If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree of knowledge, how could they know it was wrong to do so

[101G]

There's only one problem with your present tense premise behind, mother of all living. Adam and Eve did not procreate while in Eden.

First thanks for the reply, second, give scripture to that?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[WaterSong]

First thanks for the reply, second, give scripture to that?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Thanks for your response. The onus would be on you to give scripture that sustains your initial claim behind Genesis 3:20. That Adam and Eve did procreate before The Fall.
Adam and Eve were not mortal prior to the fall. They could not die physically nor spiritually until after consuming the forbidden fruit that brought sin into the world through that one man, Adam.
Cain, Able, etc... were born after the expulsion from the garden.Had a child been born to Adam and Eve while in the garden the child would not be mortal, nor would they have the capacity to sin, or have what some call the sin nature.

We'd have read when God banished Adam and Eve , the scripture would have said something like, and all their offspring. But it doesn't. Because Adam and Eve were not carnal, they were not mortal. Which is why, after eating the forbidden fruit they then realized they were naked. There was no such realization before because they were not mortal prior to eating the fruit.

Did Adam and Eve have children before the fall?

 

[101G]

The onus would be on you to give scripture that sustains your initial claim behind Genesis 3:20. That Adam and Eve did procreate before The Fall.

did you not read, and or understand post #117? read it again.

They were innocent and knew not lust. After they ate of the forbidden fruit they were expelled. That would be when they would know lust, because immediately after eating they realized they were naked and, unlike prior when they were naked, now felt shame for being nude.

knowing Nakedness have nothing to do with sex. before they knew that they was naked, they was commanded to replinish the earth. that's why people was on the earth before Cain and Able came along...."OUTSIDE" the Gaarden. suppotive scripture, Genesis 4:13 "And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear."Genesis 4:14 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."Genesis 4:15 "And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

"and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." ..... EVERY ONE?, yes the children Adam and Eve had in the garden before the fall, who now is, and had been in the ... earth.... yes those ... sons of God mention in chapter 6

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Hidden In Him]

Adam and Eve were not mortal before consuming the forbidden fruit. Why, after they did do that, was it wrong for them to be like "us" (God), knowing good and evil? If it was good enough for God to have knowledge why was it a damnable offense for Adam and Eve to have it too? When they were in may respects like unto God prior to eating the fruit, being in the spirit and one with God.

You suck, LoL.

The scripture says that Christ Jesus was in all ways tempted like us, yet without sin. In other words, whereas it did not and would not have ever tempted God to know about Satan, his demons, and their temptations, the same could not be said for Adam and Eve. They came about the knowledge of good and evil the hard way, by falling for the enemy's seductions, which is the wrong way to learn about them, don't you think? Sort of like the difference between someone who knows there's crime in Chicago so they take the proper precautions, vs. someone who learns there's crime in Chicago by going out on the streets and getting himself shot. They both wind up with the same knowledge, but one pays a much higher price for it, because he didn't listen to the guy that said, "Don't go out on the streets at night. There's evil people out there, and they'll put holes in you if they have something to gain from it."

Eve led? The scriptures say by one man sin entered the world.

Alright. Quit it, LoL. It entered through Adam because he listened to EVE. "... but the woman, being deceived, was in transgression." (2 Timothy 2:14).

Ever consider God could have made everything OK there if he'd not planted that one tree in the garden?
Or, if he'd have forgiven Adam and Eve for an ignorant innocent mistake when they did eat of it and because they were persuaded to that end by a wiser adversary God let into his garden? And this after he let him live having lost the war he started in Heaven against him. Then cast him down to earth to vex the human race God had yet to create?

Made everything "ok"? LoL.

Look, God had it in mind that all things would be subject TO CHRIST, and that though He would be "tempted in all parts similar to us," He would be without sin; and having died for us as the sinless and spotless lamb of God, He would be worthy to rule over the kingdom of God for the rest of eternity, and we would recognize Him as such. He was setting up an eternal kingdom, and in order to establish it in perpetuity, human pride and self-sufficiency would have to be put down, so that all things might be put under his feet, and every knee bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.

"Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream!" (Paddle Adam, paddle! Put your back into it boy! ) lol

Again... You suck, LoL. The full sentence is, "Put your back into it boy! You're on the Titanic, and thanks to truly superior leadership, you're about to be literally 'going down' in the annals of history as a colossal BONEHEAD because you made the mistake of listening to a woman! Keep paddling, you genius, but you're going down nonetheless."

