IMO your argument is flawed a bit, you may be right but here's my objection to it. If truly "no man" (original Greek of John 1) has seen the father, then Adam, Noah, and Enoch are certainly men. You cannot pick and choose who falls into this category. I also wouldn't consider Satan a man.
I also don't know of what consequence this point has on anything who it was in heaven?
I never said that they seen the Father I said they seen Jesus. Read what I posted earlier in the thread.
http://www.christian...dpost__p__92473
Who or where did I say Satin was a man?
RE: John 12.
You cannot possibly believe Satan was cast out of this world.
Just one example is 2 Cor 11... Paul references Satan as an angel of light and warns people of him, this is AFTER Christ spoke these words, so it's impossible he was cast out then. The text refers to the victory at the cross, not the literal abolishing of Satan, that's the only conclusion to arrive at that I see taking all Biblical context into affect.
I also don't see "lose his right to come before the throne" supported anywhere at all here.
I don't know how your getting this concept from what I posted. First I never said that Satan was thrown out of the world. I said he was thrown out of heaven please reread my post.
I said the next step was he will be cast from the earth "yet future". In the first account the Father cast him from before himself. At the resurrection Jesus had him cast from heaven. now his only abode is the earth see Rev 12:12 woe to the earth. Hes here right now. But if we are now saved threw grace he is no longer accusing us before the thrown. There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Why because of Jesus completed work on the cross.
You are either:
A) Picking and choosing from Revelation that which is future, that which is past, to suit your argument of the day, which flies in staunch opposition to Rev 1:19, the clear ordering of the letter.
Take all of Revelation as past
Which is it???? I'm curious what your view is if you even consider this as past?
Now I don't understand your question at all.
[sup]rev 1:19[/sup] Write[sup][
i][/sup] the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.
It seems you are basing this on being past on your (in my opinion, flawed) presupposition that Satan has already been eliminated from heaven which I do not think to be the case. I do not believe that so to me, this passage is infinitely easier to deal with. I have absolutely no issues considering this a future text.
If its a future text your still waiting for salvation then. [sup]10[/sup] Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Your still waiting for salvation, strength, and the kingdom of our God then? Rev 12 is broken into 3 parts from Johns view 2000 years ago. the past 1-6 including a complete over view of the whole chapter. verse 7-12 what had taken place after the resurrection. See here in verse [sup]5[/sup]
She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. [sup]6[/sup] Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Red is detailed in verses 7-12 green is detailed in verses 13-17 verses 1-6 are history leading up to Christ. My outline in the first post was Satans fall, thrown down by the Father, second thrown out of Heaven by Jesus. The next step yet future is for him Satan to be removed from the earth. Pretty darn simple if you ask me. But people don't study for themselves they believe what people teach them. their to busy, they want the drive threw service on sunday and their done.
Now I believe the 70th week of Danial happened right after the 69th. But because of Darby 90% of Christians are waiting for it to be fulfilled yet in the future. Thats a topic in itself.And thats what you were taught everything from rev chapter 4 forward is for those left behind. Or If your a non rapturest it will happen in a 3.5 year future period, or a 7 year future period.
If Satan was not removed from before the throne then who is Jesus speaking about here.
John 12
[sup]27[/sup] “Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. [sup]28[/sup] Father, glorify Your name.”
Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”
[sup]29[/sup] Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”
[sup]30[/sup] Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. [sup]31[/sup] Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. [sup]32[/sup] And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” [sup]33[/sup] This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
Was he talking about Cesar or the Pharisees? Who is the ruler of this world? and where was he throne out of? Satan and he was thrown out of heaven because of Jesus victory.
Hes still in the world but hes not accusing us before the throne in heaven any longer. If this stuff has not happened then were living a lie.