Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

If you have faith, why keep exercising it?

Having faith is just the continuation of the believing you started on the day you first believed God. Believing is how you accessed the efficacy of the blood of Christ sacrificed on the altar in heaven. As long as that believing does not cease your access to the mercy seat in heaven where Christ's blood was sacrificed does not cease either.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Bingo that is the true osas

And so osas agrees with anti-osas that believing must continue in order for a person to be saved when Jesus comes back. That's the thing that osas and anti-osas agree on and which the Bible tells us to do—continue believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

no, that’s not the point. Once again, the law is not part of what I want you to see..anyway, Never mind, I see why you seem to think you can lose salvation now. You do Not understand what a person actually has to become to come to faith, so it would easily see why you think they could lose faith

I know that access to God is dependent on transformation. Mt. Sinai represents the covenant of law (Galatians 4:24). Access to God via Mount Sinai doesn't provide that transformation and so access to God that way—the way of the law—is not possible. It is forbidden. But access to God via Mount Zion is possible because that way represents the new way of faith and the transforming power of the New Covenant.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

do you think that which has been cut off can be grafted back in? Do you think that which has been cut off from the body can be joined back to the body?

No. Not for a specific person who has been cut off. It's possible in the sense of a nation of people being grafted back in. Because those are different people being grafted back in than those who were cut out.

I think the danger here is judging whether or not we ourselves, if we seem to have fallen away, have actually been cut out of the tree. That's a serious situation and I don't think we should be quick to come to that conclusion about ourselves.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Must? Or Will? Thats where OSAS and "anti-OSAS" (didn't realize you saw yourself that way) disagree.

Osas and anti-osas both agree that you MUST continue to believe to the very end. Osas is the one that says the true believer WILL continue to believe to the very end, but it doesn't matter what one thinks about that. Let's just do what the Bible exhorts us to do—continue believing to the very end. That's what matters.

 

[Behold]

It is offensive to you.

cleanseth (katharizo) is in the aorist present active indicative...
.

Clueless, Cut and Paste fakery.
You really need to think about what you are doing.

 

[Behold]

And you get born again by having faith.

You are born again by God's Holy Spirit.

faith is a word that means you have trust in you heart.
If Christ was never come, and you had faith, where is your "born again"?
It would not exist.
See, faith is not the Savior.
God is the Savior.

 

[Behold]

And so we know that's not the faith that justifies.

God justifies, not faith.
God justifies because you have faith.
He justifies the instant you do, and you are born again.
Faith is not the justifier, cultist.
The Blood of Jesus, is the Justifier, is the REDEMPTION.
God accepts faith, ONCE< to apply the Justification.
wake up.
Your theology is dark and lost.

 

[Behold]

Faith is trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin, not trusting in faith. You've created a strawman argument. But I understand why it is necessary for you do that.

i created about 100 responses to you , that you can't comprehend, because your legalism denies you any spiritual understanding.

i show you that the Blood is the Justifier, and you tell me that Faith is the Justifier.
So, you have some real spiritual blindness that is compounded by your fleshy enjoyment of arguing for the fun of it.

 

[Taken]

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely c those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Hebrews 7:23-25
​

He keeps me saved by always interceding for me.

* That is the POINT...OSAS;
- Once a man IS "saved";
- that mans Salvation is to the uttermost complete;
- that man IS "saved" forever
- that man IS KEPT "saved" forever;
- BY 'He who liveth forever".

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[23] And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
[24] But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
[25] Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The man IN DANGER of LOSING his Salvation;
* Is the man, (our prime example) Judas.
* following Jesus, Hearing the Word of God,
* (And every man Hearing the Word of God, are Gifted small measures of Faith,)
* (called a TASTE, of Gods Word, a TASTE of Gods gift of Faith, a TASTE of Gods blessings)

* And should such a man WALK AWAY, from Hearing, Receiving a TASTE of Gods gift of Faith, Gods TASTE of blessings....
* This man is thereafter called:
* Fallen from Faith.
* This mans Salvation IS IN JEOPARDY.
* This man, Never Heartfully Repented or Heartfully Confessed BELIEF.
* This man, Rejects, the Lords Offering of Salvation.
* This man, Physically Dies in his sin.
* This man, Has LOST his Salvation;
* That the Lord, bought and paid for that man, and Offered for that man to receive...
* and that man rejected "receiving" his Salvation.