 

[WaterSong]

You suck, LoL.

LOL

The scripture says that Christ Jesus was in all ways tempted like us, yet without sin. In other words, whereas it did not and would not have ever tempted God to know about Satan, his demons, and their temptations, the same could not be said for Adam and Eve. They came about the knowledge of good and evil the hard way, by falling for the enemy's seductions, which is the wrong way to learn about them, don't you think? Sort of like the difference between someone who knows there's crime in Chicago so they take the proper precautions, vs. someone who learns there's crime in Chicago by going out on the streets and getting himself shot. They both wind up with the same knowledge, but one pays a much higher price for it, because he didn't listen to the guy that said, "Don't go out on the streets at night. There's evil people out there, and they'll put holes in you if they have something to gain from it."

Let's go with the first part of your reply above. No, move past the suck part lol.

Wouldn't Jesus, who was God in flesh and fully divine and fully human, know about Satan and his fallen nature already? Satan in the temptation of Christ during his fast in the desert (Matthew 4) presented a language that made it appear he didn't know Jesus was divine. He didn't know Jesus was not a mere mortal.
Isn't that why Satan would preface every temptation with the words, if you are/be the son of God....
Whereas Jesus, who was also the father/God, knew full well that adversary that was attempting to lead him into sin. Which is why in his rebuff of Satan at one point he stated to Satan, it is written, thou must not tempt the Lord thy God, thou must not test the Lord thy God.
In essence therein informing Satan of his true identity.

Alright. Quit it, LoL. It entered through Adam because he listened to EVE. "... but the woman, being deceived, was in transgression." (2 Timothy 2:14).

Yes, that was the first and last time a husband listened and obeyed his wife. LOL ;)
How do we consolidate the woman, Eve, being deceived in her innocence by the wiser serpent having then transgressed? When she knew not the import of God's prior command.

Isn't this why, though no age is stated in scripture because each person matures at a different rate, innocent children are not considered to be sinners in their actions because they have not yet reached the age of accountability. That time when they are able to make an informed decision whether to obey or disobey.
How would Adam and Eve be accountable for their actions when they were innocent and unconscious of the dual nature, for lack of a different term, of good vs. evil?

Made everything "ok"? LoL.

Look, God had it in mind that all things would be subject TO CHRIST, and that though He would be "tempted in all parts similar to us," He would be without sin; and having died for us as the sinless and spotless lamb of God, He would be worthy to rule over the kingdom of God for the rest of eternity, and we would recognize Him as such. He was setting up an eternal kingdom, and in order to establish it in perpetuity, human pride and self-sufficiency would have to be put down, so that all things might be put under his feet, and every knee bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.

Think of that narrative while preceding it with the scripture that informs, all things are predestined (to happen, exist) by God according to his divine will and plan and zeal for his own glory.

Again... You suck, LoL. The full sentence is, "Put your back into it boy! You're on the Titanic, and thanks to truly superior leadership, you're about to be literally 'going down' in the annals of history as a colossal BONEHEAD because you made the mistake of listening to a woman! Keep paddling, you genius, but you're going down nonetheless."

*grabs hold of her own oar and says over her shoulder to the colossal bonehead rowing behind her, and remember, thanks to a woman you exist in order to be here to row.

By the way speaking of the Titanic? That iceberg was male! ;) HAHAHAHAHA
Personally, seriously, I think she was struck by a torpedo. They were sailing in conflict waters during wartime. And at a time when it was known to and on both sides of the conflict that passenger ships were often used, by the axis and also allies, to carry munitions and supplies for the war effort.

 

[101G]

Thanks for your response. The onus would be on you to give scripture that sustains your initial claim behind Genesis 3:20. That Adam and Eve did procreate before The Fall.
Adam and Eve were not mortal prior to the fall. They could not die physically nor spiritually until after consuming the forbidden fruit that brought sin into the world through that one man, Adam.
Cain, Able, etc... were born after the expulsion from the garden.Had a child been born to Adam and Eve while in the garden the child would not be mortal, nor would they have the capacity to sin, or have what some call the sin nature.

We'd have read when God banished Adam and Eve , the scripture would have said something like, and all their offspring. But it doesn't. Because Adam and Eve were not carnal, they were not mortal. Which is why, after eating the forbidden fruit they then realized they were naked. There was no such realization before because they were not mortal prior to eating the fruit.

