Hebrews 10:26-31

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Tong2020

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What sin is not willful? All sin is willful. What sin do you not have the power to not commit? Therefore if you do that flesh work, you have by choice allowed it. Now, that choice may be poorly made, uninformed, or lacking in faith, but it's still your choice. So by your saying, any Christian who commits a sin is forever condemned to eternal torment?

I don't think that is true.

Much love!

All sin is sin, but all sin is not willful or deliberate. There is intentional and unintentional sin.

@Blood Bought 1953

Tong
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Tong2020

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Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost does not refer to sins against Jesus, it refers to sins against the Holy Ghost; who is very real on the earth today.
I would just like for us to realize that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is sin against God, and blasphemy against the Son (Jesus Christ) is sin against God, and blasphemy against the Father is sin against God.

While having said that, we must be aware of this truth that the Lord Jesus Christ no less have revealed to man, that whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

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justbyfaith

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.......giving them the ability to sin willfully, without consequences.

I don’t teach this and I don’t know anybody that does.....
The “ SMALLEST” of sins has “ consequences”..... Bad ones...
Willful Sins ? They also have “ consequences”.....VERY Bad ones.....

If my youngsters do wrong unknowingly or accidentally , the discipline —- the Chastizement— is going to be negligible , if at all...
If my youngsters do wrong knowingly, intentional and WILLFULLY —- the Chastisement will be Severe!
That’s also how it works with God....
If you Sin Willfully as a CHILD of GOD ....God will put Blisters on your rear-end , But you are STILL His CHILD....still Saved...
This is True because God made a Promise that if you Believe the Gospel, Turning to Him with Faith in His Son....He will SAVE YOU TO THE UTTERMOST ! God will not be happy with you....he will not bless you, he won’t respond to your prayers, and you will lose the “Joy” of your Salvation , like David did.....But you will KEEP your Salvation....like David did ....why did he not lose “His” Salvation when he Willfully Sinned with his Adultery and Murder? Simple .He had Faith in God . He looked “forward” to the Cross for his Salvation just like we look “back” to the Cross for ours.....
Job is the oldest Book Of The Bible.... he lived way before David did yet he knew that “ his Redeemer liveth” .....
Faith in the Redeemer....it Saved then and it will Save now
I think I kinda got off the path with my answer .....who cares....lol.....I got some good teaching out there .....of course, many here are “ above “ being taught . Especially for a guy like myself that some think is headed for Hell like a Speeding Bullet ....
We’ll see, won’t we ?
As much as, in essence, I might be inclined to agree with you...

There is still Hebrews 10:26-31 to deal with. It is not going away; and it very clearly teaches that what awaits the person who sins willfully against the Lord after having come to the knowledge of the truth, is a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation that will devour the adversaries.
 

justbyfaith

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What sin is not willful?

(
Brilliant.Thanks!
I have been saying Forever that ALL sin is “ Willful” . I could never explain it the way that I wanted to . You just did....
I will copy and paste that and even though it is a Sin to Steal ....I “WILL” be stealing it....lol....thanks again.
)

For example, if you have a dream that you were doing something horrible; and then wake up and think of it as a nightmare.
 

justbyfaith

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May I quote you?

No.
You cannot show forth scripture that refutes @Ferris Bueller's position and yet you make an unfounded claim that it is unbiblical that you cannot substantiate with the word of the Lord.

I conclude that his position is, in fact, biblical...for lack of evidence to the contrary; because that evidence is lacking and because the one who has made the claim is unable to substantiate his claim with evidence from the holy scriptures.
 
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mjrhealth

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As I said, the condemnation for rejecting Jesus is pronounced when God decides to turn a person over to that sin. I committed that sin several times in the time before I was saved when I struggled with the conviction of the Spirit. Had I persisted in my sins in that willful unbelief the day would have come when I could no longer repent even if I wanted to! Thankfully, by God's grace I caved in before then.
Yes we love condemning the world. but most of the world has being blinded, and I know God hasnt shown us everything. Going on christianities rules no religious man will be saved and the rest of the world is already condemned, be really quiet place in heaven.
 

Tong2020

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I find it quite incredible that you can't see that it plainly says that in place of a sacrifice for sins is the fearful expectation of fiery judgment.

But you say it says what's in place of a sacrifice for sins are the rainbows and teddy bears of God's grace.

<<<I find it quite incredible that you can't see that it plainly says that in place of a sacrifice for sins is the fearful expectation of fiery judgment.>>>

You shouldn’t. For what you say there, I am sorry to say, is false and would only be true under the old covenant or the Law, considering the sacrifice of Jesus Christ had already been made.

