Hebrews 10:26-31

[mjrhealth]

Thank you for complimenting me as having wisdom.

If you read that as a comliment you have no discernment not a bit

as for this bit

Rom 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

For onee who densies hearing His voice is the evidence you dont hear from Him, unless you have decided you do hear voices in your head, you shouldnt be so quick to throw scripture around you are doing yourself a great disservice,

be careful that rock doesnt fall upon you.

 

[Tong2020]

See Romans 8:9...

Rom 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Since you mentioned nothing about Romans7:17 and 20, it seems then to me that you either understood what they say but just not accept them, or you did not understand what truth Paul was saying there concerning the flesh.

What are your answer to my very simple and easy questions?

Was Paul then yet in his sinful flesh?
Are you yet with you sinful flesh?

I have read Romans 8:9 and I don’t see what that does have to do with what Paul said concerning the flesh.

Tong
R1525

 

[Tong2020]

If you read that as a comliment you have no discernment not a bit

as for this bit


For onee who densies hearing His voice is the evidence you dont hear from Him, unless you have decided you do hear voices in your head, you shouldnt be so quick to throw scripture around you are doing yourself a great disservice,

be careful that rock doesnt fall upon you.

I think jbf thinks that having the sinful flesh is the same as walking according to the flesh.

Tong
R1526

 

[mailmandan]

John 8:31-36 does not bear out that those who believed in Jesus were still slaves to sin.

Be sure to continue to read from verse 31 all the way through verse 59. Jesus clearly calls them out.

I believe that the people you are speaking about here were distinctly different from the people who had believed on Christ.

John 8:31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?” (same group of people)

34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 Now the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you really will be free. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you are seeking to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak of the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I say the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 The one who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

48 The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not rightly say that You are a Samaritan, and You have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; on the contrary, I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 But I am not seeking My glory; there is One who seeks it, and judges. 51 Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone follows My word, he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets as well; and yet You say, ‘If anyone follows My word, he will never taste of death.’ 53 You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are You? The prophets died too. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him. And if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you; but I do know Him, and I follow His word. 56 Your father Abraham was overjoyed that he would see My day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” 57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and left the temple grounds.

John 8:31 - “If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples." Those who don't continue in His word are not truly His disciples.

Case in point: they believed and yet they didn't believe?

There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in Christ unto salvation/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not in Christ) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. *Take note that the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used both in James 2:19 and Acts 16:31, so not all belief is exactly the same. So would you use the same logic for the demons in James 2:19? They believed and yet they didn't believe? What is the content that is believed? Not all belief is rooted in a regenerate heart and is unto salvation.

 

[Behold]

Salvation is THROUGH faith.

Yes.
Salvation is FINISHED =through faith.

God sees the faith in your heart when you first believed, and SAVED YOU.

Its DONE. = born again.

See, faith is not the savior.
God is the savior, and He (not faith)... saved you, (if you are born again) through your faith...one time. = born again.

ITs like putting gas into your tank through the HOSE.
The hose is not the gas.
Faith is the hose..
Gas is the salvation.

see it?

"grace Through-......= God saving through it.....or to accept it to then SAVE YOU.

Faith is not the savior.
Stop trusting in Faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Those questions of Paul in Gal. 3:2-3 to them does not make of them to be genuine believers sir. A pastor asking those to the local church, would that mean they are genuine believers? Nope.

The same with 1 Cor.15:1, not that Paul call them brothers and sisters make of them genuine believers. And not that they were said to have received the gospel, necessarily mean they are genuine believers sir.

The point remains, no one knows the heart of man except God, one like you could be certain that another is a genuine believer or not.

