Let me put it this way...
If those who do not believe are not Jesus' sheep, and Jesus only died for His sheep, then does it not follow that those who do not currently believe, Jesus did not die for them?
Jesus died for ALL
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If those who do not believe are not Jesus' sheep, and Jesus only died for His sheep, then does it not follow that those who do not currently believe, Jesus did not die for them?
Lazarus was made an Example for a Lesson men were taught, and then could observe the teaching coming into fruition.
Men understand Death of a Body.
A Living Body Lives, can speak, hear, feel, smell, see... Senses active.
A Body that ceases Living, knows nothing, does nothing.
Lazarus' Body ceased living, and was buried BY men.
Family members were concerned, IF ONLY JESUS had Arrived to their home SOONER, Lazarus' would not have had to Die.
John 11:
[11] These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
[24] Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
[43] And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
The Lesson IS:
ALL physically Dead Body's, ARE in a SLEEP state, knowing nothing doing nothing.
Sleep, IS parallel to A Living Body, that Rests, THEN IS Risen up, BY the power OF A.BODY.
A Dead Body, IS Risen up BY THE POWER of God.
When Jesus spoke calling for Lazarus to come forth... HOW DID HIS BODY come forth, since HIS BODY was DEAD, and could HEAR NOTHING?
BEFORE Jesus Spoke..."Lazarus come forth"...
Jesus Twice "groaned"...(speaking to God within Himself)
Once...when concern of the sister, who wished Jesus had arrived earlier to save Lazarus.
Again...when Jesus was Speaking TO LAZARUS' "SOUL", to Return to HIS DEAD BODY.
The LESSON is:
*When Body's DIE, they Rest, meaning, THEY Rest without Feeling.
* SLEEP, of a Dead BODY, reveals, Body's SHALL rise up Again.
* Living Souls DEPART OUT of Dying Bodies.
(Fact from Earlier Scripture)
* It is BY Gods POWER, A Living Soul IS RETURNED TO DEAD BODY.
(Fact from Earlier Scripture)
* It Was AT Jesus' REQUEST, For Lazarus' Living Soul RETURN to his BODY.
* Once Lazarus' Living Soul WAS RETURNED to his BODY;
* Lazarus' BODY was able to Hear Jesus' Command TO RISE UP, and come forth out of his Body's sleep.
* WITH Lazarus' Living soul back IN HIS BODY...His BODY resumed being alive.
( ^ This Occured Before, with another person, WITHOUT OBSERVERS.
The situation WITH Lazarus, WAS Expressly WITH a crowd of Observers TO SEE).
ADDITIONAL LESSON ~
[24] Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
What Martha KNEW, was TRUE, but LIMITED.
Yes...
Bodies SHALL BE RAISED at the LAST DAY.
AND.....SOME BODY'S....
SHALL BE RAISED; BEFORE the LAST DAY.
....And THAT Background Knowledge, (who, why, when, how), is in Scripture.
AND YES...Lazarus, experienced Physical Death AGAIN.
Glory to God,
Taken
Perhaps. But that is the truth and that is what will be.
The lost sheep, for as long as they are not yet found, remain to be lost. And lost as they are, they are still counted among the unbelievers, the pagans, the atheists. But their time will come that they will hear the voice of the Good Shepherd and will be found and will be brought home.
Tong
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Jesus DIED for ALL.
Jesus' BODILY Death was OFFERED to ALL.
Not ALL accept his DEATH.
His Sheep, ACCEPT his DEATH.
Let me put it the way Jesus exactly said it, “ you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep“. If you have any problem with that, your problem is not with me but with Jesus.
It’s like you saying to Jesus, if those who do not believe you are not your sheep, then you only died for your sheep, then does it not follow that those who do not currently believe you, you did not die for them?
Tong
R2618
No that's what I'm saying to you...because I believe that your logic is faulty.
Is it not true that those who believe not have the opportunity to believe in the future? But you say they are not Jesus' sheep; and that therefore Jesus didn't die for them. That would mean that they are not of the elect.
So then, according to this logic, all of those who do not currently believe are not of the elect and Jesus didn't die for them. So they cannot be saved, being not of the elect.
And therefore the only people who can be saved, are those who are already saved.
Thus, you make null and void the statement of Jesus that "The Son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost."
No doubt...
Sometimes you have to proclaim a faulty doctrine for a brief moment in order to show why that doctrine is faulty in the sight of the Lord.
<<<But you say they are not Jesus' sheep;>>>
It is not me who said “you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep“. Those are the exact words of Jesus. That is plain enough for me.
So, tell us, what do you hear Jesus is saying there?
Tong
R2619
Do you think that Jesus died only for His sheep rather than for the sins of the whole world?
If that is the case, then when Jesus says, "you do not believe because you are not of my sheep" He is saying that He didn't die for those who don't currently believe in Him. They are not of His elect; and therefore they cannot be saved even if they seek to come to Christ.
Therefore, believing not, if it means that you are not of His sheep; then those who believe not are not of His sheep and Jesus didn't die for them; they are not of his elect. And therefore those who don't currently believe can't be saved; because He didn't die for them: they are not of His elect.
Thus, Jesus' statement that "The Son of man came to seek and to save that which was lost;" is null and void.
Apparently you do have a problem with what Jesus said there.
Jesus said “you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep“. Those are the exact words of Jesus.
So, tell us, what do you hear Jesus is saying there?
Tong
R2620
Jhn 9:27, He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
No, I just don’t want to go to another topic when you have yet to answer the question asked of you.
Tong
R2622
I’ve done that. And I find none. It’s a very straightforward and simple question about the simple and plain statement of Jesus there, that is, “you do not believe because you are not of His sheep.” Even anyone who reads your supposed answer to the question, as to what Jesus is saying there, one will find nothing in answer to it.
But if you say that is your answer, then that is you answer. So be it. However I do not know how to respond to such an answer. Do you want me to answer your question the way you answered my question?
Tong
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And the apostles are the church that Christ sent with the same power mission and authority
Yes, but that is not what Jesus said that which they do not believe in the passage under consideration, John 10:24-26, where he told them “you do not believe because you are not of my sheep”.
Tong
R2626
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