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Featured Hebrews 10:26-31

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

    If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) I've heard those in the NOSAS camp try to get around the truth here by either saying forever doesn't really mean forever or "once for all and for all time" ONLY applies to "the offering of the body of Jesus Christ," but not to the person who is sanctified. Yet in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

    *NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

    Strong's Concordance
    hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
    Original Word: ἁγιάζω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: hagiazó
    Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
    Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
    Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

    *In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

    In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to "nominal" Christians and not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

    So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer who is mixed in with this group of Hebrew Christian believers, but then later renounces their identification with these Hebrew Christian believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with this group of Hebrew Christian believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
     
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  2. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    Why are you disconnecting "but a certain fearful expectation of judgment" from "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"? It's plainly saying the judgment is the result of there being no sacrifice remaining. And that the person for whom there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin is the person who willfully sins. I'm amazed that you can't see these plain words.
     
  3. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    What comfort does a person gain from this? He's trampling on the Son of God. That's the point that needs to be addressed. Isn't it better to say to the willfully sinning 'Christian' that they are in unbelief? Whether or not they ever really believed does not change the fact that they are abusing the grace of God in unbelief and are going to hell if they remain in that unbelief. Let's focus on what matters here. OSAS is a curious, but meaningless argument. What's important is that we make sure we are saved and ready to be judged by Christ at the end of the age. Willful, deliberate sin is a sign you are not ready.

    The comfort and assurance of salvation comes from knowing you are really saved, not from never being able to lose your salvation. Whether it's a correct or incorrect teaching, that's not the point, OSAS deceives people into thinking they are 'okay' in their willful and deliberate sinning. Let's talk about what matters.....the willfully sinning person is on their way to hell.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  4. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    I can back up everything I say in here with Scripture...my lack Of response does not reflect that....it just reflects that I am doing my best to ignore you.....kinda like “ kicking the dust off of my feet”....
     
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  5. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    Yes...I knew I was taking a leap there....if it does not apply to “ her”, I can guarantee that MANY out there in the audience need to hear it....
     
  6. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    @

    What you posted here was mean......consider yourself reported to the Mods! Lol....
     
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  7. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I always think of judas with the warning passages in the book of Hebrews. judas was with the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE for 3 years but never knew Him like the other 11. He tasted of the heavenly gift. the powers to come and shared in the works of the Holy Spirit and could not find forgiveness for his sin of betrayal afterwards. Like judas there are many in the church today that are there for all the wrong selfish reasons and in the end it will cost them their salvation and forgiveness of sin.

    hope this helps !!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  8. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    .the willfully sinning person is on their way to hell.


    If this is true , we will ALL be meeting there someday....

    Let’s clarify something here, once and for all....before you report me to the Mods and get me kicked out....lol..

