Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

Therefore, you do not believe God in what He had declared in John 1:13 and I John 3:9?

To God Be The Glory

Sin matters because if you are sinning because of unbelief you are not saved. You can sin because you're weak, or immature, or uninformed and be saved. But you can not sin because of outright unbelief and be saved at the same time. No unbelieving person is saved. If a person is in unbelief they are lost. They will not be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Multiple ways, Lets try this Do you think you could lose Your faith In The future and walk away or sin A sin So serious you could lose Salvation?

Assurance does not come from osas. The Bible says assurance (knowing for sure that you are really saved) comes from seeing Christ in you.

If I became an unbeliever I would be sinning the sin for which there is no sacrifice given—willful, unrepentant unbelief. Osas says if I became an unbeliever it means I was never saved to begin with. Arminianism says if I become an unbeliever I forfeit the grace of salvation that my faith had secured for me. Either way, I'm damned. So why does it matter how I got into unbelief? It doesn't! I'm damned either way. So let's focus on what really matters—being a believer on the day you die, ready to stand before God.

 

[HisLife]

Assurance does not come from osas. The Bible says assurance (knowing for sure that you are really saved) comes from seeing Christ in you.

If I became an unbeliever I would be sinning the sin for which there is no sacrifice given—willful, unrepentant unbelief. Osas says if I became an unbeliever it means I was never saved to begin with. Arminianism says if I become an unbeliever I forfeit the grace of salvation that my faith had secured for me. Either way, I'm damned. So why does it matter how I got into unbelief? It doesn't! I'm damned either way. So let's focus on what really matters—being a believer on the day you die, ready to stand before God.

Sounds like lucky repentance just get it right before the day you die....

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

The scripture above should show That seeing Christ in you Is The work of God in the persons Life

Assurance Comes From Believing The Gospel it is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe, there is no other name by which men can be saved etc

Belief Needs Perspective as an example God Says You shall not murder... Believing that will Not Get you saved, If you Believe the Gospel And Get a glimpse Of Jesus You would never want to walk away, Its drives love and appreciation that makes you not want to do the things that hurt the one dearest to you etc All Mans arguments become irrelevant, It's Not about remaining in Belief, It's More of a Do you love me

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it doesn’t .....as far as one’s Salvation is concerned.... “ By Grace you are Saved, through Faith...”

We are Saved by Who we Believe in....not by what we do...the Former will take care of the latter...

Your sin does matter when you are sinning because of a rejection of Christ in outright unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sounds like lucky repentance just get it right before the day you die....

No, lol. It means don't go back to your old life of sin in unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The scripture above should show That seeing Christ in you Is The work of God in the persons Life

Did someone say it wasn't?

But anyway, that is why seeing Christ in your life is what gives you the assurance that you are saved, because good works in you is indeed the proof that God is at work in you in salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Assurance Comes From Believing The Gospel it is the power of God unto salvation for all who believe, there is no other name by which men can be saved etc

Actually, no, the Bible says assurance comes from your changed life. Anybody can say they believe the gospel when they really don't. So just saying you believe in God is not what provides assurance that you are really saved. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Believe the Gospel And Get a glimpse Of Jesus You would never want to walk away....

It's fine if you want to believe that. But let's just be careful to do what the Bible tells us to do—keep believing. That's what counts.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Someone else whom you judge to be insincere? Intellectually dishonest? And you don't see these statements betraying a weak understanding of the topic?

I wonder why you need to go after the person and not stay on point.

Much love!

I'm sorry but you must have me confused with someone else.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What converted people are "told to Keep believing"?

Scriptural quote?

As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Please show me where he said this.

19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.20You, however, have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.c 21I have not written to you because you lack knowledge of the truth, but because you have it, and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.28And now, little children, remain in Christ,d so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming. 1 John 2:19-28
​

You can easily see how vs. 24 makes it so that vs. 19 can't mean what osas says it means. But who cares. The important thing is that you do what John says in vs. 24 and 28. That's what matters and is made crystal clear to us in the scriptures—keep believing. Who cares why and how and if the believer can stop believing. The answer to those questions does not change the fact that we are told to continue to believe to the very end. The important thing is to do what the Bible says to do—keep believing. That's not in dispute. In fact both osas and anti-osas agree that you must continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back.​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

if they say you can be saved in total unbelief (as an Antichrist)

then they are wrong.

Are you sure they are saying this?

Yes, they are saying this. They say that Christ died for ALL their sins including the sin of deciding to go back to unbelief in a willful decision to reject Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I do not persevere. God keeps me. If I have to persevere. it is me saving myself.

Here is the scriptural exhortation to us to persevere.....

11We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. 12Then you will not be sluggish, but will imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Hebrews 6:11-12
​

It is through faith and patience (the perseverance of faith) that we gain the inheritance. I don't believe for a second this means "me saving myself". Having faith is not you saving yourself. Paul says having faith is the exact opposite of working to save oneself. Believing God is not a work of the works gospel.

