifestyle of sin so he will keep on sinning in heaven...
(I think that what you don't realize is that we sin with our souls and we repent with our souls. So that if we have not repented with our souls by the time we stand before the judgment seat of Christ, receiving a glorified body is not going to change the fact that we are sinners...because in that case, we would still be sinners in our souls and eradicating sin from the body would therefore not remove sin from the entire being of the person.)
It is a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel by which you will be damned for ever to believe that God requires a man to repent...and therefore, John the Baptist preached a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel by which he and all who heard him were damned for ever.
Okay, back to reality...
It is a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel to teach that a man can go on in his sins and still be saved.
The TRUE GOSPEL requires that a man repent in order to be saved.
This is the bottom line.
@Blood Bought 1953,
Your FALSE and PERVERTED gospel is going to put you smack dab in the center of hell...you are going to die in your sins if you do not repent...that means to turn away from your sins.
Sins included in this are the preaching of a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel by which a man can believe that he is saved if he continues on in his sins and never repents of them.
For you preach a gospel that is devoid of repentance....and that is a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel to say the least.
Then you have the gall to say that a gospel that includes repentance will place a man in hell...
Which amounts to the teaching that repenting will place a man in hell.
I am very certain, 100%, no shadow of a doubt that the devil is very pleased with you and the doctrine that you have set forth as the gospel of grace. For of course the devil would love it if no one repents.
I leave you with this.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil....He came to set people free from the power of sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14, 1 John 1:7). He does not do this in a man without his permission; and therefore, the man in question must turn away from his sins if he is going to have the works of the devil destroyed in his life. As long as he commits sins, he is of the devil; he is not of God. His only option that will redeem him will be to turn to Christ as the remedy from his lifestyle of sinning; as it is written,
Jhn 8:31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Jhn 8:32, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jhn 8:33, They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jhn 8:34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jhn 8:35, And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Jhn 8:36, If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
I do not pay any attention to you Anymore....I went through your post in the time it deserved.... roughly 3 seconds .....you bring up nothing that has not been covered before ....kudos to you, though for serving as an excellent “ springboard” for me to show Newbies what “ Falling from Grace” looks like.There are many ways to “ Fall” and your Perverted Gospel Of “ Lucky Repentance” is at the top of the list....You have been a helpful, although unknowing partner in getting the TRUE Gospel out Grace Plus Nothing out there....I am indebted to you, but I’m still gonna try to ignore your future posts....with the price Of this computer ink exploding, you would be wise to use it sparingly! You are a little slow to “ catch on “ sometimes, so let me clue you in tonthe Fact That that last sentence was a joke...
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Discipleship and sanctification show whether or not you are really saved. This is important for the church to know because many are being led astray by teachings like yours into thinking they are saved when they really aren't. Their unconverted, lip service only lives testifying to the fact that they aren't really saved. The Bible instructs us all to 'do' something so we can see if we are really saved or not. You call that a works gospel. You are literally calling the instructions of the Bible a works gospel.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hi @Blood Bought 1953
I'm a bit confused about what you mean by computer ink? I know printer ink and toner but...a computer? I've never hear of it.
God Bless!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
What God-sent teachers? I've only met 2 or 3 teachers who I considered truly God-sent and ordained by God to teach in wisdom and knowledge. Everybody else has been just a fellow believer with an opinion, just like the rest of us, but who just happens to be the pastor of the church.
The problem is they're pushing their opinions off as the authoritative word of God and leading gullible people who don't read their Bibles astray. I learn more from my fellowship with believers in open discussion than I do from the church leadership. True God-sent people in leadership are far and few between. I presently do not have access to one of those people. But as I've said, I think that's a sign of the times.......the end times. In this time, we are on our own and learn by reading the Bible for ourselves and talking to others who also read their bibles in humility and honesty and don't claim to be God-sent leaders and teachers of the Church. The leadership, generally speaking, is corrupted. Not intentionally, but through ignorance and tradition. You'll just get preprogrammed and controlled, dogmatic rhetoric from the church leadership. You'll get inspiration and insight from fellowshipping with other believers who are honest and open in their Bible reading.
Well we see quite differently.
Hebrews 10:26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
There is nothing in the verse that qualifies willfully sinning or deliberately sinning as to make it mean and equated to a turning back or rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus. It is simply speaking about willfully or deliberately sinning. Equating the willful or deliberate sinning there as such distorts the message.
Another important thing to consider with the verse is to somehow see why the writer needed to qualify the sinning, that is, as a deliberate one. To get to that, we ought to look at and consider the situation of those to whom the writer is writing to.
1) mainly believers coming from the circumcision or Jewish
2) ought to be teachers but did not grow to maturity and are as babes, needed to be taught again the first principles of the oracles of God
3) going through a great struggle with sufferings of reproaches and tribulations, even their goods plundered
4) showing to have grown very much weakened in the faith as one exhausted to the point of near hopelessness and surrender to them who persecutes them who want of them to revert to the Law.
With that, wherein the persons of interest obviously needed great exhortation, their situation strongly inclines me to think, and so I thus think, that their situation have somehow pushed and forced them to commit sins (unwillingly). What sins those may be could very well be what the writer is exhorting them in his writing.
That provided for a reasonable and in context explanation, why the writer have to qualify the sinning in this (v.26) verse. For if he would not qualify, it might be sending a wrong message, becoming a discouragement instead of encouragement, weakening them all the more instead of strengthening them.