    “ IF” by “ Willfully Sinning”, you mean somebody that has Rejected the Gospel their Entire Lives and thereby has lived a life from birth to death as an UNBELIEVER .....you hit the nail on the head.....everybody in Hell is their for one reason....a complete lifetime of UNBELIEF....Jesus said you “ MUST” be Born Again....You become “ Born Again” the instant that you put your Trust in Jesus and HIM ONLY to Save you......At that exact moment you become “ Sealed” into the “ Body of Christ” where God, totally due to His Love and His Grace “ remembers your Sins no more” Once you are Baptized into “ The BODY of CHRIST”, NOTHING can take you from God’s Grip —- you are flat-out UNTOUCHABLE ! Saved forever or God is a Liar. And He ain’t.
    On the other hand, if by “ Willful Sinning” you mean that somebody sins on purpose— committing a Sin fully aware of what they are doing, like David did when he intentionally and willfully killed Bathsheba’s Husband to cover up his previous Willful Sin Of Adultery ( Thats TWO Biggies right there , for those that may be counting, btw ) —— if you are saying that those types of Sins are the Willful Sins That There is “ no sacrifice for”.... we have a problem.....
    The Shed Blood Of Jesus Christ is the Forever Essential and Adequate , ONE TIME “Elixir” For ALL manner of Sin .... If one does not Believe “ THAT” ....HE is the one “ Trampling the Blood” , considering it “ useless” .....and it that Blood does not cover the purposeful Sins Of David AND you and I and everybody else.....it “ IS” useless, because EVERYBODY “ willfully Sins” in that regard to “ that” meaning of “ willful sins”....
    There are going to be thousands of “ willful sins” on your Record when you stand before God on Judgement Day.....sins you were not aware of that you never Repented Of, and Sins , long-forgotten , that you “were” aware of when you committed them but that may have been so small you never even “ thought” about asking for Forgiveness for....
    Willful Sins.....Accidental Sins ....it makes no difference in the End.....you suffered the Consequences For them in your Earthly Lifetime ....There is a Heavenly Mercy Seat in Heaven that I Firmly believe will be within eyesight Of all people that stand before Jesus on Judgement Day ....That Mercy Seat has been sprinkled with the Absolute Holiest Thing in God's Great Universe....The SHED BLOOD of Jesus Christ .If not for that Shed Blood on that Mercy Seat....everybody ever born would be Damned.
    A Wise person will take note that there are not TWO Mercy Seats in Heaven.....one for accidental sins and another for purposeful sins......some sins are worse than others , and as I said, we receive the Chastisement due for them here on Earth while we are alive .To God However, Sin is Sin , and the Precious Shed Blood on that Mercy Seat obliterates them ALL! Yes, The Price for ALL SINS has been paid! —- EVERYBODY can be Saved and they can be ASSURED that they are Saved .....the Question is this—— did you “ Cash In” to what was already done FOR you with Faith in Jesus’ Finished Work at the Cross and the Blood That was Shed there or did you Reject it, essentially “ Trampling” that Shed Blood and counting it as “ Worthless” ....That's what it will ALL come down to .....God Bless ...
     
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  9. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    There is no disconnection sir. It appears there is to you perhaps. But I was not making a disconnection.

    If I’ll read the passage out from its proper context, I might agree with your take there that the judgment is the result of there being no sacrifice for sin. But not when taken in context and in the much broader context of Jesus’ sacrifice that the writer had finished explaining in v.18.


    As I said, if you understand what the sacrifice of Jesus had accomplished, you will have the light that will help you see what the passage is saying.

    <<<And that the person for whom there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin is the person who willfully sins. I'm amazed that you can't see these plain words.>>>

    It seems to be that you take the truth that there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins to only be true to the person who willfully sins and without consideration of context pertaining to the person. And it seems also that you take that there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins to be the result of his willful sinning. Let me ask, would it not matter in your take, whether the person who willfully sins is a Christian or an unbelieving Jew or is a Muslim or Buddhist? If it matters, then that must be taken into consideration, right? Now, if you did consider it, what is the person’s identity in your take? And on that same line, how about the context pertaining to the times? And how about the context pertaining to the person’s spiritual well being? Have you considered those as well? If so, can you tell us what they are so we can see where your take is coming from?

    Having considered all of those, how then could it be that there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins be the reason and result of his willful sinning? Can a person’s willful sinning affect the matter of whether there is still a sacrifice for sins or not? That in itself shows the error of such position.

    That the truth that there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin is because of and the result of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, being the once and for all sacrifice for sins. And that is well within the context.

    Tong
    R1447
     
  10. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    No, it doesn't matter. That's what I've been trying to say. Willful sin is unbelief no matter what religion you identify with. It's a rejection of God's forgiveness.

    The church has made the terrible mistake of using OSAS to make it so Hebrews 10:26 doesn't apply to them. And so they take false comfort in that. They are deceiving themselves. If they were truly saved they wouldn't be living in deliberate sin.

