Child Salvation

[Selene]

All men have sinned; therefore, death has passed upon all men (Romans 5:12). Not all men are born with sin because of Adam.

Now interpret this.

13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.) 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

You just can't see the point here before the law came can you? 15 For if by the one man’s offense many died. And like it says in verse 14, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, When Adam sinned everyone who would ever be born would die, even those who did not sin according to the likeness of the transgression "Adams sin" of Adam. Like I said before there was no other law than, don't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Im finished repeating myself If you don't understand that there were men that did not sin before the law, God did not impute it sin " verse 13 " because He had not yet said you shall not kill or steal ect. Would God hold men accountable before the command came? the 10 commandments? How did men sin with one law? then they were driven from the garden where the forbidden tree was. You see how death reigned to all men from one sin. Now men knew right from wrong but God had not spoken the WORDS. Thou shall not.

Hello Bud,

Do you not know that when Christ died on the cross, He brought redemption to all mankind? My brother, Christ died 2000 years ago. You were not born 2000 years ago, but Christ's redemption on the cross reached you nevertheless. This gift of redemption was given to you and me for Christ died for all sinners. In the same way, when Adam sinned, that sin also reached all his descendents in the future. That stain of sin was passed to all of Adam's descendants. Death was not passed by Adam to his descendents because death did not come from Adam. Death comes only from Satan (Hebrews 2:14). So, how can Adam passed death to his children and descendents when death only comes from Satan?

According to my Jerusalem Bible, it stated that because there was no law from Adam to Moses, no one could be accused of the sin of "law-breaking." From Adam to Moses, all had sin, but not the sin of "law-breaking." That came after Moses.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[religusnut]

So tell me how would you know that was a sin to God if He had not said thou shall not lie or covet?
By the power of His word, when He said, thou shall not lie, it became a personal offense before Him, every time someone lied.

Now compare this verse and God attitude about Sodom and Gomorrah.
Also notice how God says Abraham knows how to command his children and house hold.


Genesis 18
[sup]16[/sup] Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. [sup]17[/sup] And the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing, [sup]18[/sup] since Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? [sup]19[/sup] For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice, that the LORD may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him.” [sup]20[/sup] And the LORD said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, [sup]21[/sup] I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”

That underlined statement is a bit different from other verses after the law about the sins of Israel being before the Lord.
Or the pagan gods of other nations. After He said, “You shall have no other gods before Me."
As soon as God spoke the words of the 10 Commandments everything changed, sin was defined. These were now offenses, violations of Gods spoken word.

Isaiah 55
[sup]11[/sup] So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Nothing directed at your comment Religusnut I'm just saying myself

Apparently the people kneew what sin was before God had it recorded becasue they were sacrificing for sin long before the law was written.

Many scholars say that Job was the oldest written book of the bible and they knew what sin was then.

Hello Bud,

Do you not know that when Christ died on the cross, He brought redemption to all mankind? My brother, Christ died 2000 years ago. You were not born 2000 years ago, but Christ's redemption on the cross reached you nevertheless. This gift of redemption was given to you and me for Christ died for all sinners. In the same way, when Adam sinned, that sin also reached all his descendents in the future. That stain of sin was passed to all of Adam's descendants. Death was not passed by Adam to his descendents because death did not come from Adam. Death comes only from Satan (Hebrews 2:14). So, how can Adam passed death to his children and descendents when death only comes from Satan?

According to my Jerusalem Bible, it stated that because there was no law from Adam to Moses, no one could be accused of the sin of "law-breaking." From Adam to Moses, all had sin, but not the sin of "law-breaking." That came after Moses.

In Christ,
Selene

I don't know about your New Jerusalem Bible. However if there were no sin between Adam and Moses then Cain killing Able was not a problem. All of the other things that they had to burn sacrifices for to make atonement were not needed.... Job's children were not sinning. That is utterly ridiculous.

 

[bud02]

I started a thread on this topic if you would like to comment please follow the link
thank you Selene and Religusnut
http://www.christian...1147#entry91147

 

[Selene]

I don't know about your New Jerusalem Bible. However if there were no sin between Adam and Moses then Cain killing Able was not a problem. All of the other things that they had to burn sacrifices for to make atonement were not needed.... Job's children were not sinning. That is utterly ridiculous.

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Hello Religusnut,

I think you misunderstood what I posted. There was sin from Adam to Moses. It was the sin of pride. However, the sin of "law-breaking" did not come about until after Moses because that was when God gave the law to Moses. From Adam to Moses, God did not give any laws, so one cannot accuse them of breaking any laws. However, that does not mean that sin does not exist. Sin existed. But it was the "sin of breaking the law" that did not exist until after Moses. In other words, for those people who existed from Adam to Moses, you cannot accuse them of breaking the law because there was no law. But you can accuse them of sin.....especially the sin of pride because the root of all wickedness is pride.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[religusnut]

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Hello Religusnut,

I think you misunderstood what I posted. There was sin from Adam to Moses. It was the sin of pride. However, the sin of "law-breaking" did not come about until after Moses because that was when God gave the law to Moses. From Adam to Moses, God did not give any laws, so one cannot accuse them of breaking any laws. However, that does not mean that sin does not exist. Sin existed. But it was the "sin of breaking the law" that did not exist until after Moses. In other words, for those people who existed from Adam to Moses, you cannot accuse them of breaking the law because there was no law. But you can accuse them of sin.....especially the sin of pride because the root of all wickedness is pride.

In Christ,
Selene

Selene I believe that Adam knew. If he had not known I do not believe that God would have held him accountable. If Adam knew then he passed it along. There were what only three or 4 generations between Adam and Job. I forget without looking it up. There never has been nor will there ever be sin apart from the law. Although the law can't save us, we can't be saved apart from the law. Without the law there is not need for salvation.