Hebrews 10:26-31

[Ferris Bueller]

Again . . . I don't think you understand what justification is. What rebirth is. I think we should talk about those things.

Much love!

I think you don't know what it means to be righteous. It's not just a legal declaration of innocence.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7

 

[marks]

If I understand your argument correctly you are saying sin in the believer does not come from the born again part of them, but from the flesh, and so it is in that way that they do not sin (even though they sin). The problem with that interpretation is the passage itself says the sinning that the righteous person doesn't do means literally not doing sinful things, and the sinning the unrighteous person does means literally doing sinful things.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil... 1 John 3:7-8

Therefore it is no longer I that sin, but sin which lives in me.

What does this mean?

Much love!

 

[marks]

....as opposed to when a person sins just because they want to. That's the willful sinning of Hebrews 10:26. Whether it's the willful and deliberate sin of rejecting the gospel, or the willful and deliberate 'just because I want to' sin of lust, or theft, or lying, it's all a profaning of the blood of Christ through which you have been sanctified, rejecting it as if it was just an ordinary and useless thing. In plain language it's a turning away from the sacrifice of Christ in willful unbelief.

Because you've been fooled into something doesn't mean you don't choose it.

You can be fooled into thinking you have to steal to be able to eat, but you then go on to choose to steal. Because you've been deceived, you make the wrong choice.

This seems to elementary, I think we really need to start at the beginning, with, what exact does it mean to be "saved".

Much love!

 

[marks]

The confused believer does not understand

What I'm seeing are fundamental misunderstandings about what justification and rebirth are.

We really need to start at beginner's level.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think you don't know what it means to be righteous. It's not just a legal declaration of innocence.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7

We all have our opinions, don't we?

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

You're certainly entitled to believe that. The important thing is that the church understand you must be a believer in this life to inherit the kingdom in the next. Many Christians are buying into the false teaching that they are still saved even if they deny Christ in this life.

Yes I am. Truth is ever important to the child of God. No truth is of no importance to him.

The teaching that one who denies Christ is saved is definitely a false teaching.

Tong
R1540

 

[Tong2020]

Therefore it is no longer I that sin, but sin which lives in me.

What does this mean?

Much love!

I hope you can get answers. For it seems many don’t really pay much attention to Romans 7:17&20. It speaks of a truth regarding the man. And this truth leads to more truths concerning the fallen state and nature of man, the salvation work of God in Christ, and more.

Tong
R1541

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ditto for Corinthians.

<<<...you have to keep in memory the gospel you heard and believed to be saved>>>

I disagree. One is saved not by anything he does, such as that.

Tong
R1528

You are saved through your believing. That's not even remotely the same as being saved through your works of the law. Works of the law can not remove sin/sin guilt. God's forgiveness can. It's the only thing that can. Believing in God's forgiveness is how you access that forgiveness and are saved. That's what you 'do' to be saved. That's not a works gospel. You're not earning it by believing in it.

You and many other Christians say believing and works of the law are the same thing, because they are both something you do. But the works gospel is not defined as 'what you do to be saved'. It's defined as working the works of the law to be saved. Believing is not included in that......

....to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5

See, working and trusting God are two different things. But you have a theology that says they are the same thing.

 

[marks]

I hope you can get answers. For it seems many don’t really pay much attention to Romans 7:17&20. It speaks of a truth regarding the man. And this truth leads to more truths concerning the fallen state and nature of man, the salvation work of God in Christ, and more.

Tong
R1541

These are the truths which set us free. That God has already given to us complete liberty from everything that would be against us.

Whenever we find a Scripture that cannot be accepted into our doctrine on it's face value, that's a really good reason to rethink!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Gnosticism.

"Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only."

What is Christian Gnosticism? | GotQuestions.org

Are you thinking @mjrhealth believes in the recalcitrant demiurge who created evil matter, which will come to no longer exist once we've been able to escape it?

Or are you just trying to impugn his view by unfairly comparing him to a known false religion?

Much love!

 

[marks]

What is Christian Gnosticism? | GotQuestions.org

Answer: There is actually no such thing as Christian Gnosticism, because true Christianity and Gnosticism are mutually exclusive systems of belief.

From the link.

 

[marks]

26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. Matthew 23:26

But Gnosticism says if the inside of the cup is clean then the outside of the cup doesn't matter. If the inside of the cup is clean the outside of the cup will be too.

Still with the Gnosticism? I'd suggest learning what Gnosticism actually is, so you will realize how this is not accurate, and only smears.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You've rejected the parts of the Bible that tell us we make our calling and election sure by what we do, and that we should do that. How is that you knowing your Bible and me not?

You make my point....I don’t “ reject “anything that’s in Scripture .... you merely think that I do....I got things that I believe that YOU reject.....so there you go....my point is made...

 

[marks]

you have to keep in memory the gospel you heard and believed to be saved, and that it is possible to fall away

Rather,

1 Peter 1:3-5
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

You do not "keep yourself saved". God does that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes I read Romans 6:6 sir. It's just that I don't have the same reading as you. It does not say that the body of sin that was done away with, but the old man. Do you not realize, that all believers are still with their sinful flesh, the body of death? If your reading is correct then, that would not be the case. They all should be physically dead, their flesh (body) no more.