Did Adam and Eve have children before the fall?

First, thanks for the reply, second, you're delusional. you have been reprove by the scriptures. as the scriptures states, Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"Titus 3:11 "Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

so see ya........ I gave you scripture, and you refuse... there is nothing left but, 1 Corinthians 5:5

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[WaterSong]

did you not read, and or understand post #117? read it again.

I did read it correctly the first time.
The curses put upon the woman and man, the womans suffering during childbirth to be greatly multiplied, were levied after their fall, eating of the fruit. Because they were now mortal Eve would feel pain, and Adam would struggle to till the earth in order to survive as a farmer.

knowing Nakedness have nothing to do with sex. before they knew that they was naked, they was commanded to replinish the earth. that's why people was on the earth before Cain and Able came along...."OUTSIDE" the Gaarden. suppotive scripture, Genesis 4:13 "And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear."Genesis 4:14 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."Genesis 4:15 "And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

"and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." ..... EVERY ONE?, yes the children Adam and Eve had in the garden before the fall, who now is, and had been in the ... earth.... yes those ... sons of God mention in chapter 6

In Genesis there are two distinct narratives as pertains to the creation of people. One description has God creating man and woman but they have no name. The other creation story is about Adam and Eve. (chapters Genesis 1 through chapter 5)
Are we to infer people populated the earth prior to Adam and Eve? And then something happened, making it necessary to create Adam and Eve so that they'd "replenish" the earth with their own kind? It is a topic that has been debated for centuries.
Replenish in the English language understanding refers to restoring, or refilling something.
Whereas in the Hebrew it means, to fill. Not refill.
מָלָא
Transliteration
male'
Pronunciation
mä·la' fill (107x), full (48x), fulfil (28x), consecrate (15x), accomplish (7x), replenish (7x), wholly (6x), set (6x), expired (3x), fully (2x), gather (2x), overflow (2x), satisfy (2x), miscellaneous (14x). [end of excerpt more at link]

Whatever the actual truth that God knows, what we do know is that Cain was the firstborn son of Adam and Eve. Which makes other people through their being fruitful and multiplying while spirits in the garden before the fall, either non-existent or not described in the word of God.

Genesis 4:Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.” And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell.

Genesis 5:This is the book of the generations of Adam. When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created. When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters. Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.

 

[WaterSong]

First, thanks for the reply, second, you're delusional. you have been reprove by the scriptures. as the scriptures states, Titus 3:10 "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;"Titus 3:11 "Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

so see ya........ I gave you scripture, and you refuse... there is nothing left but, 1 Corinthians 5:5

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You suffer the sin of pride and arrogance. You gave me scripture. Yet, you know not of what you speak.
And you refuse to be educated by those who do.
You call me heretic, by implication. I am not. However, you are ignorant. And arrogant about it and steeped in sin thinking to curse those who know more than you. That's pathetic.

So yes, it is best that you move on.
Now I do understand the import of your self-title, spiritual saboteur.

 

[Hidden In Him]

...move past the suck part lol.

I'm trying. I'm really, really trying. Trust me, LoL

Wouldn't Jesus, who was God in flesh and fully divine and fully human, know about Satan and his fallen nature already? Satan in the temptation of Christ during his fast in the desert (Matthew 4) presented a language that made it appear he didn't know Jesus was divine. He didn't know Jesus was not a mere mortal.
Isn't that why Satan would preface every temptation with the words, if you are/be the son of God....
Whereas Jesus, who was also the father/God, knew full well that adversary that was attempting to lead him into sin. Which is why in his rebuff of Satan at one point he stated to Satan, it is written, thou must not tempt the Lord thy God, thou must not test the Lord thy God.
In essence therein informing Satan of his true identity.

Yes. So Jesus knew already and we don't. It is supposed to be a lesson in trusting one's Lord and submitting. It's a beautiful word. Look it up, LoL.

Yes, that was the first and last time a husband listened and obeyed his wife. LOL ;)

At least somebody's learning something out there, LoL.

How do we consolidate the woman, Eve, being deceived in her innocence by the wiser serpent having then transgressed? When she knew not the import of God's prior command.

Isn't this why, though no age is stated in scripture because each person matures at a different rate, innocent children are not considered to be sinners in their actions because they have not yet reached the age of accountability.

Oh, for God's sakes! LoL. Would you stop wimping out and accept that she screwed up!! She ate it, ok? She heard, "Man, this fruit is gonna make me one serious butt-kicker of a woman," and said, "Gimme some of that! I want it now!," and then...