    1 John 3:9
    9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them
     
  11. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Well-Known Member

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    That is absolutely correct. There is no ministry in heaven for deliberate, willful sin. Time limitations had prevented me from posting the scriptures (again) that show us the clear distinction between intentional sin and turning your back on the covenant, and unintentional sin. God has provided a priest and ministry for the unintentional sin of the believer. But there is no priest and sacrifice provided for the person who turns their back on God by willfully sinning. Not in this Covenant, or in the old....

    Numbers 15:28-31
    28The priest is to make atonement before the Lord for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made, that person will be forgiven. 29One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.

    30“ ‘But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or foreigner, blasphemes the Lord and must be cut off from the people of Israel. 31Because they have despised the Lord’s word and broken his commands, they must surely be cut off; their guilt remains on them.’ ”



    Deuteronomy 29:19-20
    19When such a person hears the words of this oath and they invoke a blessing on themselves, thinking, “I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way,” they will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. 20The Lord will never be willing to forgive them; his wrath and zeal will burn against them. All the curses written in this book will fall on them, and the Lord will blot out their names from under heaven.


    Maybe you're thinking, "what does this have to do with us in this New Covenant and Hebrews 10:26-31?" Read vs. 28 right in the passage we've been discussing!

    vs. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

    See it? Trampling on the Son of God by willfully sinning is the equivalent of rejecting the New Covenant. There is no forgiveness for willfully and deliberately sinning in a rejection of the New Covenant. And the penalty is more severe for deliberately sinning in a rejection of this Covenant than it was for deliberately sinning in a rejection of the old covenant!

    The scary part is, the church doesn't think they are rejecting the New Covenant when they purposely and deliberately sin because the church has told them OSAS prevents Hebrews 10:26 from applying to them. They do not know that if they really had the 'saved' part of 'once saved always saved' they wouldn't be living in willful, deliberate sin. John said that, not me!

    1 John 3:9
    9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
     
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  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    All that is not of faith is sin, do you agree with this? Don't we choose to trust Jesus? Didn't God promise that no testing/tempting would be too much for us? Didn't God promise that He would always provide us with the exit into safety?

    So then, if tempted to sin, isn't it up to each of us who are born again to choose to trust God, and in trusting God, to so overcome that testing or tempting?

    I don't see how, if we have power over sin, that committing a sin does not involve my choice, if only in failing to act to prevent it.

    Much love!
     
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  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    For you, or any who find anything useful in something I write, bless you, and use it however you like!

    Much love!
     
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  14. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.



    That could be a “ Promise “—- not a threat! We are under Grace, NOT Law. Yet you see everything through a “lens” of Law ....try switching your Legal Lens for a Grace Lens....The Bible says that the Law is something that is fading away.....so are the legal lenses that were appropriate for that Fading System..
     
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  15. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    That’s sounds like not a good way to take scriptures. And the case at hand is a good example where the context pertaining to the person greatly affects interpretation of the passage.

    And how could it not matter when the passage says “For if we sin willfully AFTER RECEIVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH,...”? The sinning willfully is clearly tied up with the receiving of the truth. That alone makes it matter sir.

    <<<Willful sin is unbelief no matter what religion you identify with.>>>

    Willful sin is not necessarily unbelief. Have you not lied willfully? When an unbeliever willfully lies , is that sin unbelief? How about a Muslim, Buddhist, Satanist, Jew, atheist, when they willfully lie, is that unbelief? And how about their other sins, what are they? Not unbelief? Can a one who is already guilty of unbelief still get himself be guilty of unbelief by his willful sinning? Well,....

    <<<It's a rejection of God's forgiveness.>>>

    An unbeliever, Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, Satanist, atheist, when they willfully do evil, do so as a matter of rejecting God’s forgiveness? Wow! I feel silly even just typing this out.

    I noticed that instead of addressing my post completely, you just take a small part and then move on to bring a new issue. I hope you would try to address them too.

    What church are you saying are deliberately living in sin? And what has this got to do with our discussion? OSAS and all? I never even mentioned OSAS in any of our exchanges. Are you confusing me with someone else?