Salavation IS an "OFFERED" gift from the Lord.
That Gift of Salvation, IS NEVER FORCED on a man.
The man MUST "CHOOSE" to Accept the Gift;
OR the man "SHALL" Lose that Gift.

BECAUSE: Bottomline:
Matt 12:
[30] He that IS NOT with me;
IS AGAINST me...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

That is what I've been saying. You have to be a believer to be saved.

By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. 1 Corinthians 15:2​

Same again.
The Gospel is not the savior.
Faith is not the savior.

God is the savior, who through faith in the Gospel, SAVES YOU.

Can't see it, can you.
Too busy trying to keep yourself saved to be able to listen.

 

[mailmandan]

It’s time to learn who the natural branches are.

The Israelites were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it appears that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but that doesn't mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ. Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ has non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know that access to God is dependent on transformation. Mt. Sinai represents the covenant of law (Galatians 4:24). Access to God via Mount Sinai doesn't provide that transformation and so access to God that way—the way of the law—is not possible. It is forbidden. But access to God via Mount Zion is possible because that way represents the new way of faith and the transforming power of the New Covenant.

The point of the whole thing is that everyone from adam to moses had absolutely no access to God. If any of them touched that mountain or came into the presence of God they would die.

Your trying to make it a law issue. It is not. But since you can not get the law out of your head. You can not understand my point.

Jesus said we must become "poor" In spirit to enter the kingdom of God. The particular greek word here is the knowledge that we are totally outcast. Totally unable to come to Gods presence. Totally bankrupt or poor. We are at the point we need to beg, because of our lack of wealth.

This is what brought the tax collector to his knee unable to even look up. Because he had the same fear of the people of Israel. The fear of knowing if you even came in the presence of God you would die.

That is why you will never convince me people can lose faith. You do not go from this point of total inability, Humility knowing if you even touched a mountain where God resided you would die. and falling on your knees calling out to God after being brought by God to this point. And all of a sudden declare that you no longer believe in this fact. Unless you never really believed it in the first place.

I do have a suggestion for you. Next time someone asks you a question and says they want to make a point. And tells you that your response was misapplied because you did not answer the question (like saying the law is not part of my context) then do not keep trying to insert that back in. Its disrespectful. Takes away from the point that person was trying to get you to see. And just shows a lack of trying to understand.

Again, Thank you. I now understand why you think belief can be lost.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No. Not for a specific person who has been cut off.

Then why does it say in the word in many places to turn them over to satan that may learn to Not blaspheme the name of the Lord? Or turn them over that the flesh may destroy but the spirit might be saved? Why does God turn them over to a reprobate mind? Why did Paul say (inspired by the Holy Spirit) put them without the body? Why does the word say if need be he departed for a season THAT thou should receive him for ever ...not now as a servant , but above a servant, a brother beloved? Philemon 1:14-16 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. [15] For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; [16] Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

or how about when Jesus Christ told the man ‘I say go make friends with the unrighteous mammon so when you fail’ They may receive (welcome) you into (His body) eternal habitations...FOR I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:7


Luke 15:9-10 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. [10] Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

could also say the withered hand Jesus Christ by the Power of God restored whole in their sight ...shows that cut off and withered...it is not impossible for God to restore and make whole.

 

[Empyrean]

This is one more thread representing II Peter 3:16 -
They struggle with the scriptures unto their own destruction.

Once saved always saved? The people here don't even know what salvation is.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

OSAS ...not sure if I’m OSAS and not sure if I’m Christian. I’m not even sure what is the definition of a Christian. Is it men’s definition or God’s? Were those who nailed him to the cross “Christian”? They were wearing the decked out robes and the crowns? Christian or hypocrites ...not sure which I would rather be defined as by men. OSAS makes me think of Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

who is the above to? If only to those which are in Christ Jesus our Lord...then why are those saying they are in Christ Jesus our Lord saying they are not persuaded nothing can separate them from the love of God?

‘But let every man be persuaded in his own mind.” 2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.


Yet OSAS...Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 1 Corinthians 10:12 which seems to go with: after pride (boasting of a false gift) then comes the fall.