The idea here isn't that the body of sin is gone, instead, it is made powerless.

So while we still live in our flesh bodies, those bodies no longer have any power over us.

We use to be in flesh, now we are in Spirit. That is, we used to derive our life from being creatures of flesh, with mind and personality, and appetites of flesh. Now we derive our life from the Holy Spirit, being children of God, who live in those corrupted flesh bodies.

While we used to just do whatever that body and flesh mind wanted, now we are brand new creatures, and those bodies have no more power over us. We are completely and perfectly free to live according to our new life, that is, live as Christ.

Coming to live according to this new state of being is the renewing of the mind. Learning to think the new way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I hope you can get answers. For it seems many don’t really pay much attention to Romans 7:17&20. It speaks of a truth regarding the man. And this truth leads to more truths concerning the fallen state and nature of man, the salvation work of God in Christ, and more.

Tong
R1541

I hope my questions are seriously considered.

In saying, "It is no longer", this means something changed. It used to be Paul sinning, now it's not. How could that be?

If it was Paul sinning, and now it's not, but now there is "sin that lives in me", the change is a separation from Paul, and the sinner.

Once we can get a hold of the change God made in us, in regenerating us, these endless arguments over children of God spiritually dying can be put to rest.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are saved through your believing. That's not even remotely the same as being saved through your works of the law. Works of the law can not remove sin/sin guilt. God's forgiveness can. It's the only thing that can. Believing in God's forgiveness is how you access that forgiveness and are saved. That's what you 'do' to be saved. That's not a works gospel. You're not earning it by believing in it.

You and many other Christians say believing and works of the law are the same thing, because they are both something you do. But the works gospel is not defined as 'what you do to be saved'. It's defined as working the works of the law to be saved. Believing is not included in that......

....to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5

See, working and trusting God are two different things. But you have a theology that says they are the same thing.

It's a work just the same if you think you have to keep making it happen to keep being saved.

The difference is how you think of it.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's a work just the same if you think you have to keep making it happen to keep being saved.

The difference is how you think of it.

Much love!

Show me in the Bible that trusting in Christ is me trying to save myself in a works gospel which I can boast about.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No, the Galatians themselves were under the curse of the law, too—the curse of trying to be justified by works of the law and not being able to do all the works of the law........

Galatians 3:10
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.



What you say illustrates the danger of the saved person who falls away from grace, for whatever the reason, but who still thinks they're going to be saved when Jesus comes back when you're really not. I wonder if any of the Galatians came to their senses and got right with God before they died. Some say since they were true believers they would have. Others say since they fell away they were never really saved to begin with. But the important point here is they were accursed because they were relying on a way to be justified that simply does not succeed and so they were not going to inherit the kingdom in the condition they were in.

Two different groups of people ....two different descriptions of those people.....

One group “Added to the Gospel” ......Paul said they were “ Fallen from Grace” , maybe damned or maybe not....I and many others see “ wiggle room “ for these types......I don’t believe they are Lost , but that’s just my personal opinion...I could just as easily teach the other way, I think....
I will offer this: If “ Fallen from Grace” means Damnation, and if all that one has to do to “ BE” in that condition is to ADD to the Gospel with ANYTHiNG ( Repenting From all sins before you die , for example ) 90% of the Church World is going to Hell! That “ Narrow Way” That Jesus referred to is REALLY gonna be Narrow.....
The Second Group went beyond just “ buying into” a False Gospel —- They actually TAUGHT that Perverted Gospel .....there is no possibility of any “ wiggle room” for this second group—- Paul clearly stated that they were “ Accursed” —- Damned forever.....
Many that post here are “ Fallen from Grace” and never realize it....The Gospel is “ JESUS SAVES.PERIOD......The FALSE GOSPEL of Additions says , “ Why Sure, Jesus Saves, But once you know THAT you gotta ....( insert your Favorite Gospel Addition here )
If you maintain that JESUS SAVES ...”BUT” .....as in —- “Jesus Saves BUT , ya gotta Repent Of all of your sins before you die” or if you claim that “ Jesus Saves BUT , ya gotta keep all of the Commandments” or if you say , “ Jesus Saves, BUT ya gotta refrain from any Willful Sins in your lifetime because the Blood is too weak to cover those”........
If you adhere to any of the above “ False Gospels” ( and those are only a few of them)..... you would be Well-Advised to read the Book Of Galatians to make up your OWN mind as to how much “trouble” you are in . I can assure you of “ this” much——You “ ARE” in Trouble!
God has provided the Elixir for getting out of “ Trouble” ......as a matter of fact, he COMMANDS that you do it——- REST in the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing....Try to actually BELIeVE that Song that you have sung like a hypocrite all Of these years—- “ NOTHING But The Blood”.....God Bless...

 

[marks]

Show me in the Bible that trusting in Christ is me trying to save myself in a works gospel which I can boast about.

What I'm saying is, if you think that it's on you to maintain faith in Christ, so that your salvation continues, then you are looking at this as a reward for performance. "I've kept my faith, so, because of that, I remain saved". That's how you can turn faith into works.

Much love!