Tong
R1429
Yep, it’s about the best I can come up with...It seems to be my ” Fate” that I am “ God’s Angry Man”——-I am like Paul and Jesus in the sense that I HATE Hypocrisy....I HATE Legalism....and I HATE Religionists and Tares that destroy Churches ( they destroyed most Of Paul’s) ,Shipwreck the Lives Of Believers , Ruin lives, and send many to Hell.....There are Honest, Sincere Searchers and Babes in Christ, and I treat them like Gold .....What you see in here and what I fight against are “ Accusers Of The Brethren” That are required to be “ REBUKED” ......If I ever deviate from Scripture in what I teach, I fully expect to be Rebuked myself....I have been blessed by God .... I have been taught by the Best Bible Teacher on the Planet during my Serious 40 years of Studying the Bible and Studying it HARD ! Their exists a thing called “Righteous Anger” and I got a bunch of it .
Hang me from the highest tree....
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Stop being so angry and defensive and open your eyes and you'll see no one here is saying works earn salvation. They SHOW if you really have salvation. That's why the Bible exhorts us to do works of righteousness.......so we'll know if we are really saved or not and ready for the return of Christ. 'Do' in the Bible does not mean earn your salvation. 'Do' means make your calling and election evident. So that you can be sure you're really ready to meet Christ at the Judgment.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 6:4-8
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Hebrew 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has ignored the Law of Moses is put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Who wrote this?
Who was it written to?
And why?
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
Hebrew 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has ignored the Law of Moses is put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Who wrote this?
Who was it written to?
And why?
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You say you have met 2 or 3 ? So you admit that they EXIST ? You have met 2 or 3 and maybe I have met 10.....Maybe I look harder or maybe it’s the Fact I have been doing this longer ( 40 years) ...
If you don’t like the guys that I do , that means absolutely NOTHING ....it’s-just your opinion....We could BOTH be listening to Devils and be unaware of it....I ask God for Him to lead me to “GOD” - CALLED Teachers as opposed to “SELF” - Called Teachers.....That is All that I “ CAN” do and I have Trusted Him to do it.....
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Apologies.....I forgot all about this thing.....my nap was superb however and now it is time for another one ....I will get to this....I’ve debated it a hundred times over the years and I am it intimidated about it —- at All. I’m just lazy sometimes, laziness being one of my Many Sins.....pray for old BB ....retirement has ruined him....lol.....
The song that you and millions of other so-called “ Christians” sing almost every Sunday.....sung mindlessly and if actually “ thought” about would make you Ill and Scared to Death ! It’s called “NOTHING but the Blood”. NOTHING means NOTHING ! I am talking STRICKTLY about Salvation here .
When a person says “ Jesus Saves , BUT !” .....anything on the other side of that “ but” shows you are Teaching an Addition to Paul’s Gospel Found In 1Cor14:1-4 . If you Add ANYTHING to the Blood Of Jesus for your Salvation you are a Legalist and you “ fall from Grace” ( read the 5th chapter of Galatians)
The first Chapter Of Galatians reveals a False Gospel or “ Perverted” Gospel is. It is one that adds to the exclusive Saving Facts Of The True Gospel ....” Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead three days later” . Jesus said that if you simply Believe That to Save you ....you will be Saved .Jesus revealed that to Paul to reveal to us. Jesus had the golden opportunity to say and include ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that was needed for a person to be “ fit for Heaven” . These are the Two Things he Gave to be Believed in order to be Saved.Nothing else. This Gospel is what God is going to ask you about, come Judgement Day, according to Paul. Did you Believe it alone, or did you think you had to ADD to it? Your answer could determine your Eternal Fate. If you Believed in adding to it with the Repentance Of all of your sins before you died, you MIGHT be in for a very Long Day. If you went farther and TAUGHT that Tripe....there ain’t no “ might” about it......according to Gal 1:8 , you will be “ Accursed” - DAMNED forever ..
Read Galatians....it's only 6 little chapters ....it could keep you out of Hell....it’s worth the investment of your time.You can then tell me how I got it wrong....
You probably never heard of any of this stuff in church, did you? Well, you have heard it now—- best do something about it ....
All you Legalists out there that LOVE Commandments ? God COMMANDS Everybody to REST in His Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing or be guilty of UNBELIEF .....so follow “ that” Commandment....Its a very serious one.....
Read the short Book Of Galatians
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Works do not put you at rest in Christ. Works SHOW if you are at rest in Christ.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
All Christians know this 'stuff'. What honest Bible reading students of the Word resist is the addition you make to this gospel that you can stop believing in Christ and you will still enter into the kingdom when Jesus comes back. Unbelievers do not enter into the kingdom. Stop adding that deceitful stuff to the gospel and we'll be good. You're deceiving unsaved people in the church into thinking they are saved in the deadness of their 'lip service only' unbelief when they are not saved at all.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I find it quite incredible that you can't see that it plainly says that in place of a sacrifice for sins is the fearful expectation of fiery judgment.
But you say it says what's in place of a sacrifice for sins are the rainbows and teddy bears of God's grace.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It means the person still living in their unconverted old life of sin is not saved. But the teaching in the church today says they are saved if they believe in Christ. Not knowing that if they believed in Christ they wouldn't be living in their unconverted old life of sin.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Assuming a true believer can stop believing, she no longer has access by faith to the sacrifice and ministry of Christ in heaven. Christ's sacrifice for sin no longer remains for her. All she has left to look forward to is the fiery wrath of God's judgment.
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