    Are you, by quoting 1 John 3:9, suggesting that the writer of Hebrews wrote the 10:26-29 passage to those who are not born of God, the unsaved? I am quite sure the writer of Hebrews knew of the truth written in 1 John 3:9. It would be senseless, if not foolish, that he writes to them, even counting himself their brethren saying “For if WE...”., and even exhorts them. Did he write that to try to persuade them to be born of God? Well, that’s what comes out of your take of “willful sin” or “willful sinning”, it seems to me.

    As much as there is not much to address of your post, may I ask:

    Being one born of God, was not there a time in your born again life, perhaps when you were yet a babe in the faith, that you were willfully sinning?

    It seems to me that with what you are saying about willful sin or willful sinning is that if one who, after having received the knowledge of the truth, had been guilty of willful sinning, he can go about doing whatever evil he feels like doing as nothing matters anymore, having no more sacrifice to offer to God to be forgiven. But yet even if there was, if it is not Christ, its no use.

    You seem to know a lot “ in the church” who are living in deliberate sin. What do you plan to do with them? Will you try and evangelize them or condemn them or just let them be? I am curious.

    Tong
    R1448
     
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  16. Tong2020

    Tong2020 Well-Known Member

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    I do! Amen!

    Yes, what you say there is responsibility as we are accountable of our actions. That is not quite the same with intentional or unintentional acts of sin, and not quite the same with sinful acts out of ignorance.

    So are you saying you don’t believe there is such a thing as unintentional sin? But I think you believe there is. Now, is an unintentional sin a willful sin? How about sin done in ignorance do you believe there is such a thing? Are you in the belief that innocent children don’t commit sinful acts?

    Among Christians, some are babes in the faith, some quite mature, some more mature, some have strong faith, some have weak faith, the point being is that Christians do not have the same situation, even while they have the same Holy Spirit that dwells in them. While they all have power to overcome sin, those differences affects their will in overcoming sin. That while they are not willing to do something sinful, they are easily forced to compromise and sin, especially when it’s a matter of life and death. Some find themselves forced to lie to save their innocent children from harm for example. Some babes in the faith commits sin out of ignorance or lack of knowledge. Such sins are either forced or unintentional or out of ignorance.

    Are you not still in your sinful flesh, were sin dwells? Paul wrote something like this:

    Romans 7:16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me......21...22....23....24....


    Paul, the apostle that he is, admits being guilty of sin, sin that he says he does not will to do and he says is not him who does it, but sin that dwells in him is the one who does it.

    Perhaps this somehow addressed your post.

    @Nancy

    Tong
    R1449
     
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  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures testify of Jesus (John 5:39-40). How is it that you have not received their testimony concerning Him?

    It says that their expectation is nothing but fearful judgment and fiery indignation that will devour the adversaries.

    The blood of Jesus does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:13, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

    Clearly, if someone sins willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth, their only expectation is fearful judgment and fiery indignation that is going to devour the adversaries.

    If I dream that I am doing something horrible, and then wake up and consider it to be a nightmare, I subconsciously sinned in my sleep but my sin was not conscious and neither was it deliberate. Therefore there is such a thing as sin that is not willful.
     
  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry if there is any confusion . . . I've just finished explaining how it is that I don't believe that you or I sin unknowingly, or without having the opportunity to avoid committing that sin.

    Are you saying that you think there are sins which you commit which you don't know about, and have no power over?

    Much love!
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    What sin is not willful?

    What sin do you commit that you are unaware of, and have no power over??

    There is none.

    So when you make this argument that there is this special classification of sin which will condemn you, I ask you . . . what sin is not willful?

    If you have power over sin, then it's up to you whether you sin or not. There is no such thing as "unwillful sin" for the child of God. You have power, therefore, you have choice.

    And you apparently have a view of God's reconciliation that it is weak, wishy-washy.

    I certainly do not share that view.

    Much love!
     
  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand. Bad dreams are sin?

    Much love!
     
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