It was a NO, NO, ok? BAD WOMAN!

As a result, God's judgment? "Zip your flap, woman, and start submitting to your husband."

*grabs hold of her own oar and says over her shoulder to the colossal bonehead rowing behind her, and remember, thanks to a woman you exist in order to be here to row.

We were discussing Adam and Eve, not you and the pitiful bastard you've lured into this conversation, LoL!!!

Personally, seriously, I think she was struck by a torpedo. They were sailing in conflict waters during wartime. And at a time when it was known to and on both sides of the conflict that passenger ships were often used, by the axis and also allies, to carry munitions and supplies for the war effort.

A Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! And now we switch gears into a debate on historical accounts of what sank the Titanic, LoL. You are incredible.

The REAL lesson to be learned here. The dream:

The reality:

 

[101G]

You suffer the sin of pride and arrogance. You gave me scripture. Yet, you know not of what you speak.
And you refuse to be educated by those who do.
You call me heretic, by implication. I am not. However, you are ignorant. And arrogant about it and steeped in sin thinking to curse those who know more than you. That's pathetic.

So yes, it is best that you move on.
Now I do understand the import of your self-title, spiritual saboteur.

I will not argue with IGNORANCE.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[WaterSong]

I'm trying. I'm really, really trying. Trust me, LoL


Yes. So Jesus knew already and we don't. It is supposed to be a lesson in trusting one's Lord and submitting. It's a beautiful word. Look it up, LoL.


At least somebody's learning something out there, LoL.


Oh, for God's sakes! LoL. Would you stop wimping out and accept that she screwed up!! She ate it, ok? She heard, "Man, this fruit is gonna make me one serious butt-kicker of a woman," and said, "Gimme some of that! I want it now!," and then...

It was a NO, NO, ok? BAD WOMAN!

As a result, God's judgment? "Zip your flap, woman, and start submitting to your husband."


We were discussing Adam and Eve, not you and the pitiful bastard you've lured into this conversation, LoL!!!


A Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! And now we switch gears into a debate on historical accounts of what sank the Titanic, LoL. You are incredible.

The REAL lesson to be learned here. The dream:

The reality:

That last picture, LOL!

 

[Mayflower]

In the Bible, in the Garden of Eden, if the fruit of the Tree-of-Knowledge contains the knowledge of Good/Evil and Right/Wrong, then how could Adam and Eve have known it was “wrong” to disobey God and eat the fruit before they did? They couldn’t have known what right and wrong meant. Also if God had explained to Adam and Eve what right and wrong was before they ate of the fruit so that they would understand why it was wrong to eat the apple, then wouldn’t He have essentially given them the Knowledge that he had just forbidden them to have? Remember; THIS is the Original Sin, the basis for the need for salvation in all of Christianity.

Moreover, why did God put the Tree-of-Knowledge in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Especially if He knew what was going to happen? Isn’t he supposed to know everything that will ever happen? It would have been so easy just to place it on the other side of the world; or on the Moon for that matter.

So why did God not know that this fruit would be eaten, did God err?

Why?

Wisdom is a tough teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterwards.

Can I add a question though? If adam and eve had not sinned (and anyone else), would we have the same result only easier? Like physically, would Adam and Eve have died? Would there be no Hell?

 

[WaterSong]

Wisdom is a tough teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterwards.

Can I add a question though? If adam and eve had not sinned (and anyone else), would we have the same result only easier? Like physically, would Adam and Eve have died? Would there be no Hell?

No, I don't believe there would have been death.
While Hell per the scriptures was first made to receive Satan and his fallen angels. Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41)

Hell - Study Resources


This is an old recording and in today's terms 'went viral' when it was first made public. It has since been debunked. However, it is a fascinating composition for what it is said to have recorded.

 

[Mayflower]

No, I don't believe there would have been death.
While Hell per the scriptures was first made to receive Satan and his fallen angels. Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41)

Hell - Study Resources


This is an old recording and in today's terms 'went viral' when it was first made public. It has since been debunked. However, it is a fascinating composition for what it is said to have recorded.

YIKES

 

[WaterSong]

YIKES

I know. There are those who said the magnetic field that deep, I believe the Siberian miners had drilled something like 7 miles into the earth, would impact the quality of the original recording. Maybe that's why Art Bell, God rest him, had it cleaned up before airing?
Interestingly if you go to the YT page in the comments section below the video window, there's someone who caught an Arabic word in that cacophony; Ghofran.

