Questions For A Catholic

[Selene]

Hmm.....

So how can these traditional catholics claim to believe the Pope is infallible and not like what Pope John Paul II did in the RCC? Doesn't seem to make much sense

That's the thing...how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the Pope is infallible and then go against the Pope? The founder of the Traditional Catholics was excommunicated by the Vatican. When one is excommunicated, that means that one is no longer part of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[aspen]

That's the thing...how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the Pope is infallible and then go against the Pope? The founder of the Traditional Catholics was excommunicated by the Vatican. When one is excommunicated, that means that one is no longer part of the Roman Catholic Church.

Well, it is nice to know where she is getting all her Vatican I focus from.....and her animosity about Apostolic Succession.........it all makes sense now

 

[Selene]

Well, it is nice to know where she is getting all her Vatican I focus from.....and her animosity about Apostolic Succession.........it all makes sense now

Yes, it makes sense. And the problem is...these traditional Catholics are calling themselves "Catholics" and they are not in communion with Rome because they don't accept everything that Rome teaches.

 

[aspen]

Yes, it makes sense. And the problem is...these traditional Catholics are calling themselves "Catholics" and they are not in communion with Rome because they don't accept everything that Rome teaches.

Absolutely - well, like all groups that break away, they believe they are the true Catholic Church - and Rome is apostate - same old story.....



It says nothing about her Christianity, of course, but it sure makes you question her claims about knowing what RCC is all about, based on her time as a RC......

 

[Anastacia]

That's the thing...how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the Pope is infallible and then go against the Pope? The founder of the Traditional Catholics was excommunicated by the Vatican. When one is excommunicated, that means that one is no longer part of the Roman Catholic Church.

There's no such thing as "the founder of the Traditional Catholics."

You say "how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the pope is infallible and then go against the Pope?" Is it really that hard for you?? Because pope John Paul II went against centuries of popes and beliefs. Do you get it now? Your question to me about how can a pope be infallible and then go against the pope---that is what the Catholics said when John Paul II, for the sake of ecumenism, changed some of the teaching of all the other popes before him....just a little, but enough.

 

[Selene]

Absolutely - well, like all groups that break away, they believe they are the true Catholic Church - and Rome is apostate - same old story.....
It says nothing about her Christianity, of course, but it sure makes you question her claims about knowing what RCC is all about, based on her time as a RC......

A true Roman Catholic follows the Holy See. From what I know of the Traditional Catholics, they put more emphasis on membership rather than on faith. They went against the Catechism. They stood against Vatican II and the founder of the Traditonal Catholics (Archbishop Lefebvre) ordained 4 bishops against the orders of the Pope. They are not Roman Catholics.

 

[aspen]

There's no such thing as "the founder of the Traditional Catholics."

You say "how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the pope is infallible and then go against the Pope?" Is it really that hard for you?? Because pope John Paul II went against centuries of popes and beliefs. Do you get it now? Your question to me about how can a pope be infallible and then go against the pope---that is what the Catholics said when John Paul II, for the sake of ecumenism, changed some of the teaching of all the other popes before him....just a little, but enough.

Oh I get it - sure wish you were honest about being apart of an apostate group from the start.

 

[Anastacia]

Absolutely - well, like all groups that break away, they believe they are the true Catholic Church - and Rome is apostate - same old story.....



It says nothing about her Christianity, of course, but it sure makes you question her claims about knowing what RCC is all about, based on her time as a RC......

Oh quit it. The word Jesus used---dense, dull---are you two too much of it?

How's this....I'm going to keep exposing all the falseness of the Roman Catholic Church that I can.

Oh I get it - sure wish you were honest about being apart of an apostate group from the start.

You and Selene PROVED that without Truth....the true Jesus....you don't know what real love is. The way you and Selene twist the truth is proof that you only worship God with your lips, but your heart is far from Him.

 

[aspen]

Goodbye, once again Anastacia.

 

[Selene]

There's no such thing as "the founder of the Traditional Catholics."

You say "how can anyone who claims to be Catholic say that the pope is infallible and then go against the Pope?" Is it really that hard for you?? Because pope John Paul II went against centuries of popes and beliefs. Do you get it now? Your question to me about how can a pope be infallible and then go against the pope---that is what the Catholics said when John Paul II, for the sake of ecumenism, changed some of the teaching of all the other popes before him....just a little, but enough.

Yes, there is a founder of the Traditional Catholics. Your founder was Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and he was excommunicated by the Holy See. A Roman Catholic is not supposed to go against the teachings of the Church, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Canon Laws of the Catholic Church, and the Pope and its Magesterium.