Tong
R1505

2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? a 4Have you experienced b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? Galatians 3:2-5

"receive the Spirit"
"God give(s) you his Spirit"
"After beginning by means of the Spirit"

These all indicate Paul is delivering his message to whom he considers to be Galatians who believed and were saved. Even if they were only really saved in his own mind, as you are suggesting (because he can't know for sure), he is delivering a message that you would deliver to people who had believed and were saved but who have fallen away to some other gospel. See, what you're saying is he's giving that message to the wrong audience—an audience that's never been truly saved. But even if that's true, that does not make what he's says about people who genuinely believed and were saved false. Just because he misjudged his audience, as you suggest, that does not change the truthfulness of what you say to people who really believed but have turned to to another gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? a 4Have you experienced b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? Galatians 3:2-5

"receive the Spirit"
"God give(s) you his Spirit"
"After beginning by means of the Spirit"

These all indicate Paul is delivering his message to whom he considers to be Galatians who believed and were saved. Even if they were only really saved in his own mind, as you are suggesting (because he can't know for sure), he is delivering a message that you would deliver to people who had believed and were saved but who have fallen away to some other gospel. See, what you're saying is he's giving that message to the wrong audience—an audience that's never been truly saved. But even if that's true, that does not make what he's says about people who genuinely believed and were saved false. Just because he misjudged his audience, as you suggest, that does not change the truthfulness of what you say to people who really believed but have turned to to another gospel.

Ditto for the Corinthians.

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Even if they never really believed, that does not change the fact that you have to keep in memory the gospel you heard and believed to be saved, and that it is possible to fall away (he says they have fallen away by turning to another gospel that does not have a risen savior).

 

[justbyfaith]

Stop trusting in Faith.

I would say, Have faith in God; for by grace are ye saved through faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Since you mentioned nothing about Romans7:17 and 20, it seems then to me that you either understood what they say but just not accept them, or you did not understand what truth Paul was saying there concerning the flesh.

What are your answer to my very simple and easy questions?

Was Paul then yet in his sinful flesh?
Are you yet with you sinful flesh?

I have read Romans 8:9 and I don’t see what that does have to do with what Paul said concerning the flesh.

Tong
R1525

Romans 7:17 and 20 is part of a whole passage that is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION to define carnality in order to reach the carnal believer so that they can graduate into Romans chapter 8.

Therefore Romans 7:17 and 20 is speaking of the man that is carnal; not of the spiritual man.

(Compare Romans 7:17 and 20 to Romans 6:6)

That there is a spiritual man as opposed to carnal is evident in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think jbf thinks that having the sinful flesh is the same as walking according to the flesh.

If you read my posts for any length of time I don't think you would come to that conclusion.

I am constantly teaching about how, though we all have indwelling sin(1 John 1:8), we do not have to obey it as a principle because it can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nothing to do with isms its the truth, so few really believe in the resurrected Jesus , the"finished" works of the cross, seems Gods work with Christ isnt finished and its up to men to do it themselves, Apparently according to christianity, they did a lousy job. You may as well join the SDAS and pretend to keep the law if it will be of any help to your flesh

It amazing how many Christians hear, "works show you are saved" as "works make you saved". Even after explaining it in detail they still can't see the difference.

If you can't show by your behavior that you are saved, you may not be. You can't fix your lostness and your lack of works by doing works, so it's not about that, lol. That won't work because that's the problem—you don't have the transformed nature in salvation from which to perform works of righteousness! Your life proves it. So this has nothing to do with an unsaved person manufacturing works in order to be saved, lol. This is about knowing if you are truly saved or not, or fallen away, by if you have an untransformed nature that willfully and deliberately sins in the face of God's grace.

True believing people do not live in purposeful and deliberate defiance of God's grace. If you or I are doing that we are not believing. Instead, we are living in resistance to the grace of God, treating it with contempt in a choice to not believe and trust in it. Hebrews 10:27 says the penalty for doing that is the fiery wrath of God reserved for the enemies of God (not his children) because you do not have the sacrifice of Christ to protect you from God's wrath. How can you? You don't believe in it. So repent while you still can if anyone reading this is doing that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes.
Salvation is FINISHED =through faith.

God sees the faith in your heart when you first believed, and SAVED YOU.

Its DONE. = born again.

See, faith is not the savior.
God is the savior, and He (not faith)... saved you, (if you are born again) through your faith...one time. = born again.