T IR E L O N12 years ago
You can hear someone distinctly saying "Ghofran" (pronounced: GHOF-RAN), which in Arabic is a word used to "beg for forgiveness". This is very scary stuff folks.

 

[Mayflower]

I know. There are those who said the magnetic field that deep, I believe the Siberian miners had drilled something like 7 miles into the earth, would impact the quality of the original recording. Maybe that's why Art Bell, God rest him, had it cleaned up before airing?
Interestingly if you go to the YT page in the comments section below the video window, there's someone who caught an Arabic word in that cacophony; Ghofran.

T IR E L O N12 years ago
You can hear someone distinctly saying "Ghofran" (pronounced: GHOF-RAN), which in Arabic is a word used to "beg for forgiveness". This is very scary stuff folks.

Praise God for forgiveness

 

[WaterSong]

Praise God for forgiveness

Amen. :)

 

[Gideons300]

There is a larger question and this one is not about Adam and Eve.

How come God did not know what they would do? This is the equivalent of God testing himself, and he failed, just like you would fail if your invention stopped working

Why do you assume God did not know what they would do? Do you think God came to the garden in the cool of the day, only to find them hiding from Him, guilty of disobedience? Do you think it surprised Him and that He went back to the drawing board and thought up redemption through the death of Christ to "patch His creation up"? LOL.

Consider: Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. Everything that happened from the eating of the apple until now is within God's permissive will.

Do you realize we who are His have a higher place in God's plan than angels? They cannot understand the grace of God. It must be experienced. Diamonds cast upon a lighted background are pretty, but against black velvet, they glimmer in ways hidden previously.

What you are inquiring about is truly one of the great mysteries of life, and I do not mean to put you off with a simple "Trust God". But is that not exactly what faith does? When Mary and Martha waited anxiously for Jesus to come heal Lazarus, it seems like He purposely delayed His coming, and the faith of the two women were severely tested.... or so it seems.

The truth was, however, that their faith was going to be expanded! We all at present see through a glass darkly, to one degree or another. But knowing God's character and trusting Him is the greatest thing we can do in this life. Faith is the supreme act of worship.

Let us all know this. God has a plan. And that plan is approaching its climax, the final scene this side of Heaven. And trust me, it will amaze us when we see clearly the beauty of such wisdom, power and grace that is to be fully revealed as this plan unfolds.

This song deals with this exact subject. David Wilcox has a ministry to the lost through song, planting seeds along the way as he sings. I pray it blesses you.

Gids

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Hi Faithsong, and welcome to CB! :)
Can we equate being wrong with sin? And, the verse you quoted doesn't have Right/Wrong in it... I am wrong a lot, lol. I'm just not so sure they are the same things.
My take is that God wished for His creation to Love Him without forcing them to. He want's us to choose to love Him on our own so...free will has much to do with this too..
I believe God knows everything, from beginning to end. And, God never errs, ever.
We are not to know some things, I think. But we will see one day clearly :)
nancy

Isn't it reasonable to believe the tree of the knowledge of good and evil simply represented Gods right to determine what is good and evil for what he created, and as long as Adam chose not to eat of the forbidden fruit he's exercising faith out of love for the True God that God knows what's in the best interests(good) of his creation or what's not in the best interests(evil) of his creation because of the love the creator has for his creation. The fact that both Adam and Eve disobeyed this command shows that neither one of them had enough love for the True God to exercise such faith.

 

[Nancy]

Isn't it reasonable to believe the tree of the knowledge of good and evil simply represented Gods right to determine what is good and evil for what he created, and as long as Adam chose not to eat of the forbidden fruit he's exercising faith out of love for the True God that God knows what's in the best interests(good) of his creation or what's not in the best interests(evil) of his creation because of the love the creator has for his creation. The fact that both Adam and Eve disobeyed this command shows that neither one of them had enough love for the True God to exercise such faith.

Hi Barney,
No I do not think this un reasonable. You could be correct and I wrong.
Even today, I don't believe there is a person alive who can honestly say they Love God with ALL their heart, ALL their soul, ALL their mind and strength.

Some might even say that how can one know what true good is without evil. Not so sure Adam and Eve had "knowledge" of right/wrong, good/bad or even faith!

I still believe there are things we just do not know for certain, and this is one of them for myself.

Gods blessings!
nancy