In Him were all things created.

[2nd Timothy Group]

there was no curse on man, NOT FROM THE GARDEN, scripture, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
now because of Adam disobedience, death came upon all men.

as for the, "Eternal Plan of God?", you asked of, scripture, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"
Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

I hope that helps.


Correct, and that POWER is vested in him and by him, and for him in his creation/creatures. as with his angels, yes, he, God, has evils angels to do his bidding.. he, God sent evil angels into Egypt, Psalms 78:49 "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them."
and he, God, sent an evil spirit, to saul. 1 Samuel 16:14 "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him."

see, don't give the devil any credit, he has a JOB to do, just as other.

if one did not have evil, or as the poster said, "God creating calamity for wicked people" well calamity hits the rightious, scripture, James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"
James 1:3 "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."

see temptation, (TEST), can be for Good, not just only evil. for God tempt, or test Abraham for rightiousness. just as in the Garden God subject man to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. see, God is the FIRST "FRUIT" INSPECTOR. man was tested in the Garden...... YIKES!.

and to determin GOOD from the BAD, it must be "TESTED".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

This is a really, really good post. I like the scriptures that you've provided and again, I've logged plenty of new notes. Thanks!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I wonder how much of that was to oppose the false gods, who were mostly based on created things, like the sun or earth and so on? You still see this today, so many pagans and Earth worshipers.
But the twin themes are God's power and his love for his people, even though they kept straying away to the foreign gods. God often speaks like a jaded lover to Israel.

In my estimation, and the Lord may prove me wrong one day, is that Power is the first thing that every reader should take from the Bible. Next, it must be the Hidden Plan of Circumcision of the Heart. That is the backbone of the entire Bible, for, without this Holy Operation of Christ, nothing would need to exist at all. The entire Plan of God revolves around the Circumcision of Heart that [only] Christ can provide (as it seems).

 

[Renniks]

Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
are there some evil people? .... thought so.
DARKNESS here is void of truth/Light, are there some ignorant people? ... thought so.

well they all are in God..... another assumption. YIKES!. lets check the record, Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?"
Jeremiah 23:24 "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."

Um, ok? God allowing evil does not make him evil. Are you familiar with Molinism? If this is the best of all possible worlds, evil is inevitable to some degree for God to have a relationship with us. God holding all together and indwelling his creation doesn't mean that the darkness comes from him. Just the opposite, the darkness comes from lack of worship and obedience to God.

 

[Renniks]

In my estimation, and the Lord may prove me wrong one day, is that Power is the first thing that every reader should take from the Bible. Next, it must be the Hidden Plan of Circumcision of the Heart. That is the backbone of the entire Bible, for, without this Holy Operation of Christ, nothing would need to exist at all. The entire Plan of God revolves around the Circumcision of Heart that [only] Christ can provide (as it seems).

I'm not sure if you can separate the two. God is the only being who can perform such an operation because of his power, but he is first love... (It's not one of his attributes, it's what he is) so both are needed for salvation.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I'm not sure if you can separate the two. God is the only being who can perform such an operation because of his power, but he is first love... (It's not one of his attributes, it's what he is) so both are needed for salvation.

Nice! And, I totally agree. It is the single most Powerful thing that our Amazing God can do . . . than to change the human Heart! I am so thankful to know of this Holy Operation and I wish that everyone else did as well.

Numbers 11:25-29 NLT - "And the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to Moses. Then he gave the seventy elders the same Spirit that was upon Moses. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But this never happened again. Two men, Eldad and Medad, had stayed behind in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but they had not gone out to the Tabernacle. Yet the Spirit rested upon them as well, so they prophesied there in the camp. A young man ran and reported to Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp!" Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses' assistant since his youth, protested, "Moses, my master, make them stop!" But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

there was no curse on man, NOT FROM THE GARDEN, scripture, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
now because of Adam disobedience, death came upon all men.

as for the "Eternal Plan of God?", you asked of, scripture, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"
Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

I hope that helps.


Correct, and that POWER is vested in him and by him, and for him in his creation/creatures. as with his angels, yes, he, God, has evils angels to do his bidding.. he, God sent evil angels into Egypt, Psalms 78:49 "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them."
and he, God, sent an evil spirit, to saul. 1 Samuel 16:14 "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him."

see, don't give the devil any credit, he has a JOB to do, just as others.

if one did not have evil, or as the poster said, "God creating calamity for wicked people" well calamity hits the righteous, scripture, James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"
James 1:3 "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."

see temptation, (TEST), can be for Good, not just only evil. for God tempt, or test Abraham for righteousness. just as in the Garden God subject man to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. see, God is the FIRST "FRUIT" INSPECTOR. man was tested in the Garden...... YIKES!.

and to determine GOOD from the BAD, it must be "TESTED".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

How do you feel about the below passage set?

