Once Saved Always Saved

[kcnalp]

Actually, if you look up the word "charis" in the Greek, the terminnology of "unearned" or "unmerited" is not in there.

Grace is simple favour.

It may in fact be true that we do not deserve the grace that changes us; however once grace has changed us, we begin to deserve the heaven that the Lord has prepared for us. Maybe not completely all at once. But we begin to deserve it more than we used to deserve it.





On the one hand, there is a literal understanding of Ezekiel 33:11-20 that I am still processing.

On the other, there is the concept that we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as believers as concerning condemnation.

And also, it would seem in Romans 4:11 that one does not need to be circumcised of heart for righteousness to be imputed to him; although there is not an airtight case for this since circumcision in that verse may be speaking of physical circumcision only.



Notice it doesn't say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

If it said that, it would be in contradiction to 1 John 3:5-9.

Read 1 John 1:8 again.

It is speaking of indwelling sin rather than practically sinning.

The element of sin within us can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Thus, there is no contradiction between 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:5-9.

1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin; while 1 John 3:5-9 is speaking about the committing of sins practically.

Wonderful. You're saying I can never be lost! Thank you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yeah you keep telling me that, yet with no proof.

No, seriously. Calvin taught that once you are saved you are always saved. We call it 'osas' for short.

it’s like the old calvin vs arminian debate. Anyone who believes In eternal security must be calvins, anyone who does not must be arminian (or Catholic)

I don't do that because I know that osas is only one part of Calvin's teachings.

eternal security was taught by Paul and Jesus its not something that just appeared a few hundred years ago.

Yes, both osas and anti-osas believe that the believer has eternal security. Eternal security is not new. What is new is the teaching that you can't lose eternal security. That came into the church with the Reformation.

You what’s funny, I just looked up OSAS and calvin, and you know what I found? Anti calvinist rant on how calvin got osas wrong.. not one things from hm, can you share that book you are talking about? Because I cant find it, if you can share it and I see him write the word or term osas, then I will ask your forgiveness

I don't know if he called it that by name. All I know is he taught that Once you are Saved you are Always Saved. We use the acronym 'osas' when talking about his doctrine.

 

[FHII]

Well if the belief you ask of brought one to become a new Creature in Christ, then yes they are good to go. There is far more in that statment than what is just written here. Sin is not the issue. Even keeping on belieiving is not the issue! Jesus has perfected forever those He is sanctifying! So if you are a child of God you are complete in HIm and hidden in Him.

As for the Bible. all Scripture is equally inspired by god, but not all SCripture is equally applicable to all of us! We don't offer animals anymore. Gentiles do not circumcize their sons as part of a covenant.

We have to learn context in order to see what something applies to. Verses on enduring trials has nothing to do with being saved. Verses on moral purity are not teaching of murder. Too many believers take verses that apply to a different time or a different situation and put them someplace they don't belong. That is why there is so much false doctrine out there.

Like I said, many questions, but there was just ine I was interested in: must we endure to the end?

You got stuck on one verse I gave and missed the whole point of the original idea I was getting at. Yes, I believe in predestination but the concept doesn't help us much because God doesn't give specific names nor does he give out diplomas before you finish. He gives the game plan and the promise.

You go to any Church -- including mine -- and you ask people if they will get to heaven or if they are saved and most will say yes. But wait around a year and some that say that will have dropped out. This is what John was talking about in I John 2.

So again, could you answer the question?

If you mean:

2 Timothy 3:16

Well thats a good one, but that isn't it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Wonderful. You're saying I can never be lost! Thank you.

If that is what you have received from my post, who am I to argue? Others might receive an entirely different message from the same words.

 

[kcnalp]

If that is what you have received from my post, who am I to argue? Others might receive an entirely different message from the same words.

Well yeah, I believe in Jesus of the Bible. You're clearly saying I can NEVER be lost! Wish I could say the same about OSASers.

 

[FHII]

I don't know if he ever used the acronym. All I know is he taught once you are saved you are always saved.

Ferris,

He never used the acronym. He wrote dozens of books and thousands of chapters. Three chapters in his Institutes of Christianity were dedicated to Predestination, which was previously supported by earlier Christian writers (Augustine perhaps being one of them). So perhaps 3 out of 1000 chapters were about something that actually is in the Bible: predestination.