 

[Anastacia]

Hello Mighty Bear,

I agree and I love the quotes you posted. St. Paul says, that the greatest of all is love (1 Corinthians 13:13). Love is even greater than knowledge because God is love and there is nothing higher nor greater than God our Father (1 John 4:8).

Selene

Selene, You try to discount obeying Jesus' commands. You try to say all you need is love. But how do you know what love is, when you don't know Jesus? Jesus says if you love him you will obey his teaching. You deny and go against the Word of God. You don't obey the Truth.

Read what 1 Peter 1:22 says...."Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth...." You have no sincere love, because you don't obey the truth.

Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. 1 Peter 1:22

 

[marksman]

That is not the question I asked. I asked, "Do you have the fullness of Christ?"

No you didn't. You asked if you had the fullness of God.

So, you have a picture of a dead saint and people are looking at it. You want to explain why you have bones of human and animal artifacts in glass cases of your museums and people looking at them? What is the difference?

The difference is that we don't have any museums.

Well, it is my lunch time. I will leave this thread for now. Since you have no questions at all....good-bye!

Solve this one for me Selene. Why is it you keep saying goodbye and then before you can say Jack Robinson, your back again?

That's because you asked him the wrong question. The question is not why Mary is blessed. The question should have been "Who" will call Mary blessed. The answer: All generations wil call me (Mary) blessed.

When you invite people to ask questions there is no such thing as a wrong question.

 

[marksman]

2. Lots of comments about Catholics not answering questions being asked

Which is true

3. Comments dismissing the Catholic answers provided - often with further commentary on how unqualified / uneducated / morally deficient the Catholic members are for providing the responses to questions posted.

Which is true

It is too bad - I was hoping to engage in some meaningful dialog with people who were interested in learning from each other. I was also hoping to get a chance to answer some question that have not been addressed, but there have only been a few and they have all been provided with good Catholic responses.

According to you but not the majority.

If there are any non-Catholics who want an honest dialogue with us, I welcome it. I am not here to convert for you are already Christians like us.

We are nothing like you at all.

Yes, and that is why we have always proclaimed to have the fullness of Christ.

If that is the case and as you claim we are like you, don't you think it is a bit arrogant to ask if we have the fullness of God/Christ. If we are the same, if you have it we must have it?????

I agree with the Pope - all people who follow the doctrine of the Trinity and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are part of the Body of Christ; despite the fact that a minority of my brothers and sisters do not recognize their Catholic brothers and sisters to be Christians.

Evidence for the last part of your statement please?

Well, I guess you share the same views about the Catholic Church as the LDS Church - that is it apostate. Here is the problem - you share many of the same doctrines developed by an apostate church. At least Mormons are consistent enough to reject all Catholic doctrines.

One. I have no idea what the LDS church is. Do they give out free drugs?

Two. What doctrines are you talking about?

 

[marksman]

The Jewish Mary is the mother of the human Jesus. It is not correct to say Mary is the Mother of God. Yes Jesus is God in the flesh. And we know that God the Father doesn't have a mother, for God created everything through Jesus Christ. Catholics exalt Mary, they even pray to Jesus through Mary....that is not biblical.

Yes Anastacia, that is quite right and that has show me some thing I had not realised. I looked up Philipians 2:6 which says....who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, Php 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

He was equal with God, but he voluntary gave up all that meant and took the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men etc. That makes it very clear that Mary gave birth to a human Jesus. If it was a God equal Jesus, he would not have needed to relenquish his equality with God and become a servant and take on a likeness to man.

 

[marksman]

We are all ignorant in the eyes of God - to claim otherwise is arrogant. Not everyone is addressed as "full of grace" or "the mother of our Lord"; Mary is unique in this regard.

Eph 4:14 so that we no longer may be infants, tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the dishonesty of men, in cunning craftiness, to the wiles of deceit.

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I would not have you ignorant.

2Co 2:11 so that we should not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his devices.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

No longer may be infants; not have you ignorant; we are not ignorant; be not ignorant......

I don't know where you get this idea that ignorance is the status quo. Methinks you trade in cliches to give you a platform to pronounce irrelevancies of man made philposophy.

 

[deprofundis]

LDS is an acronym for "Latter Day Saints," which refers to Mormonism.

I'm not a Catholic, but I've found the answers given by them to be perfectly satisfactory. They explained what they believed and why. The first post claims that this thread is not for Catholic dogma, but for the posters' personal beliefs, so it's fallacious to declare them to have insufficient knowledge; they know their own views, and that's all they claim to express.