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Sin is sin, be it intentional or not, willfully committed or forced. It is because of sin that the Lord Jesus had to die. Now, the writer had just written about the truth that Jesus had offered the sacrifice for sins forever, so that there remains no more sacrifice for sins, rendering the law as of no avail.

If one does not understand what that truth means, which I have observed throughout this thread as lacking to many, one will not really get to understand this passage in Hebrews 10. I think a separate thread on that is called for.

So, it is a mistake for you to say “But you say it says what's in place of a sacrifice for sins are the rainbows and teddy bears of God's grace.” That even may perhaps amount to a false accusation or misrepresentation in as much I have not said that nor said anything to that effect.

Anyway, the passage under discussion here does not mean to say that willful sin cannot be forgiven. There is only one unforgivable sin which Jesus no less revealed, that I know of at least at this time of writing, that is, the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Other than that, all else can be forgiven.

The passage is the writer’s way of saying to those poor brethren during those most trying times, who were thinking or pushed towards giving up in continuing in the faith and going back to their former religion or “faith”, if at all they may be so called, that they will be in a much much worst situation than they were presently then, in that, there is no more sacrifice for sins. For then, they could only expect the worst. It is effectively next to saying that they have thus believed in vain if and when it happens that they draw back to their former religion and fall away from Christ.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Let me put it this way: Jesus died for all of my sins past present and future but if I commit sins willfully in the future, there remains no more sacrifice for sins and that includes the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Therefore, because I am born again and am sealed by the Holy Spirit, I will not be committing willful sins at any time in the future. Because Jesus has forgiven me of all of my sins in the past, present, and future.

But if I were to do so, that might be considered to be a sign that my faith was never genuine in the first place.

But I know that @Ferris Bueller has something good to say about that.
This is my take on that. While it is so that Jesus’ sacrifice for sins is one that was more than sufficient to cover all sins, I mean to say ALL sins, which speaks of the infinite mercy of God upon all of mankind, it does not mean that all of mankind were forgiven or that ALL sins (past, present, and future) of all of mankind were forgiven.

Tong
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Cooper

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Most likely she “ believed” in a “Jesus” Of her own creation....like somebody that came down from Heaven to show you how to be a “ moral enough” person to be “worthy” of Heaven ....that’s a Pretend Jesus.....Jesus never preached a bunch of new rules to be obeyed in order to get Saved ....Jesus preached “ Himself”——- not a guide to better yourself and clean yourself up so you would get what you deserved come Judgement Day....
Once you know who Jesus truly is and understand what He did for you when you did not deserve it and the fact that He did not “ have” to do it.....you will find that it is easier to stay “IN” your Walk Of Faith than it is to Depart it...
When somebody presents another with a FANTASTIC GIFT , it’s just human nature to want to pay that person back.....willingly and lovingly .....
Years ago my daughter had a terrible bike wreck ( she was around 8 or 9 ) and some stranger that lived way up the road where she wrecked carried my young, hurting and scared in his arms all the way to my house......to this day , if this guy, whom I Barely know , where to ask ANYTHiNG of me—-I would happily give him anything he asked for in return for what he did for me....
Those that reject or do not KNOW Jesus are ones that have never really known what He did for them....my neighbor “ Saved” my daughter from a terrible, painful wreck....Jesus Saved “me” from a well- deserved Hell, when He did not have to and when I did nothing to deserve it.....In Fact, I was His Enemy and He underwent a Torturous Death to Save me....How could anybody Turn their Back on Somebody like that? It’s easy , I guess If you don’t Know Him. I KNOW Him and what He did....one could not FORCE me to reject Him......
You assume too much about someone you do not know, but this one thing we do know, is that she does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ NOW. She has had a change of heart and she needs to be prayed for.
.
 
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mjrhealth

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The biggest issue is "christianity", too many "learned" people, but it is purely there own understanding, than we have this, looking at the splinter in our brothers eye but ignoring the one in our own, than there is sin, does any one actually know what it is, and no, it has nothing to do with the law never did, it always has to do with men and God, as Jesus put it, that which you do to the least of these you do to me, like smoking in its own right its not sin, but when you stand there puffing into the faces of others it all changes, but not even that can separate us from God, in fact as someone put it, only blasphemy of the Holy Spirit can, Christ changed everything all that stood before us has being removed, even God came pout the temple so we could chat with Him, if there was a "greatest " sin to me it would be, far to many leave Christ out, as He put it, they worship me with there lips but there hearts are far from me.