I have read his works (though not all of them) and there are several times he contradicts todays version of Calvinists and OSAS. He was actually one to believe in piety and there are a lot of things thar would shock uneducted people (uneducated in his works, I mean).

So this is a pet peeve of mine: people shouldn't tie his name to TULIP or OSAS. If you must refer to it as "Calvinism", that's bad enough... But I can at least suffer it.

Sorry for the rant... I just tend to think its important to speak in truth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh, but I'm not adding to scripture!

If man believes and commits a sin, any sin, he has Jesus as his Advocate to plead his case before God by faith.

But if man commits the "willful sin" of no longer believing in Christ, he has forfeited his Advocate and his sins are not covered.

Hence we would be under law not under grace.

good luck with that

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Get that knot out of your panties , Granny! I would be very defensive also I had to defend such an obvious load of crap like Purgatory....I have researched the subject, and although I am no expert, I know that it represents a “ Fairy Tale Land “ That absolutely rejects everything the Bible stands for....perhaps you can “ set us all straight”......Pray to Mary so that we can maybe understand this “Blasphemy Land”....

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is all about, as we shall see from scripture! The Holy Spirit is humiliated by dwelling in a person who now rejects Christ!

There were some who had accepted Christ as their Saviour but now have gone back to temple worship (Judaism) and renounced Christ. This is what is happening in Hebrews 6.

But before we go there, I would like to say that OSAS came from the Calvinist teaching that the chosen of God cannot resist His grace. They cannot resist receiving it or resist losing it. Therefore they cannot lose their salvation. I intend to prove this is not biblical!

Hebrews 6:4-6

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

As we see here, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and fell away, in this case, going back to temple worship, thereby rejecting Christ.

They have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and can never be renewed unto repentance. But the thing is, they will never want to be renewed unto repentance in Christ.

So if you are ever concerned that you may have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is proof you haven't! You will not be concerned of it because you are no longer concerned about Christ.

It is very important to learn how to interpret scripture. Context, is crucial. One important question to start with is: Who is scripture addressing here? The title of the Book is Hebrews. The message preaches about Christ, their Messiah whom they have been waiting for, the Son of God, Who is above the angels, of whose rest they are to enter into (referencing Moses and the Israelites), our High Priest (in relation to the function of the Hebrew High Priest throughout their History).
Specifically it is addressing a mixed crowd if believers and unbelievers. The unelievers who are clinging to the Law and have had doubts about Christ as many in Jerusalem had.
Here is a quote from John MacaArthur about this very passage:
Does Hebrews 6:4-6 teach that a true believer can lose his salvation?
"No. In that passage, the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the unsaved who have heard the truth and acknowledged it, but who have hesitated to embrace Christ. The Holy Spirit warns them, “You had better come to Christ now, for if you fall away it will be impossible for you to come again to the point of repentance.” They were at the best point for repentance–full knowledge. To fall back from that would be fatal."

The Chosen nation were the ones who received the truth from the beginning. They were given the Law and the Prophets, the Truth since Abraham. If they reject Christ now after they have been given ALL, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO BE SAVED.
-------
WE ARE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. Knowing the future and that faith is a gift of God, why would God give this gift to someone He knows would fall away later?
If you are born again from above, it is a done deal.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is a gift, not by works, so that no one can boast."
Eph. 2:8-9
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:38-39

No not even you can break that seal.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was judging the OSAS doctrine, not you.

Reality is, I am a Bible believing Christian and OSASers say I'm not.

There you go judging again. Judging others is quite OSAS!

"I was judging the OSAS doctrine, not you." You are judging me. You're doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing.

You can’t judge osas when you have no idea what it is.

and yes, you judge me, stop excusing your sin

 

[Eternally Grateful]

​

This has nothing to do with having the power to command salvation one way or the other. It has everything to do with if you're going to be saved and persevere in God's power to trust him to the very end.

And you cannot read this and see your preaching conditional life not eternal? How?

 

[amigo de christo]

But Christ as a son over His own house , whose house we are IF
we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the Hope firm unto the END .
For we are made partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence
steadfast unto the END .