Romans 8:20-22 NLT - "Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

Is humanity not a part of "all creation"?

 

[101G]

Um, ok? God allowing evil does not make him evil. Are you familiar with Molinism? If this is the best of all possible worlds, evil is inevitable to some degree for God to have a relationship with us. God holding all together and indwelling his creation doesn't mean that the darkness comes from him. Just the opposite, the darkness comes from lack of worship and obedience to God.

did I say God is evil? no, but God uses evil to correct our, our, our, wrongs/darkness ways? yes, it's call JUDGMENT, or another word .... BALANCE. if you break into your neighbor house and steal their belongings, oh, you suppose to be welcome with open LOVING arms? and sweep it under the rug as it has not happen, to say? no, the world nor God work that way. if that would be true then God is not a Just God. he balance the books.

Exodus 32:9 "And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:" (see the problem, US).
Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation."
Exodus 32:11 "And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?"
Exodus 32:12 "Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people."
Exodus 32:13 "Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever."
Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

understand something, evil as I said before is not wicked, nor is it sin. if unchecked, (as said not controled), it could get out of hand, (JUST LOOK AROUND TODAY).evil is in response (control) to injustice so that one MAY... NOT be completely destroyed. oh so you think God is all lovey dovey? you better think twice. he is long patience, but he will not spare the rod forever. so if you think evil is bad, yes in the wrong hands. for those who cannot handle it, because that do not understand it.

but understand this, the devil has a j.o.b. to do. he's like, (only an example), he's like a truancy officer, if you don't want to act right in God house, well God have someone for you. yes, the devil... just like an unruly teenager who refuse to obey their parents, well there's a place for them, as with in God's House, scripture, 1 Corinthians 5:4 "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
1 Corinthians 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." just as the unruly teenager who refuse to obey their parents, they will learn when to go, and when to cut off the Light, and anything else they need to do.

see, even the devil have a job to do. and you wonder why some are in church today. well some the devil wipped then into coming to the Lord, because when the devil gets on you, you'll be glad to come to church. now temptation/test comes if you, and I can control evil. see God cannot be tempted with evil, nor he tempt anyone ... with Evil, but the devil will he will... tempt/test us, just ask JOB...... YIELD NOT TO TEMPTATION, orther words don't let is control you, but you control it. it's call "refusal", as should have been done in the garden...... but it was without knowledge. the GARDEN IS A GOOD STUDY FOR GOOD AND EVIL. anyway, understand we need evil in our lives to a point, I didn't say sin, I said evil. because evil can give us a BACKBONE to withstand or risist evil itself , (be in control of it as God is). we as humans are weak in flesh, and no match for this POWER. we cannot "Govern" it. hence the reason for KNOWLEDGE of God. if one can UNDERSTAND it.. EVIL, then one can overcome the power itself. but not on our own, for we have not the power to overcome it only in Christ Jesus. so the scriptures are correct, 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" and if you don't know, he will eat you alive, just ask Job, or even Peter, thank God for the Lord Jesus, in both cases. see we're dealing with a Higher power that we as humans know nothing about. and with that said, I'll shut my mouth.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

How do you feel about the below passage set?

Romans 8:20-22 NLT - "Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."

Is humanity not a part of "all creation"?

If you don't mind i perfer the kjv. Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
DEATH is the bondage of corruption. and from Adam disobedience, sin, came death upon all men. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
death was the unrighteous "GIFT" upon all men, even those who did not sin after the first man manner. as the representative, of one man sin we all died. Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
understand something, Natural death is not a curse, but eternal Spiritual death is the curse. understand there are two deaths. natural, and Spiritual.
it is appointed for a man to die ... once, that's natural, from this flesh. but to be eternally dead to God is the curse. that's why God, JESUS came, to die for us, and not be cursed. eternal seperation from God is the curse. again Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."
this was God plan all along. 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:"
1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

now believe it or not as before that just explained the Godhead as to why the Lord Jesus the ordinal last CAME/Manifested in last, or ordinal Last time for US. BINGO.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Renniks]

did I say God is evil? no, but God uses evil to correct our, our, our, wrongs/darkness ways? yes, it's call JUDGMENT, or another word .... BALANCE. if you break into your neighbor house and steal their belongings, oh, you suppose to be welcome with open LOVING arms? and sweep it under the rug as it has not happen, to say? no, the world nor God work that way. if that would be true then God is not a Just God. he balance the books.

