Questions For A Catholic

[deprofundis]

I think there might be some ground in-between "John and Luke are liars," and a "fatally biased and flawed" translation.

 

[Anastacia]

*NEWS FLASH*We have not had these translations for 1500 years, try again.


Can you prove any of that? The only translations that have it translated this way are founded and started by...... surprise, surprise... Catholics.
Seems you have the majority vs minority confused.


NO, THERE ISN'T! How hard is it to understand that the Greek wording is EXACTLY THE SAME in both of these texts?
There are no "different terms" applied.If you want to see what is original, look to the original Greek, not the "definition according to aspen".

John 1:14
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.
Acts 6:8
Στέφανος δὲ πλήρης χάριτος καὶ δυνάμεως ἐποίει τέρατα καὶ σημεῖα μεγάλα ἐν τῷ λαῷ.
"full grace"... These are exactly the same. If you want to maintain Christ as sinless and perfect and elevated and blessed especially among people you must also do the same to Stephen (unless, of course, you can admit the Scripture doesn't actually support what you're claiming- then this entire argument goes away).

This "full grace" phraise is NOT in Luke 1:28 anywhere:καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ.

So, aspen, you've now seen the Original Greek these were written in. Would you like to call John and Luke liars? Or would you like to admit your translations are fatally biased and flawed and do not support "full of grace"?


Ah so when Scripture contradicts your belief you just say it's because of our "modern eyes".

Thanks for the teaching----about the statement "full of grace." Very good to know when trying to reason with Catholics.

 

[Anastacia]

Quote:
Infact we still say in the creed that we "believe in one holy catholic and Apostollic church,"


Wow, is that right? I didnt know that - so non-Catholics say that too in the creed, how interesting.



Aspen/Selene, peace and love, brother/sister - Can you tell me what Puis X is all about, please?



Mike

I know that aspen and Selene will be glad to explain Pius X to you. I told aspen I was a traditional Catholic, with that he asked me if I belonged to a "schism church like Pius X?" I don't know a whole lot about pope Pius X, but that he was a traditionalist. Not all tradiional Catholics separated themselves from the Vatican. And many traditional Catholics are that way as an individual belief and not part of a group...just a personal conviction type of thing. I don't think one type of Catholic is any worse than the other, they are all false. I just don't like aspen and Selene insisting they know which kind of Catholic I was, even after I told them. Though, if you are going to be a Catholic---one would think being a traditional Catholic is for those more serious about their religion.
Mel Gibson is a traditional Catholic....the kind of Pius X, if I'm not mistaken. Aspen and Selene probably like Mel Gibson's movie The Passion.....and they probably don't go around telling people that that movie was made by an excommunicated Catholic either. ha

 

[Anastacia]

Yes Anastacia, that is quite right and that has show me some thing I had not realised. I looked up Philipians 2:6 which says....who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He was equal with God, but he voluntary gave up all that meant and took the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men etc. That makes it very clear that Mary gave birth to a human Jesus. If it was a God equal Jesus, he would not have needed to relenquish his equality with God and become a servant and take on a likeness to man.

Excellent scripture and explanation for this topic about calling Mary "the Mother of God." If one watched the video I posted earlier, the one with the reigning pope praying to the statue of Mary....it can be seen from what the pope says in the prayer that Mary is put up there with God.

 

[marksman]

If there are any non-Catholics who want an honest dialogue with us, I welcome it.

And we welcome catholics who want an HONEST dialogue with us.

You've made some nice points, I was a Christian before I joined the Catholic Church and I was glad when I realized that we share the same baptism and faith.

Sounds like after you joined the rcc you weren't a christian. You don't share the same baptism and faith. We don't teach infant baptism, but you do.

 

[aspen]

Yes Anastacia, that is quite right and that has show me some thing I had not realised. I looked up Philipians 2:6 which says....who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He was equal with God, but he voluntary gave up all that meant and took the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men etc. That makes it very clear that Mary gave birth to a human Jesus. If it was a God equal Jesus, he would not have needed to relenquish his equality with God and become a servant and take on a likeness to man.

You cannot split the personage of Christ - it is heresy. Christ is 100% God and 100% man. All Christian churches teach this doctrine. It makes sense too - my mother is not only the mother of the traits I inherited from her - I am a new creation.

 

[marksman]

Yes, I agree. We recognize that the Holy Spirit is also with the Protestants. We worship the same God and believe in the Holy Trinity. The Holy Spirit is not just in the Catholic Church.