 

[Selene]

We are nothing like you at all.

Hello Marksman,

Peace be with you. I'm glad that you are recovering nicely. I've been praying for your recovery. God bless you and I love you, my brother.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Bowing and Worship are two totaly different things.

Many here will disagree with me on what I'm about to say. That's fine and I completely understand why.

As some know I train Judo. (I don't go to the budhist place as I was originaly intending, I found a place that has no religious undertones) A few others on this forum have also trained martial arts. Here's some of the etiquite.

Before stepping on to the mat we all must bow to the mat. When we step off the mat we must bow to the mat. Before walking into Sensei's place (office or the like) We must bow. Before training we must first bow to a picture of Jigaro Kano (the guy who invented Judo). After we bow to the picture of Kano, We all bow to the Sensei's who are standing on the opposite side of the mat. We lower ranks must walk between Sensei and another Judoka who are talking we must bow. When going to talk to Sensei we must bow before we speak. After we're done talking to Sensei we must bow. At the end of the class we bow again to the picture of Kano and bow again to Sensei. Before and after we work with another Judoka we bow to eachother.

If we're doing Newaza (grappling) we even have a kneeling bow. Before doing Kata we bow kneeling. After Newaza and Kata we bow kneeling.

Bowing to the picture of Jigaro Kano seems like worship to some. It's not. We bow to the picture as a form of respect for the man he was and what he created. Much like people putting flowers on graves and remembering dead loved ones.

Bowing to the mat is a sign of respect for the place we train. We don't worship the mat.

We call our teacher Sensei because Sensei means teacher in Japanese. It doesn't mean worshipfull master. We bow to Sensei out of respect for his rank and his teaching.

We bow to eachother as a sign of respect.

We do all of this to show respect for others around us and for our dojo. It's a reminder to think of the others in a higher regard and value the teachings and memories of people who came before us. It's very humbling.

Now, Bowing in Japan is the equivalant of a handshake in the west. But, let's not forget to mention here,,,,,

Bowing to kings, queens, princesses, emperors, princes, etc. Salutes in the military. Handshakes with other people. It's all a sign of respect for others and the things they have done or will do.

I am certain that when I see Jesus the bow that I do will be different than the ones I do at the dojo.

 

[mcorba]

Quote:
Infact we still say in the creed that we "believe in one holy catholic and Apostollic church,"


Wow, is that right? I didnt know that - so non-Catholics say that too in the creed, how interesting.



Aspen/Selene, peace and love, brother/sister - Can you tell me what Puis X is all about, please?




Mike

 

[TexUs]

It is a stretch if you are not a member of the Orthodox, Coptic, or RCC; but what is more of a stretch? A translation that was taught early in church history or one that is part of a challenge to the established rule? which took 1500 years to be brought into focus?

*NEWS FLASH*We have not had these translations for 1500 years, try again.

The problem with this idea is that you are assuming that all scholars unanimously believe this translation to be valid, which denies the many scholars outside Protestant / Evangelical circles and even some within. Strong's is a fine reference,but it definitely represents a minority viewpoint within Christianity.

Can you prove any of that? The only translations that have it translated this way are founded and started by...... surprise, surprise... Catholics.
Seems you have the majority vs minority confused.

As I described above, a different term is used when describing Stephen.

NO, THERE ISN'T! How hard is it to understand that the Greek wording is EXACTLY THE SAME in both of these texts?
There are no "different terms" applied.If you want to see what is original, look to the original Greek, not the "definition according to aspen".

I will have to look in to this.

Sure you will. To ensure you actually do, I'll post it.
John 1:14
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.
Acts 6:8
Στέφανος δὲ πλήρης χάριτος καὶ δυνάμεως ἐποίει τέρατα καὶ σημεῖα μεγάλα ἐν τῷ λαῷ.
"full grace"... These are exactly the same. If you want to maintain Christ as sinless and perfect and elevated and blessed especially among people you must also do the same to Stephen (unless, of course, you can admit the Scripture doesn't actually support what you're claiming- then this entire argument goes away).

This "full grace" phraise is NOT in Luke 1:28 anywhere:καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ.

So, aspen, you've now seen the Original Greek these were written in. Would you like to call John and Luke liars? Or would you like to admit your translations are fatally biased and flawed and do not support "full of grace"?

I think we tend to read Jesus' and Paul's statements with modern eyes

Ah so when Scripture contradicts your belief you just say it's because of our "modern eyes".