Having damnation cause they have cast off the faith they had at First .
He who overcomes and endures unto THE END , that message is pretty clear to the seven churches as well .
If we hold not our faith in Christ to the end that end will be even worse than if we had never known the way
of righteousness . Hey if the early church warned and reminded , I warn and remind .
SO be not high minded but fear , learn to behold both the goodness and severity of GOD .
For we know God did not spare the natural branches due to unbelief
but take heed , for if one continues not in HIS Goodness , they will be cast out of the tree , just like the unbelieving jews were .
WE must stand firm on the hope we have in JESUS and not be moved away from the true hope of the glorious gospel .
YET MANY are now falling away , under a another false hope all inclusive lie from Rome .
WHICH states that if folks do good works , heck it dont matter if they muslim , buddist , whatever , they too know GOD AND ARE SAVED .
TALK about another false gospel . AND IF ANY man says JESUS is my way , but the other religoins dont need to repent and beleive
THEY are now partakers of a false gosple themselves . WE had better stay true to the one and only gospel .
AND dont be as i once was either . I used to lip JESUS saves , YET my works proved i knew him not and was not saved .
BUT also never believe this false new go spell either . To be saved requires one THING and one thing alone .
BY grace through faith YOU confess by mouth JESUS as LORD and believe from the heart that GOD has raised HIM from the dead .
AND sure enough your fruits are gonna prove whether you are HIS or not HIS . JUST LIKE my dead faith once proved i was not HIS .

 

[Waiting on him]

What exactly does it mean to endure till the end?

 

[amigo de christo]

What exactly does it mean to endure till the end?

Stay faithful to CHRIST till you last breath , OR TILL HE COMES , which ever comes first .
AND by the signs of the times , ITS LOOKING real good LIKE HIS COMING DOES DRAW EVER NIGH .

 

[amigo de christo]

The spirit of anti christ has been at work since both pauls and johns days .
And if we take note of what john wrote . IT seems this spirit was busy trying to convince folks
that JESUS was not necessary to be believed in , in order for folks to be saved .
BUT JOHN CLEARS THAT UP right QUICK and RIGHT FAST .
HE who believes in THE SON , HAS the FATHER
but HE he believes not , has NOT the Father or the son .
I have written these things so that ye may know That those who truly believe in JESUS do have eternal life .
And to expose the all inclusive dung pile lie that popes have spread as they kissed korans and blew on indian pipes
and embraced budda statues . THEM religoins ARE NOT saved and DO NOT KNOW GOD .
And no matter what this pope says , DONT HEED IT .

 

[Wrangler]

Get that knot out of your panties , Granny! I would be very defensive also I had to defend such an obvious load of crap like Purgatory

Woah! The hostility here is palpable. Purgatory is a great subject. Shouldn't it be another thread?

 

[FHII]

What exactly does it mean to endure till the end?

Interesting question. Its interesting because I am assuming its meaning is not ambiguous. "Endure" means to suffer (allow) with patience or to last or remain. "Till the end"? Well, the end of what? The many verses that I associate with this seem to indicate the end of the mortal or carnal life. Now #Ronald Nolette may may believe it only means till the end of the missionary journey, but I disagree with that.

That's my take... Did you have something else in mind?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Hebrews 6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

No. In that passage, the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the unsaved who have heard the truth and acknowledged it, but who have hesitated to embrace Christ

1. You cannot “fall away” from something you never become a part of.

2. The Holy Ghost is only given to them who obey (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

3. A person who has not been saved cannot crucify the Son of God unto themselves a second time when they never did it the first time.

 

[Waiting on him]

Interesting question. Its interesting because I am assuming its meaning is not ambiguous. "Endure" means to suffer (allow) with patience or to last or remain. "Till the end"? Well, the end of what? The many verses that I associate with this seem to indicate the end of the mortal or carnal life. Now #Ronald Nolette may may believe it only means till the end of the missionary journey, but I disagree with that.

That's my take... Did you have something else in mind?

I have no idea, what it means. The word succourer is a very interesting word.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What exactly does it mean to endure till the end?

the fruit of the Spirit which abides and remains, though tried by fire?
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.