I have grave doubts about the HS being in the catholic church. The Scriptures say that the HS will lead us into all truth. That being the case, why does the rcc trade so much on heresy?

The HS is not in any church. He inhabits the individual believer who is the temple of the HS. Nowhere in scripture does it say the HS is going to inhabit a religious system or religious buildings.

 

[aspen]

Which is true


Which is true


According to you but not the majority.



We are nothing like you at all.



If that is the case and as you claim we are like you, don't you think it is a bit arrogant to ask if we have the fullness of God/Christ. If we are the same, if you have it we must have it?????



Evidence for the last part of your statement please?



One. I have no idea what the LDS church is. Do they give out free drugs?

Two. What doctrines are you talking about?

LDS is Latter Day Saints - Mormon. LSD is a drug. I have asked repeatedly for people to ask me questions - I even suggested using a question mark. BTW (by the way) accusations are different than questions - "Catholics pray to dead people!" is an accusation - I do not answer accusations. Perhaps you are confusing the many accusations on this thread with actual questions.

 

[marksman]

Are you kidding? Traditional Catholic a schism church? What does the name Traditional mean to you? You bet Traditional Catholics believe the popes are infallible. Didn't you read what I just posted? And you really think I don't know what Catholic means? Get serious.

Yes aspen, get serious and stop being so self righteous.

 

[aspen]

Eph 4:14 so that we no longer may be infants, tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the dishonesty of men, in cunning craftiness, to the wiles of deceit.

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I would not have you ignorant.

2Co 2:11 so that we should not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

No longer may be infants; not have you ignorant; we are not ignorant; be not ignorant......

I don't know where you get this idea that ignorance is the status quo. Methinks you trade in cliches to give you a platform to pronounce irrelevancies of man made philposophy.

hmmm.....I guess you will have to take this up with Anastacia - she told me that being ignorant is fine - why listen to early church theologians - what do they know, right? haha

 

[Anastacia]

You cannot split the personage of Christ - it is heresy. Christ is 100% God and 100% man. All Christian churches teach this doctrine. It makes sense too - my mother is not only the mother of the traits I inherited from her - I am a new creation.

The Jewish Mary is the mother of the human Jesus. You got nerve calling anything heresy. Do you believe God, the Father, has a mother?

 

[marksman]

Why don't you answer the question, Anastacia? How can your group of Traditional Catholics believe the Pope is infallible AND not like the work of John Paul the II?

Seeing as you rarely answer the question, I guess we don't feel any obigation to answer yours.

 

[Anastacia]

hmmm.....I guess you will have to take this up with Anastacia - she told me that being ignorant is fine - why listen to early church theologians - what do they know, right? haha

What do you mean I told you that being ignorant is fine. You didn't hear that from me. But you do seem to give a lot of credit to people with college degrees.....maybe you follow the Catholic religion because you think the popes are smart? lol

 

[aspen]

Quote:
Infact we still say in the creed that we "believe in one holy catholic and Apostollic church,"


Wow, is that right? I didnt know that - so non-Catholics say that too in the creed, how interesting.



Aspen/Selene, peace and love, brother/sister - Can you tell me what Puis X is all about, please?




Mike

This is an incomplete answer but, it is a group of Catholics that believe all the popes after Pius X are heretical - they are against modernism and are not in communion with Rome

 

[marksman]

That's the thing...how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the Pope is infallible and then go against the Pope? The founder of the Traditional Catholics was excommunicated by the Vatican. When one is excommunicated, that means that one is no longer part of the Roman Catholic Church.

Does the name Martin Luther come to mind?

 

[Anastacia]

Seeing as you rarely answer the question, I guess we don't feel any obigation to answer yours.

You are right, Marksman. And when we do answer their questions....they twist them up all over the place.

 

[marksman]

It says nothing about her Christianity, of course, but it sure makes you question her claims about knowing what RCC is all about, based on her time as a RC......

Your self righteousness is showing

 

[Anastacia]

LDS is Latter Day Saints - Mormon. LSD is a drug. I have asked repeatedly for people to ask me questions - I even suggested using a question mark. BTW (by the way) accusations are different than questions - "Catholics pray to dead people!" is an accusation - I do not answer accusations. Perhaps you are confusing the many accusations on this thread with actual questions.

Maybe we want you to find the question,and then think deeply about the answers we give you. We already know why Catholics do the things they do.

 

[aspen]

The Jewish Mary is the mother of the human Jesus. You got nerve calling anything heresy. Do you believe God, the Father, has a mother?

It is heresy

 

[Anastacia]

It is heresy

Do you believe God, the Father has a mother?