Exodus 32:9 "And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:" (see the problem, US).
Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation."
Exodus 32:11 "And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?"
Exodus 32:12 "Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people."
Exodus 32:13 "Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever."
Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

understand something, evil as I said before is not wicked, nor is it sin. if unchecked, (as said not controled), it could get out of hand, (JUST LOOK AROUND TODAY).evil is in response (control) to injustice so that one MAY... NOT be completely destroyed. oh so you think God is all lovey dovey? you better think twice. he is long patience, but he will not spare the rod forever. so if you think evil is bad, yes in the wrong hands. for those who cannot handle it, because that do not understand it.

but understand this, the devil has a j.o.b. to do. he's like, (only an example), he's like a truancy officer, if you don't want to act right in God house, well God have someone for you. yes, the devil... just like an unruly teenager who refuse to obey their parents, well there's a place for them, as with in God's House, scripture, 1 Corinthians 5:4 "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
1 Corinthians 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." just as the unruly teenager who refuse to obey their parents, they will learn when to go, and when to cut off the Light, and anything else they need to do.

see, even the devil have a job to do. and you wonder why some are in church today. well some the devil wipped then into coming to the Lord, because when the devil gets on you, you'll be glad to come to church. now temptation/test comes if you, and I can control evil. see God cannot be tempted with evil, nor he tempt anyone ... with Evil, but the devil will he will... tempt/test us, just ask JOB...... YIELD NOT TO TEMPTATION, orther words don't let is control you, but you control it. it's call "refusal", as should have been done in the garden...... but it was without knowledge. the GARDEN IS A GOOD STUDY FOR GOOD AND EVIL. anyway, understand we need evil in our lives to a point, I didn't say sin, I said evil. because evil can give us a BACKBONE to withstand or risist evil itself , (be in control of it as God is). we as humans are weak in flesh, and no match for this POWER. we cannot "Govern" it. hence the reason for KNOWLEDGE of God. if one can UNDERSTAND it.. EVIL, then one can overcome the power itself. but not on our own, for we have not the power to overcome it only in Christ Jesus. so the scriptures are correct, 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" and if you don't know, he will eat you alive, just ask Job, or even Peter, thank God for the Lord Jesus, in both cases. see we're dealing with a Higher power that we as humans know nothing about. and with that said, I'll shut my mouth.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Well we have a different definition of evil then. God correcting or judging isn't evil. God isn't directing Satan's actions but he does allow them to bring about good, or because some refuse him. God does not tempt anyone. I would rather say God takes what was meant for evil and uses it to bring good then risk attributing evil to a perfectly holy God.

 

[101G]

God does not tempt anyone

are you sure, Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am."

or this, Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
here the Hebrew word, "prove" is H974 בָּחַן bachan (baw-chan') v.
1. to test (especially metals).
2. (generally and figuratively) to investigate.
[a primitive root]
KJV: examine, prove, tempt, try (trial).

well? God test for righteousness and is tested for our sakes

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Renniks]

are you sure, Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am."

or this, Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
here the Hebrew word, "prove" is H974 בָּחַן bachan (baw-chan') v.
1. to test (especially metals).
2. (generally and figuratively) to investigate.
[a primitive root]
KJV: examine, prove, tempt, try (trial).

well? God test for righteousness and is tested for our sakes

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"[/QUOT

are you sure, Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am."

or this, Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
here the Hebrew word, "prove" is H974 בָּחַן bachan (baw-chan') v.
1. to test (especially metals).
2. (generally and figuratively) to investigate.
[a primitive root]
KJV: examine, prove, tempt, try (trial).

well? God test for righteousness and is tested for our sakes

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him. 13When tempted, no one should say, “ God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. 14But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.…

 

[101G]

Amen, evil is simply a tool of God, not God is evil, but a tool for God to use. and this is POWERFUL TOOL.
stanley has nonthing on God.......... get it, stanley power tools... (hey got have dome fun in learning).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

If you don't mind I prefer the KJV.

Not at all. Should we start a new thread? I'm thinking we should look closely at the surrounding six verses (or so) and dig in. I think it would be worthwhile, or . . . since I believe that this Curse was created and implemented by God, we could stay here. Up to you, sir.

 

[101G]

Not at all. Should we start a new thread? I'm thinking we should look closely at the surrounding six verses (or so) and dig in. I think it would be worthwhile, or . . . since I believe that this Curse was created and implemented by God, we could stay here. Up to you, sir.

the ball is in your court.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"