 

[Ezra]

Multiple ways, Lets try this Do you think you could lose Your faith In The future and walk away or sin A sin So serious you could lose Salvation?

why would a person want to do that ?

 

[HisLife]

But anyway, that is why seeing Christ in your life is what gives you the assurance that you are saved, because good works in you is indeed the proof that God is at work in you in salvation.

Whose work, Whos Judge. I was hoping you would see in the verse that they didn't see the good works in their lives, Also The ones that thought they did were wrong

Actually, no, the Bible says assurance comes from your changed life. Anybody can say they believe the gospel when they really don't. So just saying you believe in God is not what provides assurance that you are really saved. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

Sure anyone can say it and not believe it you see it all the time, They say they believe The Gospel then confess with their mouth that Jesus didn't Die for their sins, So if they are Judged accordingly they are Guilty, God is Holy, Its all or nothing, Guilty of one = Death

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me

I don't like to stop mid-sentence but for context


1 Corinthians 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures

Can you confess it or are you ashamed, It's obvious as Day whenever people start talking, The Saviour Or Self, What is the answer to sin, God offered Only One way to Deal With Sin and It's Through Jesus Sacrifice he paid at Calvary, Remission of Sins is through his Blood

Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Do all your pretend Good works you want But Don't Go against that

Now With the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[kcnalp]

Kcnalp, your posts come off as mocking, but that's ok... I'm cool with that. But I want to explain my position to you and hope you see the key points as why I believe what I do.

While I don't believe in "OSAS doctrine" (bear with me in my folly) I do believe in predestination.

Predestination is absolutely Biblical!

Frankly, John Calvin didn't believe in what is now presented as OSAS, but he did believe in predestination. He and I have good reason for that: its directly spoken of in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1. The concept is also talked about in other ways multiple times.

A real quick note on John Calvin: if the OSAS doctrine means a Christian can do whatever he wants and is ok.... John preached heavily against that! Have you heard the notion that grace isn't a liscense to sin? (Of course you have!) Well, Calvin is the earliest person I can find to directly use that saying.

In any sense, back to predestination. Its a big part of OSAS. Calvin wrote 3 chapters in one book about it and that's why his followers came up with OSAS and Tulip after he died. Again, I believe Calvin would roll over in his grave if he knew what his partial writings evolved into.

If you want to debate whether predestination is in the Bible, you are going to have a tough time, because clearly it is! Not only in Eph 1 and Rom 8, but many other places.

My stance is that there are people who God knows and foreordained to be saved. Not only did he know it, but he planned it. If you are in any way familiar with the argument, you already know most of the verses I would bring up. Likewise, I know your verses you would counter with.

The fact is that yes... A person can be in a Christian lifestyle and properly so and walk away. It was talked about in the Bible and it happens today. This is fuel for proponents of "free will" to say, "see"?

I get that... It seems like a logical argument. But there is one passage brings it into proper perspective:

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

A person who identifies with Jesus but then walks away was never truly a Christian. That verse and a few others explain why predestination is a truth and destroys the "free moral agent" doctrine and puts verses like Hebrews 10 and Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 2 in proper perspective. Yes, you can leave and before you left you may have "walked the walk" pretty well! But according to 1 John 2... You were always"not of us".

However, in a practical sense, I find the concept of predestination pretty useless. It there, its reassuring, it pairs nicely with the guidelines given to be saved, but 1 John 2 is also a warning. It tells us we must persevere to the end, and with the fact that ole FHII and Kcnalp aren't directly mentioned in the Bible... We aren't given assurance! We get the gameplan, God knows the outcome, and yea... He declared it before the foundations of the world... But he tells very few people before they finish.... And even them he did tell were still walking on thin ice. They still struggled to complete the task.

So, if you are one that believes we can lose our salvation if we don't remain faithful, I don't have a problem with that. My belief is that we never had it to begin with because God already knew. But my belief also is that while God knew, he doesn't tell us, so we have to contend for the faith daily. In the end, whats the difference? Both doctrines require faith day by day and both doctrines don't give the person assurance that they are in.

I am hoping that you at least get my perspective..

Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

 

[HisLife]

why would a person want to do that ?

That's right They shouldn't want to do that... But many seem to think they might and others go to the extreme and teach that you might as to put doubt in people, I don't Think A Christian Can Sin So bad that God rejects the Blood that paid for them, I also Don't think A real Christian Would Ever stop loving Jesus, I don't think either is possible, I was showing that he does

 

[kcnalp]

I can’t go to Hell for ANY reason....

So you can continue to call people FOOL and still be a Christian? Not when you have been warned and continue to do it over and over. Please, don't call Jesus a liar again.

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[kcnalp]

Down boy , down! Lol....I was speaking generically .....it was not intended to be personal ....
But “if the shoe fits”......

See above.

 

[kcnalp]

Non converted men should know what Jesus has offered them to have.

But you're preaching to a Christian Forum.