Human Freewill the devil's greatest trick

[Marymog]

You would think freewill was written in every chapter and every paragraph of the bible, in fact there are just a few mentions in the OT and these all have regard to freewill offerings because God never demands back any gifts He has given.

You cannot read any book or pamphlet on the subject of science without you soon encounter an affirmation of evolution, it is pure brainwash and it works.

You cannot read hardly any book or pamphlet about christianity without encountering an affirmation of human freewill, it is pure brainwash.

Jesus never spoke of it, nor did any of His apostles.

There is everywhere the choice obey and live or perish.

This is not freewill, if we obey we will be doing God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

What makes freewill impossible is the penalty for non obedience i.e. death. When the devil said "you will not die you will be like God ..." He not only made God out to be a liar but he tricked them into believing they had freewill.

He still works this deception today.

Hey Billy,

Soooooo God had you write this? You didn't write it of your own freewill?

Curious Mary

 

[Billy Evmur]

Hey Billy,

Soooooo God had you write this? You didn't write it of your own freewill?

Curious Mary

Either I wrote it according to God's will or according to "my own freewill". Whatever we preach is to be weighed by the church.

 

[Billy Evmur]

What about the Unbelievers?
Does He "will in them also" to do His good pleasure?
Really?

The NT says that the Holy Spirit DRAWS you.......He convicts the conscience..= where freewill exists...
Jesus said that if He is "LIFTED UP"< on the CROSS = He will draw all men to Himself.

So, why is it that if ALL MEN are drawn to the Cross, according to Jesus....not all men trust Christ and are born again?

A.) FREE WILL = Choice.

All men are drawn to Christ, some to salvation but others to condemnation.

The implication of your post is that those who trust Him "of their own freewill" do so according to some wisdom or virtue they have which those who reject Him do not have. But Paul says no good thing dwelleth in us that is in our flesh.

 

[Renniks]

Either I wrote it according to God's will or according to "my own freewill". Whatever we preach is to be weighed by the church.

No, the only possiblitiy in your theology is God did it.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Im not a Hyper Calvinist.
I understand that you can't "believe" unless you have the right to do it.
Its the right of choice, which is free will, that God accepts as Faith or accepts as Christ rejection.

Everyone who ends up in heaven, chose it.
Everyone who ends up in hell, chose it.

God said..>"let us make man in OUR Image"... So, if man does not have freewill, then God also does not have freewill.

Ephesians 2. 4-5.
But God who is rich in mercy out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in trespasses and sins made us ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

verse 9.
For by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not of your own doing it is the gift of God.

God made Adam and Eve in His own image but we are born in Adam's fallen image with his fallen nature.

 

[Billy Evmur]

I figured that was where you were headed with this.

To be clear, you believe in predestination?

To be clear I do ... the question is predestined and chosen unto what?

 

[Billy Evmur]

No, the only possiblitiy in your theology is God did it.

Not at all, I have been set FREE, before I was in bondage and a slave, I was bound to sin and I was bound to die.

All men have a will, but outside of Christ it is not free.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not to surprising..

 

[Billy Evmur]

Not to surprising..

View attachment 13283

ya think Paul was a wolf?

... do sheep have freewill?

 

[Grailhunter]

ya think Paul was a wolf?

... do sheep have freewill?

What is funny, is that you think people do not know about you....

 

[Stumpmaster]

Exactly again, Behold.

As you may be aware the verses below can be said to contain a sorites.

so·ri·tes | \ sə-ˈrī-(ˌ)tēz \
plural sorites
Definition of sorites
: an argument consisting of propositions so arranged that the predicate of any one forms the subject of the next and the conclusion unites the subject of the first proposition with the predicate of the last
First Known Use of sorites
1551, in the meaning defined above

History and Etymology for sorites
Latin, from Greek sōritēs, from sōros heap
Definition of SORITES


Rom 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Foreknown, so Predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ, Predestinated et al so Called, Called so Justified, Justified so Glorified.

 

[Stumpmaster]

God made Adam and Eve in His own image but we are born in Adam's fallen image with his fallen nature.

Who do you think is to blame for the Fall?

 

[Marymog]

Either I wrote it according to God's will or according to "my own freewill". Whatever we preach is to be weighed by the church.

So Billy....do you believe you have freewill or not???

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry. But . . . I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm just a reporter telling what the Bible has to say. A sober reading of the entire Bible should lead anyone to the same conclusion. There's no way around the fact that God has a Plan and that it WILL be fulfilled regardless of the power that asleep humans think that they possess.

It will be fulfilled

even with our free will

God has more power than you think man. You claim to be reporting what the Bible ie says and seem to judge everyone who does not agree with you of not listening to the word, you need to look in the mirror, and stop with the strawman.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You nailed it! True Christians want nothing to do with making their own choices because human choices and reasoning leads to trouble. Awesome!