God bless
 

justbyfaith

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Yes we love condemning the world. but most of the world has being blinded, and I know God hasnt shown us everything. Going on christianities rules no religious man will be saved and the rest of the world is already condemned, be really quiet place in heaven.

Yes, those who do not believe on Jesus Christ are indeed condemned already (John 3:18).
 

justbyfaith

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To reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in your life is a sin against the Holy Spirit and if you never allow Him to sanctify you wholly (1 Thessalonians 5:23 (kjv)), you may very well find yourself thrown into the lake of fire on your day of judgment.

So, while you may not have committed the unpardonable sin, the end result is the same as if you had done so.

For you have counted the blood of the covenant by which you can be sanctified as an unholy thing and have done despite to the Spirit of grace.
 

mjrhealth

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Yes, those who do not believe on Jesus Christ are indeed condemned already (John 3:18).
Yes I know you profess to be the expert on such thing yet i seem to be one of the few here that actually promotes Him unlike you seeks to add to salvation, and despises any one who cant agree with your delusions. You reap what you sow... Your own doing.
 

justbyfaith

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Yes I know you profess to be the expert on such thing yet i seem to be one of the few here that actually promotes Him unlike you seeks to add to salvation, and despises any one who cant agree with your delusions. You reap what you sow... Your own doing.
You are not promoting the true Jesus of the Bible; for the true Jesus of the Bible is in fact the God who created us both.

And if you do not repent of your unbelief concerning this and put your faith in Jesus as the Son of God (as Isaiah 9:6 defines that, Him being "The everlasting Father"), you will die in your sins.

I certainly do not despise you over the fact that you reject this very basic truth of Christianity 101...as a matter of fact I continue to pray for you that the Lord might reach into your heart and save you.

Even as it is written,

2Ti 2:25, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26, And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

and,

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

BloodBought 1953

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Well.....you finally got me. I’m so upset that I’ve been “ found out” by this verse that just destroys everything that I’ve ever thought or said......I’m going to take a nap....I’ll address your usual false take on Scripture when I get up....zzzzzzzzz.....



The following comes from Paul Ellis .....his fantastic site is “ escape to reality” .....for Grace Believers only .....Legalists need to steer clear, lest they risk suffering a heart-attack.....enloy the logic and sanity and the Insight Of Mr. Ellis “ Take” 1 John 3:9.....

So what is John talking about when he says no one who lives in him keeps on sinning? There are two ways to read this. Someone schooled in the sticks and carrots of the old covenant will interpret these words as a threat. “If you want to remain in him and stay saved, you had better stop sinning. Don’t be deceived. God is holy and intolerant of sin. Slip up and you’re outta here!”

What an awful distortion of God’s unconditional love! Can you imagine being married to someone who threatened to kick you out every time you made a mistake? You would be an emotional wreck. You would walk on eggshells for fear of upsetting your hyper-sensitive and ungracious partner.

Come to think of it, this is exactly how many Christians live. Since they don’t know what makes the new covenant new, they are filled with performance anxiety. They are ever fearful of enraging a temperamental God.

Look to the cross! If God loved you enough to die for you when you were a sinner, he surely loves you now. He didn’t stop loving you after you got saved and he will never kick you out. Your union with the Lord is not conditional on your behavior. In case we had forgotten this, John gives us a reminder:

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. (1 John 4:15, NKJV)

God abides, he dwells, he stays. The moment you acknowledged Jesus as Lord, he moved into your life and he will never leave.

John’s remarks about not sinning should not be read as a threat but promise. He is describing the new life that we have in Christ. Jesus didn’t sin and he never will. If you let him live his life through you, then without any conscious effort on your part you’re going to start talking and walking just like sinless Jesus. It’s inevitable. Live with someone long enough and you begin to resemble that person in manner and thought.

Sonful, not sinful

I am not saying your behavior will attain a level of sinless perfection this side of eternity. I am saying that living in fellowship with the sinless Son produces desires in us that are informed by his righteous nature. You are Sonful not sinful. This is how John explains it:

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)

This is not about your performance but your pedigree. Look at the verse again. Three times John refers to your parentage; born of God, God’s seed, born of God. John is trying to tell us that while Adam breeds sinners, God does not. This comes out clearly in the Message Bible:

People conceived and brought into life by God don’t make a practice of sin. How could they? God’s seed is deep within them, making them who they are. It’s not in the nature of the God-begotten to practice and parade sin. (1 John 3:9, MSG)

Origin determines destination. In your old life you followed in the faithless footsteps of your father Adam. You walked after the desires of the flesh because they were the only desires you had.