May sound like it doesn’t fit the topic of OSAS but remember that man who had gathered so much goods he had no where to bestow all those goods...saying I know what I will do I’ll tear down my barn and build a bigger and better barn to display all my goods...then came ‘you fool, this night your soul is required then who will your goods belong to?’

“For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live...”

James 4:10-15 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. [11] Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. [12] There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? [13] Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: [14] Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. [15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And so osas agrees with anti-osas that believing must continue in order for a person to be saved when Jesus comes back. That's the thing that osas and anti-osas agree on and which the Bible tells us to do—continue believing.

No

we do not agree.

WHy do you keep insisting this when it is not true?

 

[marks]

Do you take him at ALL his word?

Or just the words that make you feel good?

Before I answer the rest of the post . . . let's just get this out of the way . . . Must you?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Well once saved always saved (eternal security) is the only biblical doctrine concerning salvation.

You have obviously not been paying attention to every post in this thread. For there is biblical substantiation for the concept that people can fall away from faith in Jesus (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off from salvation in Jesus (Romans 11:20-22).

Anyone who says they they, having been reborn, can then become unreborn, that's what they are in effect saying, that they can sin their way out of salvation.

Obviously, if we sin willfully after having come to the full knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains (and the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is a sacrifice for sin, Hebrews 10:12).

So, whatever that willful sin is, if you commit it, you have sinned your way out of salvation.

Having received the reconcilitions and having been reborn God's Own spirit children, some would have us to believe that those sins may again separate us from God?

Makes no sense to me!

There is at least one sin that may again separate you from God....willful sin...whatever that may be defined as.

I truly pray and wish that folks would return to the first true and pure faith . If so be they had it to start with .
Today is the day for any who are in error to cease from it . Start fresh and anew and dont look back .
Let us do all things that Honor HE who has saved us . And let us exhort one another daily , lest any does become
hardened through the deceitfulness of sin . Endure faithful unto HE who has saved us .

Yes; and the way to do this is to stay in God's word and exhort one another daily with the word, lest any of us be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin; and depart from the living God because of an evil heart of unbelief.

do you think that which has been cut off can be grafted back in? Do you think that which has been cut off from the body can be joined back to the body?

Personally, I think it can (Ezekiel 33:11-20, 1 John 3:6). If someone ceases to abide, all they need to do is repent of their sins and they will be abiding again.

You really need to think about what you are doing.

I would say the same to you, @Behold.

Your teaching is conducive towards people adopting a theology where they will be deceiving themselves so that the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8); in that you deny indwelling sin in your theology. No doubt you will do it again in response to this post.

God justifies, not faith.
God justifies because you have faith.
He justifies the instant you do, and you are born again.
Faith is not the justifier, cultist.
The Blood of Jesus, is the Justifier, is the REDEMPTION.
God accepts faith, ONCE< to apply the Justification.
wake up.
Your theology is dark and lost.

Your theology is dark and lost.

You would give people the option of turning away from the faith, and you tell them that they will still be saved if they do.

If that is untrue (and it is untrue), then you are giving people a false assurance and if they bank on what you are saying and depart from the faith, they will be eternally lost. Thus you are contributing to souls going to hell for all of eternity.

I wouldn't want to be you on the day of judgment.

i show you that the Blood is the Justifier, and you tell me that Faith is the Justifier.
So, you have some real spiritual blindness that is compounded by your fleshy enjoyment of arguing for the fun of it.

What tells you that the blood is the justifier? is it not this verse?

Rom 5:9, Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

So, I will agree with you that His blood is the justifier; because that scripture says we are justified by His blood.

Consider.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So, if His blood is the justifier because we are justified by His blood; how is faith also not the justifier; since we are justified by faith?

But even though I have shown you logically why your doctrine is faulty, I know that you will persist in believing in your doctrine.

For it is written,

2Ti 3:13, But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

That is why you will never convince me people can lose faith.

It should be clear that those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can in fact fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22). This would indicate that they lose faith; since if they continue to have faith, they continue to be saved.

 

[Wrangler]

It should be clear that those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can in fact fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22).

I wonder what response the OSAS crowd could give to these passages. (Sure, the temptation is great to sweep these verses aside and replace it with verses that support their doctrine).