It does not mean they are NT forced to make choices

what your offering is a cop out, a reason to deny what you do wrong on a daily basis is not your fault you had no choice,

your in effect blaming God for the evil choices you make

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually, He found them and told them to follow him, and some dropped their nets without question. Yes, they did follow Him much like a puppet.

John 15:16 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."

I've got about 270 Scriptural references to the control of God. Our God controls entire nations, thus controlling one mind is nothing.

God will not force you to do something against your will, you can not find one verse which says thos

 

[Behold]

Behold, I am only going to say this 150 times!
It all double talk!
It is wrong and evil thinking.
Elect...ahhh! Do you think you are special from among Christian?
If God knew how it was all going to turn out and made no changes, then it is not predestination. No need to predestinate.
This theology is an attempt to deceive. An attempt to edify people that think they are special.
It is a religion of lies! But people escape those lies and tell of the treachery that lays beneath, in league with the devil.
And I have put a few of them in jail myself.

God accepts Faith to give you His Righteousness.
He does not cause it, ...>He Accepts it.
"faith is accepted AS Righteousness".

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD" and it was counted to him as Righteousness.

God would not set up a Blood atonement, complete with a Bloody Savior nailed to a Tree that you have to BELIEVE IN,.... and if you dont, you are this... John 3:36. = Damned.
Or as Jesus said..>"if you do not BELIEVE IN ME, you will die in your SINS"..

So, see that?
If God forced you or caused you, or made you..believe,.... then He would not be asking you for Faith, as you'd already have it, because He forced you to have it.
But He doesn't.
He only requires it, and lets you decide.

Think of it like this... In the Garden of Eden, God said. "of all the trees you may eat of their fruit" except for this One Tree.
So, if they had no Free Will, then why did they do what God said not to do?
Did God make them eat it so that He could blame them = dishonestly,?
Did God cause them to eat it so that He could cause the fall of man,?
Ummmmm?
Not quite.
So, its the same with "all who BELIEVE on Jesus, shall be saved".

"faith COMES by HEARING".....it does not come by God forcing you.

To BELIEVE= requires Free will.

 

[David H.]

You would think freewill was written in every chapter and every paragraph of the bible, in fact there are just a few mentions in the OT and these all have regard to freewill offerings because God never demands back any gifts He has given.

You cannot read any book or pamphlet on the subject of science without you soon encounter an affirmation of evolution, it is pure brainwash and it works.

You cannot read hardly any book or pamphlet about christianity without encountering an affirmation of human freewill, it is pure brainwash.

Jesus never spoke of it, nor did any of His apostles.

There is everywhere the choice obey and live or perish.

This is not freewill, if we obey we will be doing God's will, if we die, dead men do not have freewill.

What makes freewill impossible is the penalty for non obedience i.e. death. When the devil said "you will not die you will be like God ..." He not only made God out to be a liar but he tricked them into believing they had freewill.

He still works this deception today.

God does not want subjects who are forced to love Him or else, But want us to choose to follow him. He gave us the free gift of salvation, Nothing owed in return and nothing earned, We choose what to do with that gift, to love him and obey Him, or to neglect that gift with complacency and worldly living. God is sovereign, and he has predestined all, and knows all, But he wants us to discover this ourselves, and choose Him over the things of this world. This is the difference between a person of faith and a saint, The latter has made the choice to serve him in all things.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1-2)

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. (Luke 9:24)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18)

If You are given a gift, say you and your wife are given a gift of money at your wedding, the gift is yours, what you do with that money is up to you. You can spend it on Lottery tickets, or invest it, Buy things you need, throw a big party, buy a boat.... You have free will what to do with that gift. Some decisions are fruitful, others are not fruitful. It is the same thing with the grace of God, do we just do nothing with this gift, or worse do we do something evil with this gift, or do we do the right thing and have the grace of God Grow in our lives and those around us.

True virtue is having the choice to do good and evil with no repurcussions and choosing to do Good, God enables this with His free gift of salvation to whosoever believes in the Son. We choose to believe, and we choose to serve freely, these are the righteous deeds of the saints.

 

[Behold]

All men are drawn to Christ, some to salvation but others to condemnation.

The implication of your post is that those who trust Him "of their own freewill" do so according to some wisdom or virtue they have which those who reject Him do not have. But Paul says no good thing dwelleth in us that is in our flesh.

"freewill" is not a wisdom, and its not a virtue.
Its an ability that God possess, that He imparted into humans when we were made as Genesis states : "in Our Image".

Its one of those divine qualities that we are given that is connected to our conscience.

 

[Behold]

Ephesians 2. 4-5.
But God who is rich in mercy out of the great love with which He loved us even when we were dead in trespasses and sins made us ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)
verse 9.
For by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not of your own doing it is the gift of God.

God made Adam and Eve in His own image but we are born in Adam's fallen image with his fallen nature.

Yes, absolutely..
However, the born again part of us, is not our freewill, its our SPIRIT.
Our Freewill allowed us the choice to respond to the Gift of God who is Jesus The Savior.
"faith comes by Hearing", and freewill makes the choice to BELIEVE "the Gospel"