But you have been taken out of Adam and placed into Christ. You have become a partaker of his divine nature. The evidence of this is the new desires and new ambitions you now have. As far as sinning goes, you are just not that interested anymore. Sure, you still have the capacity to sin. But you don’t enjoy it like you used to. Sinning makes you miserable because you know who your Father is, and when you know who your Father is (not a sinner), then you know who you are (not a sinner).

In the next verse John adds, “This is how we know who the children of God are” (1 John 3:10).

Who are the children of God?

It is those who practice righteousness, not because they have to, but because they carry the righteous DNA of their righteous Father. You don’t practice righteousness to become righteous but because you are righteous. You are a righteous branch on a righteous vine doing what comes naturally.
 

mjrhealth

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You are not promoting the true Jesus of the Bible; for the true Jesus of the Bible is in fact the God who created us both.

And if you do not repent of your unbelief concerning this and put your faith in Jesus as the Son of God (as Isaiah 9:6 defines that, Him being "The everlasting Father"), you will die in your sins.

I certainly do not despise you over the fact that you reject this very basic truth of Christianity 101...as a matter of fact I continue to pray for you that the Lord might reach into your heart and save you.

Even as it is written,

2Ti 2:25, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26, And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

and,

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus is from heaven not the bible havnt you noticed, the Jesus you promote is just that your bible Jesus. You refuse Him so you will never know the real Him.
 

Tong2020

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Let me put it this way: Jesus died for all of my sins past present and future but if I commit sins willfully in the future, there remains no more sacrifice for sins and that includes the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

Therefore, because I am born again and am sealed by the Holy Spirit, I will not be committing willful sins at any time in the future. Because Jesus has forgiven me of all of my sins in the past, present, and future.
That seems to be that you know and believe you will not commit “willful sins”. That seems new to my ears. So please help me out here to make me understand what it is you teach here.

If that is the case and if you are truly born again (I am not saying you are not), then that goes for all genuine born again Christians right? Right.

Would that not then make any one who claims to be born again who are guilty of that, as being exposed to be false Christians? Yes?

Also, would that not mean that Hebrews 10:26-27 is not intended for the genuinely born again? Yes?

Would not the writer then writing to false Christians, since such is not possible with genuine Christians? Yes?

For what then was the writer’s purpose in even saying what he said there?

<<<Because Jesus has forgiven me of all of my sins in the past, present, and future.>>>

If that were the case, when were you forgiven of all of your sins, past present, future?

Do you feel guilty still or not, when you sin, since now you know and believe that your future sins has been already forgiven?

Do you still pray to God and ask for forgiveness when you fall into sin, even while you know you already had been forgiven?

Tong
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Tong2020

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Yes, those who do not believe on Jesus Christ are indeed condemned already (John 3:18).
I would like to add, that they are said to be condemned already, but not to mean that they are on their way to hell.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

The condemnation that verse 18 speaks about is what we can read in the verses that follows.

Tong
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Ferris Bueller

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Newbies...please note....NONE of this is Biblical ....it reflects a brain that is full of Religious Mush and shows what happens if you don’t listen to God- Sent Teachers That can instruct a person in how to “ Rightly Divide”
Too proud to listen to others that are wiser than them, they choose to “ go it alone” and this is the result —- a confused mix of scriptures , taken out of context, mixing truths with untruths ,the Old Contract forced into the New and vice - verse , etc. Yes they “ go it alone” and as I have said before—- IT SHOWS!
Before you go crying like a baby to the mods, as you have threatened because you can’t argue with the Truth using Scriptures ......go back and read the Story Of The Sons Of Noah and see what Gid thinks about “Tattle- Tellers”......
Friend, I think you just went off the rails, lol.
 
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Tong2020

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To reject the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in your life is a sin against the Holy Spirit and if you never allow Him to sanctify you wholly (1 Thessalonians 5:23 (kjv)), you may very well find yourself thrown into the lake of fire on your day of judgment.

So, while you may not have committed the unpardonable sin, the end result is the same as if you had done so.

For you have counted the blood of the covenant by which you can be sanctified as an unholy thing and have done despite to the Spirit of grace.
Just a point of clarification, is it reject or resist, or either or both?

As with regards the unforgivable sin, is it not the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Is that not different from rejecting or resisting the work of the Holy Spirit? Pardon me, but in my view, they are different. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was somehow defined by Jesus Christ no less.

Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever
speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Tong
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