ITs like putting gas into your tank through the HOSE.
The hose is not the gas.
Faith is the hose..
Gas is the salvation.

see it?

"grace Through-......= God saving through it.....or to accept it to then SAVE YOU.

Faith is not the savior.
Stop trusting in Faith.

You have to keep believing to be saved.

2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:2

In your analogy that means you have to stay hooked up to the gas hose (faith) through which the grace of God comes to a person.

You can argue that truly saved people will always believe. And you can argue that "otherwise, you have believed in vain" means you didn't really believe to begin with (it does not, but that's another subject). But neither of those change the fact that you have to keep in memory the true gospel to be saved. You can not cast it aside in favor of another gospel, or no gospel at all, and still be saved as your theology insists. We have the clear words of Paul to show the error of that theology.

 

[justbyfaith]

For onee who densies hearing His voice

I have heard His voice at a time when He came to me in the flesh while I was sleeping and whispered into my ear, "I love you very much."

unless you have decided you do hear voices in your head,

I used to hear voices in my head quite often, but medicine has helped to stop that from occurring.

I will say that for the most part, voices that you hear in your head are from the enemy. That has been my experience in testing the spirits to see whether they are from God (1 John 4:1-3).

 

[Tong2020]

2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? a 4Have you experienced b so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? Galatians 3:2-5

"receive the Spirit"
"God give(s) you his Spirit"
"After beginning by means of the Spirit"

These all indicate Paul is delivering his message to whom he considers to be Galatians who believed and were saved. Even if they were only really saved in his own mind, as you are suggesting (because he can't know for sure), he is delivering a message that you would deliver to people who had believed and were saved but who have fallen away to some other gospel. See, what you're saying is he's giving that message to the wrong audience—an audience that's never been truly saved. But even if that's true, that does not make what he's says about people who genuinely believed and were saved false. Just because he misjudged his audience, as you suggest, that does not change the truthfulness of what you say to people who really believed but have turned to to another gospel.

First, I have to say that the idea that Paul misjudged them, is coming from you, not me. I never suggested something to that effect. What I was saying is that Paul nor anyone for that matter, can’t know with certainty whether they were genuine believers or not. That isn’t an opinion but is truth. There is no argument that one could make to go around that or turn that around.

Paul wrote to rebuke them for turning to another gospel than that they have received from them. By doing so, he effectively puts their faith in question. It’s like asking, did you understand the gospel you receive from us? Did you truly believed it or not? If there is any indication there, it is that Paul is having doubts concerning that.

While Paul regarded them as his true brothers in Christ, Paul knows that they are not necessarily true believers, so that he writes to them like so, as to have them examine themselves, their faith.

Tong
R1527

 

[mjrhealth]

I used to hear voices in my head quite often, but medicine has helped to stop that from occurring.

Well now you have become deaf

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[mjrhealth]

You have to keep believing to be saved.

Oh so its all about "you". isnt that what religion is, all about you.

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

that is why their is only one sin that can separate you from God, just one...

 

[Tong2020]

Ditto for the Corinthians.

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Even if they never really believed, that does not change the fact that you have to keep in memory the gospel you heard and believed to be saved, and that it is possible to fall away (he says they have fallen away by turning to another gospel that does not have a risen savior).

Ditto for Corinthians.

<<<...you have to keep in memory the gospel you heard and believed to be saved>>>

I disagree. One is saved not by anything he does, such as that.

Tong
R1528

 

[justbyfaith]

Well now you have become deaf

Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

No; apparently you need mental health treatment.

I will pray for you that you can get the help that you need.

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh so its all about "you". isnt that what religion is, all about you.

2Ti_2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

that is why their is only one sin that can separate you from God, just one...

In the verse previous: if we deny Him, He will also deny us.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Ferris Bueller<<<...you have to keep in memory the gospel you heard and believed to be saved>>>

Tong2020 <<<<I disagree. One is saved not by anything he does, such as that.>>>>

What @Ferris Bueller said is what the Bible teaches.